India wants second line of fighter jets: Report

[Stephen Cohen]

So you think Gripen would be picked over F-16 because it has commonality with LCA MK1A?

How does Sweden as a country support strategic interests of India? With FGFA, RAFALE & F-16 procurements India would keep Russia, France & US (all UNSC veto members) on it's side. Sweden is a light weight actor in International politics.

Dear @dadeechi

If your prediction about F 16 does not come true then will you do the same sacrifice as
your Namesake Dadeechi Rishi did

 

[dadeechi]

Firstly, you already assumed Mk.2 is dead. Clear that why & how it is dead? And how you assuming F-16 is chosen, any authenticity in this?

All MIG series would be decommissioned by 2024 when LCA MK2 is supposed to be ready. There is a reason why a compromise has been reached and MK1A is being pushed.

As I said MK2 in the current configuration does not have any significance. They need to drastically change the requirements to keep it relevant. They could still call it MK2 for Political correctness, if need be.

Dear @dadeechi

If your prediction about F 16 does not come true then will you do the same sacrifice as
your Namesake Dadeechi Rishi did

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

All MIG series would be decommissioned by 2024 when LCA MK2 is supposed to be ready. There is a reason why a compromise has been reached and MK1A is being pushed.

As I said MK2 in the current configuration does not have any significance. They need to drastically change the requirements to keep it relevant. They could still call it MK2 for Political correctness, if need be.

But Mk.1 & Mk.1A already started to replace MiG-27.
Current configuration of MK2? Did the first prototype even flown? How you know Mk2 configuration? Or you have some very deep relations in ADA?

And, btw, I never said India buy Gripen NG. Read the above reply again.

 

[zebra7]

Correct. MK1A would make those 6 squadrons.

LCA Mk2 would not see the light.

Dadeechi just clear your mind brother.

1. F-16 when was designed was planned to be replace by 1990 by USAF, but due to the funds many upgradation plans like Phalcon SLEP program was started to be able to useful as 4th Gen. fighter plane. For the customer many MLU plans like PEACE-DRIVE -1/2 program was started. Yes there are few sales of F-16 like Block 52 and block 60 to some countries, but this plane future is not more, in the light of F-35, for which so many countries are waiting in line in desperation to replace their F-16's. And after F-35, the whole concentration of the OEMs would be on F-35, means no further substantial upgradation of the teen.

2. How can IAF could induct F-16 when it was rejected during MMRCA.

3. Mr. Parikar statement, which was twisted to the death by every possible corner, was actually -- he was referring to the MK-1 of N-LCA.

4. There is no doubt that LCA MK-2 won't be build. Actually MK-2 would be the test bed for our AMCA, and lot of things have to be achieved regarding Avionics for the 5th Gen. Bird.

5. Regarding 5th Gen Stealth Bird -- To create a stealth Airframe is not difficult, but the real challenge is in the Power Plant and the Avionics.

6. For the Avionics -- Google for the MDPU, the next generation avionics artitecture and India is fortunate that it will have 3 birds that have such technology aka Mirrage 2000-5 UPG, Rafale F3, and Hawk Trainer. This is also used in F-22, and the F-35.

7. With new technology been developed, you don't need MIG-27 for the ground attack, and CAS platform, rather a Combat HAWK been planned by BAe and HAL is more than enough, which could drop the LGP bomb from high altitude, guided by laser designator held by a soldier on the forward front.

8. N-LCA Tejas MK-1 or LCA Trainer equipped with IRST device on its nose instead of FCR Radar could also be useful, why can't that is the new line of fighter jet.

All MIG series would be decommissioned by 2024 when LCA MK2 is supposed to be ready. There is a reason why a compromise has been reached and MK1A is being pushed.

Really --- MIG-29 UPG ??

As I said MK2 in the current configuration does not have any significance. They need to drastically change the requirements to keep it relevant. They could still call it MK2 for Political correctness, if need be.

MK-2 is actually the Naval variant of LCA.

But Mk.1 & Mk.1A already started to replace MiG-27.
Current configuration of MK2? Did the first prototype even flown? How you know Mk2 configuration? Or you have some very deep relations in ADA?

Already explained above, Combat Hawk can fulfill MIG-27 Role.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

Already explained above, Combat Hawk can fulfill MIG-27 Role.

Combat Hawk is interim solution, not replacement.

 

[zebra7]

Combat Hawk is interim solution, not replacement.

With change in time, and technology the tactics, and doctrine have to be updated and changed.

 

[Abingdonboy]

but with 1 assembly line can HAL reach 25/yr? I don't think so

It's doable with HAL outsourcing to the private sector and acting as a final intergrator.

I guess, Rafale are too costly. Hence, I guess GOI will stop at 36. Moreover if it were Rafale this news would not come. I guess the second line will be from Americans. By buying from Americans, Modi is buying geopolitical influence.

Hahaha, if someone is worred abotu cost then the LAST thing you should do is induct two DIFFERENT fighter types.

Frankly my friend, the notion the Rafale is "too costly" should be put to bed now- the GoI has declared the opposite.

Already explained above, Combat Hawk can fulfill MIG-27 Role.

Not really bro, the MiG-27's main role was for CAS and for that it was well suited (like the A-10) with a chin mounted gatling gun, the Combat Hawk will have nothing of the kind- the ability to carry a few PGM or unguided rockets makes that platform very limited indeed especially as it is subsonic. IMHO, the Combat Hawk is not being developed with any Indian user in mind but for the export market- no Indian user has shown any interest in it whatsoever. The Hawk's primary role will remain training. MiG-27s will be replaced by the Rafale, MiG-21 by the LCA and the MKI will replace a combination of the two.

 

[dadeechi]

But Mk.1 & Mk.1A already started to replace MiG-27.
Current configuration of MK2? Did the first prototype even flown? How you know Mk2 configuration? Or you have some very deep relations in ADA?

And, btw, I never said India buy Gripen NG. Read the above reply again.

LCA MK1A cannot replace all MIG-21s and MIG-27s.

200+ F-16s will replace the remaining.

 

[Taygibay]

Rafale will replace the others too, Jags and M2Ks, etc. I think that once the kinks
are ironed out, especially FCS, the operational Tejas could go out for CAS with a
centerline gun pod, a pair of fuel tanks, AASM/Brimstone/local mid wing and either a
small rocket pod or AAMs for self-protection far out. A nose mounted IRST and go?

If Tejas did the job of the MiG-21s and decent CAS, it would be a success in the end.
And then the second line for it could be warranted?

Good day, Tay.

 

[AugenBlick]

It's doable with HAL outsourcing to the private sector and acting as a final intergrator.

Buddy I will give you some insider info.
India's reputed brand OEM can produce army trucks @ 7 per DAY. If push come to shove 12 per day is the maximum their assembly line can make.
EDIT: What I mean is this is the state of private sector ... do you think HAL will be better considering how easy to make a truck is.

 

[dadeechi]

F-16 when was designed was planned to be replace by 1990 by USAF, but due to the funds many upgradation plans like Phalcon SLEP program was started to be able to useful as 4th Gen. fighter plane. For the customer many MLU plans like PEACE-DRIVE -1/2 program was started. Yes there are few sales of F-16 like Block 52 and block 60 to some countries, but this plane future is not more, in the light of F-35, for which so many countries are waiting in line in desperation to replace their F-16's. And after F-35, the whole concentration of the OEMs would be on F-35, means no further substantial upgradation of the teen.

Neither am I claiming that F-16s are the latest & greatest nor am I advocating procuring one vs. the other. I am just sharing the news. Having said that F-16 is still decent plane in India scenario.

How can IAF could induct F-16 when it was rejected during MMRCA.

Because F-16s procurement is not part of MMRCA but part of DTTI initiative.

Mr. Parikar statement, which was twisted to the death by every possible corner, was actually -- he was referring to the MK-1 of N-LCA.

But IAF's LCA MK2 was born based on IN N-LCA

There is no doubt that LCA MK-2 won't be build. Actually MK-2 would be the test bed for our AMCA, and lot of things have to be achieved regarding Avionics for the 5th Gen. Bird.

N-LCA Tejas MK-1 or LCA Trainer equipped with IRST device on its nose instead of FCR Radar could also be useful, why can't that is the new line of fighter jet.

I totally agree that LCA MK2 would be a test bed for AMCA. The issue is with the timing when it would be ready.

Really --- MIG-29 UPG ??

I was referring MIG-27s and MIG-27s

MK-2 is actually the Naval variant of LCA.

Agree.

 

[Spectre]

Rafale will replace the others too, Jags and M2Ks, etc. I think that once the kinks
are ironed out, especially FCS, the operational Tejas could go out for CAS with a
centerline gun pod, a pair of fuel tanks, AASM/Brimstone/local mid wing and either a
small rocket pod or AAMs for self-protection far out. A nose mounted IRST and go?

If Tejas did the job of the MiG-21s and decent CAS, it would be a success in the end.
And then the second line for it could be warranted?

Good day, Tay.

Good analysis but expectations from Tejas is much more, IAF is pushing for it to be mini Rafale with reduced range and payload. If CAS was the sole requirement and then we could have been done with Tejas much earlier without constant shifting of goal-posts.

 

[zebra7]

Because F-16s procurement is not part of MMRCA but part of DTTI initiative.

Short answer Make In India of F-16 does not automatically means inducted by IAF period.

HAL chief statement -- F-16 assembly line in India not attractive.

TATA can make deal with the LM to build F-16 with full authority of the LM in India for the international Market ?? Which market ?? only you/ or your source can tell ??

Does your source is the Chaiwalla source near HAL Banglore ??

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

Neither am I claiming that F-16s are the latest & greatest nor am I advocating procuring one vs. the other. I am just sharing the news. Having said that F-16 is still decent plane in India scenario.



Because F-16s procurement is not part of MMRCA but part of DTTI initiative.




But IAF's LCA MK2 was born based on IN N-LCA



I totally agree that LCA MK2 would be a test bed for AMCA. The issue is with the timing when it would be ready.




I was referring MIG-27s and MIG-27s



Agree.

Firstly let me punch hole in your so called story, which is your story and no other claiming this.

How you come with figure 200? You have proof or you also firing blank shots in air? Do you know how many exercises IAF do to check the requirements?

You think MMRCA 126 or 189 figure coming from heaven? Why not 130 or 190?

And on F-16, any requirement coming from IAF or MoD? Or this requirement coming from your laptop.

Please , don't quote me again with your idiocies.

 

[#hydra#]

With change in time, and technology the tactics, and doctrine have to be updated and changed.

But not to be degraded. Hawk is having a small inherint problem. Its a trainer aircraft. I do agree that one trainer aircraft named gnat has mase wonders for IAF in past,but....