India, US rush to ink logistics pact; Parrikar’s trip rescheduled to help deal

[Wet Shirt Contest]

India should maintain a distance from USA, sooner or later USA will see rise of India as a threat to its supremacy.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@hellfire SShhhh

A sample to understand what it says ..

@Nilgiri - Bang on the money but look at the point 5. Beautifully omitted is surveillance Radars or such type of tracking instruments..
SO what if such a tracking device finds its way to A&N and may be in west Lakshdeep side..

 

[Echo_419]

India doesn't get access to top tier US technology and US bases (on same terms US will use ours)?

Look at some point you have to bite the bullet and pick a side to accelerate military and tech development at the highest level.

You do a disservice to yourself in thinking India will become overly-dependent on the US or will be its lackey.

India is way too large for that.

Have you for example looked at how the US and Russia conducted relations under the Yeltsin regime? Why do you think that regime acquiesed to US demands not to sell the 2nd round of cryo engines to India? It was because there was a real push to get a semi-formal alliance going between them...and it was gathering quite a lot of momentum at one point. Now when Putin came to power in late 90s, he put the brake on it a bit and then really reversed it later....do you think India would be unable to do the same should it feel it needs to?

Even the UK doesn't get top tier US tech

 

[Shankranthi]

India doesn't get access to top tier US technology and US bases (on same terms US will use ours)?

Look at some point you have to bite the bullet and pick a side to accelerate military and tech development at the highest level.

You do a disservice to yourself in thinking India will become overly-dependent on the US or will be its lackey.

India is way too large for that.

Have you for example looked at how the US and Russia conducted relations under the Yeltsin regime? Why do you think that regime acquiesed to US demands not to sell the 2nd round of cryo engines to India? It was because there was a real push to get a semi-formal alliance going between them...and it was gathering quite a lot of momentum at one point. Now when Putin came to power in late 90s, he put the brake on it a bit and then really reversed it later....do you think India would be unable to do the same should it feel it needs to?

The flip side is that this becomes a new gateway for CIA to infiltrate India.

People are not aware but most nations have the largest spy network in "friendly countries". E.g. Mossad has a huge network in India. Especially in GoI / MoD. KGB had a huge network in India in the past.

So one of the Risks and Action point would be to make our own agencies aware and alert. (easier said than done).

Russia could oppose US because it aligned itself with China. Even then Russian economy shrunk last year.

@hellfire SShhhh

A sample to understand what it says ..

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@Nilgiri - Bang on the money but look at the point 5. Beautifully omitted is surveillance Radars or such type of tracking instruments..
SO what if such a tracking device finds its way to A&N and may be in west Lakshdeep side..

You don't need LEMOA for that

 

[Nilgiri]

Even the UK doesn't get top tier US tech

Its all relative. No country is going to part with A++++ stuff, I'm talking about just stuff in regular A classification...right now at best India can buy B category stuff from the west (who like it or not has the US as their leader). Yes I would put even the phalcon radar as B+ category. That is the threshold basically....and its mostly stand alone purchase as well because of it.

India has to come to some agreement with the US if it wants to be a major world power in less than 50 years. I can tell you that much. Russians are not going to do it. Europe isn't either.

Its not ideal to say "we shouldn't" because of such and such....when you do not provide an alternative.

The flip side is that this becomes a new gateway for CIA to infiltrate India.

People are not aware but most nations have the largest spy network in "friendly countries". E.g. Mossad has a huge network in India. Especially in GoI / MoD. KGB had a huge network in India in the past.

So one of the Risks and Action point would be to make our own agencies aware and alert. (easier said than done).

Russia could oppose US because it aligned itself with China. Even then Russian economy shrunk last year.

Yup, India has to of course take all the precautions needed. I am pretty sure the higher ups already have an action plan to put into place if/when LEMOA signing happens.

 

[Shankranthi]

Yup, India has to of course take all the precautions needed. I am pretty sure the higher ups already have an action plan to put into place if/when LEMOA signing happens.

I can guarantee that its not going to happen. KGB had a field day in India, so did Mossad. CIA is far more accomplished and there are plenty of "secular" Indians willing to "negotiate" a better life.

Devyani Khobragade got jail time and anal probe while her Maid got US citizenship and so did her Driver Husband who used to work for an American embassy official. ....... and all this before signing LEMOA.

 

[Nilgiri]

I can guarantee that its not going to happen. KGB had a field day in India, so did Mossad. CIA is far more accomplished and there are plenty of "secular" Indians willing to "negotiate" a better life.

Devyani Khobragade got jail time and anal probe while her Maid got US citizenship and so did her Driver Husband who used to work for an American embassy official. ....... and all this before signing LEMOA.

CIA is already entrenched if thats what you mean. I am talking more along the lines of high level military stuff....but yes there will be the inevitable increase even there from just the sheer increase in contact.

Might as well get the maximum from US in return.....overall I think it should be a worthy agreement.

 

[Tshering22]

The flip side is that this becomes a new gateway for CIA to infiltrate India.

People are not aware but most nations have the largest spy network in "friendly countries". E.g. Mossad has a huge network in India. Especially in GoI / MoD. KGB had a huge network in India in the past.

So one of the Risks and Action point would be to make our own agencies aware and alert. (easier said than done).

Russia could oppose US because it aligned itself with China. Even then Russian economy shrunk last year.



You don't need LEMOA for that

I agree. This is not a good move.

 

[Shankranthi]

CIA is already entrenched if thats what you mean. I am talking more along the lines of high level military stuff....but yes there will be the inevitable increase even there from just the sheer increase in contact.

Might as well get the maximum from US in return.....overall I think it should be a worthy agreement.

Nope. I mean all this happened BEFORE CIA was entrenched.

Now imagine what will happen when CIA gets entrenched. How many politicians in their payrolls ? How many news papers ? editors ? media channels ?

They can control the narrative.

Expect more of "religious intolerance" castigations. More Indians deposing before US congress.

Its a deal with the Devil. So expect a bit of Hell and I don't think India is ready to handle that kind of Hell.

What the East India company did, the CIA can do better.

I agree. This is not a good move.

The alternative is the deep sea

We are now playing with the Big Boys, so its time for us to Grow up Fast.

 

[dadeechi]

This is what the map looks like,

This makes it possible for the IN to operate freely in that region and expand its operational foot print. It prepares IN for the future. Not to mention the opportunity for IAF to expand ITS operational foot print.

We have individually negotiated with Vietnam and they will welcome us when the time comes.

In fact IN has started visiting Thailand and Cambodia regularly now to gain experience in operating in those waters and develop deeper relations and future allies. It helps if we demonstrate CLEAR INTENT to operate in that seas.

This agreement with the US demonstrates our Intent and Resolve to the rest of the nations of the world. This will especially bring relief for the smaller nations around China sea. It brings them another potential ally, another rival to chinese threats.


India is already a democracy and no foreign will can undermine our own collective will. Your logic is scrambled by 'Fear'. M.E is a mess with our without India, but now India gets to insist on a continuing US base in Afghanistan so that Indian intelligence can operate safely in Afghanistan.

N.K is a wild card. Its best to ignore them. Not provoke them further. N.K has NOTHING to loose so they would welcome a war. They are Itching for a good fight. Same as pakistan. Strategy for dealing with a self destructive psycho is to leave them alone.


Finally as I have already said, the choice is between the Devil or the deep sea. We get into an agreement but with OUR EYES OPEN.

Are we talking about SCS only or does India have any plans for East China Sea & Sea of Japan

What is the purpose for India to operate in those regions? If it is economical then does India have any other deal than the Oil & Gas exploration deal with Vietnam? Since Vietnam is close to both Russia & India, couldn't India have a bilateral agreement?

For operations in SCS & Gulf of Thailand , An agreement with Vietnam is more than sufficient.

Nope. I mean all this happened BEFORE CIA was entrenched.

Now imagine what will happen when CIA gets entrenched. How many politicians in their payrolls ? How many news papers ? editors ? media channels ?

They can control the narrative.

Expect more of "religious intolerance" castigations. More Indians deposing before US congress.

Its a deal with the Devil. So expect a bit of Hell and I don't think India is ready to handle that kind of Hell.

What the East India company did, the CIA can do better.

How many people here think that the incumbent government is working for the best interests of the country?

That says it all why there is no opposition.

The incumbent government has been successful in using Nationalism as political tool and the tragic results are for everyone to see.

 

[Shankranthi]

Are we talking about SCS only or does India have any plans for East China Sea & Sea of Japan

What is the purpose for India to operate in those regions? If it is economical then does India have any other deal than the Oil & Gas exploration deal with Vietnam? Since Vietnam is close to both Russia & India, couldn't India have a bilateral agreement?

For operations in SCS & Gulf of Thailand , An agreement with Vietnam is more than sufficient.

Obviously when the IN will start to venture out with an view to expand their operation space, it is obvious that IN will not stop at SCS and will enter into sea of Japan and Pacific Ocean as well.

The purpose is to establish strategic strengths and positions that can be leveraged for the coming Negotiations with China. Before the Negotiations start its important to establish positions of Strength. That way there is always plan B.
When time comes Vietnam will welcome anyone who will stand with it, so no need to rush into that now.

The idea is to have as many friends as possible in that area.

How many people here think that the incumbent government is working for the best interests of the country?

That says it all why there is no opposition.

The incumbent government has been successful in using Nationalism as political tool and the tragic results are for everyone to see.

Modi is the best thing that happened to India in a long time. India is making some bold moves and for the first time is deciding out own destiny rather than wait for things to happen.

Literally taking the Bull by the horns. No one expected India to take such bold decisions and step up to play in the big boys arena. Indians have been waiting for far too long for someone with a spine to take charge. Modi is only doing what the public want him to do.

I am all for signing the agreement with US, but its only fair to warn Indians about the pitfalls of this deal.

End of the day, India has to choose the lesser of the two evil.

 

[illusion8]

India should maintain a distance from USA, sooner or later USA will see rise of India as a threat to its supremacy.

That's understood, the chinese became a threat as soon as they started growing.. (though chinese desire for hegemony is also an aspect)..

The reason why India aligns itself with the west to remove any threat aspect. It is deeply thought out move. The west has nothing to fear from India's rise because we as mostly in tune.

Modi is the best thing that happened to India in a long time. India is making some bold moves and for the first time is deciding out own destiny rather than wait for things to happen.

Literally taking the Bull by the horns. No one expected India to take such bold decisions and step up to play in the big boys arena. Indians have been waiting for far too long for someone with a spine to take charge. Modi is only doing what the public want him to do.

I am all for signing the agreement with US, but its only fair to warn Indians about the pitfalls of this deal.

End of the day, India has to choose the lesser of the two evil.

I agree, it's pricking the two usual suspects in our neighborhood..so he must be doing it right.

 

[dadeechi]

The idea is to have as many friends as possible in that area.

If these countries cared about India's security and friendship, would they have leaked the Scorpene documents?

 

[illusion8]

If these countries cared about India's security and friendship, would they have leaked the Scorpene documents?

It was an Australian newspaper that sourced it from some East Asian countries...how is Australia to be blamed for it?

There's scores of leakages of sensitive information the world over..This is one of them.

 

[dadeechi]

It was an Australian newspaper that sourced it from some East Asian countries...how is Australia to be blamed for it?

There's scores of leakages of sensitive information the world over..This is one of them.

I am not blaming Australian newspaper but one needs to understand that US-UK-Germany-Australia-Japan-SK is a close knit family.

One has to follow the motive and the money.

If China was involved then they would have never allowed it to be public instead they would have kept the leak secret and used the data during the war.

The fact that the leak is public itself clearly indicates that it was not from China.

The leak was not only to sabotage the Australian sub deal but also to break the Indo-French relationship.

Remember France was the only country from the West which stood by India when it mattered.

It's just not scorpenes but there are lot more deals like RAFALEs, P75I, nuclear cooperation etc. are all the target of this leak.