India, US rush to ink logistics pact; Parrikar’s trip rescheduled to help deal

[anant_s]

WASHINGTON: Any residual doubts about the intensity of the strategic engagement between India and the United States should dissipate with the meeting next week in Washington DC between the American Defense Secretary Ashton Carter and his Indian counterpart Manohar Parikkar, their third pow-wow in nine months.

The meeting will be book-ended by the US-India Strategic and Commercial Dialogue in Delhi involving Secretary of State John Kerry and Commerce Secretary Penny Pritzker (and their Indian counterparts Sushma Swaraj and Nirmala Sitharaman), and the visit to the US of Home Minister Rajnath Singh for the homeland security dialogue later in September.

Prime Minister Modi is also expected to meet President Obama at the G20 summit in Hangzhou, China on September 4-5, for what will possibly be their last meeting as heads of government.

All these exchanges are happening around the time of the NAM summit in Venezuela on September 17-18, where Prime Minister Modi may be a no-show+ .


The flurry of bilateral visits and exchanges will conclude the Modi government's engagement with the Obama administration as the US Presidential election campaign enters the final stretch in America's winter of discontent.

One of the few bright spots in an otherwise bleak world outlook is what both Washington and New Delhi agree has been a constructive and productive engagement between the two countries, and inasmuch as it is expected to continue into the next U.S administration regardless of who heads it, the two sides want to conclude as much business as possible before the impending changes in Washington DC.

Officials familiar with the engagement said the defense minister's visit to the US Capital was advanced in part to conclude unfinished business before the makeover in Washington, which will also see personnel changes at the Indian Embassy.

The long-awaited and intensely-negotiated agreement pertaining to bilateral military logistics cooperation is just one item that is expected to be ticked off in a US-India defense agenda that has gotten more extensive with each passing year.

Customized to India's specific needs, the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA) is the centerpiece of three foundational agreements that the US sees as the basis of long-term military cooperation - the expression ''alliance'' being anathema to India.

The Scorpene snafu+ will likely be the opening that Washington will use to persuade India to move the on two remaining agreements -- Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA) and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement (BECA) although New Delhi has been leery of such arrangements precisely because of the risk of such leaks.

But given the intense military engagement -- the US is now India's #1 defense partner in terms of hardware supplies and operational exercises -- such agreements are inevitable although New Delhi has sought customized versions specific to its unique status as a ''major defense partner,'' albeit as a ''non-ally.''

It is in this spirit that India is testing the frontiers of the American word that just about anything it has is on the table for India -- from the most advanced jet fighters to aircraft carrier technology to drones.

Indeed, the General Atomic-manufactured Predator Drones are the next item on India's military shopping list in the U.S. that has already ticked off heavy strategic lift aircrafts, anti-submarine warfare aircraft, and Harpoon Missiles, among other items.

Parikkar was initially scheduled to head out to the west coast to visit some of US manufacturing facilities but it now appears he will stay in the Washington DC area and perhaps visit local affiliates.

The US-India engagement comes even as there is a sharp decline in Washington's patronage of Pakistan, now seen as a terrorist state in all but formal designation.

Pakistan's attempt to impute an Indian hand in its domestic turmoil, including in Balochistan and Karachi, has had no perceptible impact in Washington (or at the UN in New York), aside from the standard salutary advise to both sides that they should keep talking, with the pace, scope, and character of the dialogue to be decided by them.

The fact that Pakistan continues to host terror groups+ and has not given up its policy of using them as proxies in the neighborhood, despite protestations to the contrary, has not gone unnoticed in Washington, particularly after the latest attack on the American University in Kabul, which the Afghan government has blamed squarely on Pakistan.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...heduled-to-help-deal/articleshow/53877997.cms

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@Ankit Kumar 002 @Shankranthi @Echo_419 @Aero
Use this thread .. for Lemoa pov discussion

 

[Aero]

Moved Here

If you want to Negotiate with China, Step one is to become STRONG.

Operating in chinese waters makes us strong. THEN we Negotiate with China in good faith.

The other option is to BEG china for mercy.

Which option do you think is better ?

Well, that is what i think instead of Going for Blue Water navy etc we must keep a Robust defence and continue improving our economy then one day we may have that economical capacity to easily project power.

We have our neighbour as example who tries to keep up with its neighbour but is no match economically so lagging behind.

 

[Echo_419]

@Ankit Kumar 002 @Shankranthi @Echo_419 @Aero
Use this thread .. for Lemoa pov discussion

That's the problem literally no one is fuckin opposing this disastrous deal

 

[Shankranthi]

With LEMOA we will eventually get sucked into US orbit

True. But if Indian economy continue to gain Mass and becomes as large as the US economy then US will get sucked into Indian orbit too.

Then we become twin stars circling each other.

Every Threat is also an Opportunity.

I do not deny the Risk, but I also recognise the Gain.

The alternative is to do nothing and get sucked into Chinese Orbit.

Which do you prefer ? China orbit or US orbit ?

If we do not choose now, a choice will be made for us in the future.

As an reminder to what we are dealing with,

That's the problem literally no one is fuckin opposing this disastrous deal

One can oppose the PROVISIONS of the agreement, not the deal itself since India stands to gain more.

Problem is that anti-americanism is a reality so no real mature debate can take place. Most response is emotional and knee jerk or inspired by fear. Under the circumstances its best to do something and apologise later, than ask permission and get shot down.

As they say, its easier to apologise than seek permission.

 

[Echo_419]

True. But if Indian economy continue to gain Mass and becomes as large as the US economy then US will get sucked into Indian orbit too.

Then we become twin stars circling each other.

Every Threat is also an Opportunity.

I do not deny the Risk, but I also recognise the Gain.

The alternative is to do nothing and get sucked into Chinese Orbit.

Which do you prefer ? China orbit or US orbit ?

If we do not choose now, a choice will be made for us in the future.

As an reminder to what we are dealing with,

One can oppose the PROVISIONS of the agreement, not the deal itself since India stands to gain more.

Problem is that anti-americanism is a reality so no real mature debate can take place. Most response is emotional and knee jerk or inspired by fear. Under the circumstances its best to do something and apologise later, than ask permission and get shot down.

As they say, its easier to apologise than seek permission.

Neither the Chinese nor the Americans, both want us to fragment. Non alignment is the way to go

 

[Shankranthi]

Neither the Chinese nor the Americans, both want us to fragment. Non alignment is the way to go

There is no such thing as Non Aligned. Its only an illusion.

Earlier we were forced to align with Russia / USSR and ended up on the wrong side of history. We stood up to US bullying and kept our entire population in poverty. All our claims of "gains" during those times are LIES.

The KGB communist managed to poison entire generation of Indians with "communism" and "socialism". JNU is a prime example of russian social engineering. Is that what you call "non aligned" ?

We need to engage with the world on OUR Terms. So far its the US which has come to us bearing gifts, NOT the chinese.

Let the chinese come with gifts too, when they do, we should be happy to welcome them as well. But first step is to make them COME TO US.

We do that by having something THEY want from us, not something WE want from them.

We have a choice. We can either continue to live in FEAR or stand up for yourself and CHOOSE our destiny WITHOUT Fear.

If we have to choose between the two evils (Devil and the deep sea), let us choose one that brings us most benefit and walk into that relationship with OUR EYES OPEN.

 

[Ali Zadi]

Neither the Chinese nor the Americans, both want us to fragment. Non alignment is the way to go

Non alignment very hard to do in world of today.

 

[Nilgiri]

Neither the Chinese nor the Americans, both want us to fragment. Non alignment is the way to go

Yeah good luck that.

Pragmatism trumps idealism any day of the week.

Nehru found that out the hard way didn't he?

 

[amused_burger]

How many such meetings between Parrikar and Carter have taken place already? Nothing materializes of them except fancy jargon and feigned selfies. It's clear no side is willing to make space for the other by getting rid of their historical baggage. A relationship becomes transformative when risk and uncertainty grow multifold. As of now, it is a "safe-safe" game from both sides.

 

[dadeechi]

How many such meetings between Parrikar and Carter have taken place already? Nothing materializes of them except fancy jargon and feigned selfies. It's clear no side is willing to make space for the other by getting rid of their historical baggage. A relationship becomes transformative when risk and uncertainty grow multifold. As of now, it is a "safe-safe" game from both sides.

The LSA agreement would be signed next week. A huge win for US. US would literally get dozens of bases in India in one stoke.

 

[AugenBlick]

True. But if Indian economy continue to gain Mass and becomes as large as the US economy then US will get sucked into Indian orbit too.

Then we become twin stars circling each other.

Every Threat is also an Opportunity.

I do not deny the Risk, but I also recognise the Gain.

The alternative is to do nothing and get sucked into Chinese Orbit.

Which do you prefer ? China orbit or US orbit ?

If we do not choose now, a choice will be made for us in the future.

As an reminder to what we are dealing with,

One can oppose the PROVISIONS of the agreement, not the deal itself since India stands to gain more.

Problem is that anti-americanism is a reality so no real mature debate can take place. Most response is emotional and knee jerk or inspired by fear. Under the circumstances its best to do something and apologise later, than ask permission and get shot down.

As they say, its easier to apologise than seek permission.

America will kill our civilization from inside through leftist rot.

 

[dadeechi]

That's the problem literally no one is fuckin opposing this disastrous deal

Remember that there is hardly any opposition left in India. The only parties (Congress & Communists) that care for foreign policy have hardly any strength left.

 

[Olaf One-Brow]

America will kill our civilization from inside through leftist rot.

You can not run. You can not resist. You can only accept us. Embrace us. It is your destiny. Assimilate.

We are a creeping plague that binds your lungs, slowly choking you in our influence. And there is no cure (believe me, even the Soviets, ardent anti-American culturalists, tried that sh*t. Didn't work).

Cultural victory, America.

since India stands to gain more.

Damn right India stands to gain. Just think of all the help you'll get from the US when you decide to mount a campaign against Guatemala. All those sweet US bases in the region, our logistics train, hell, maybe even our intelligence or kinetic support!! Those damn Guatermelons have had it coming for far too long!!

See how you benefit? Lucky you.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

US is unlikely to get much benefit out of this agreement with India. They already operate globally with or without India.

US already have Multiple bases in the M.E and Around China. They have a base in Deigo Garcia which is Bang in the middle of Indian Ocean.

Its better to sign up with the US and get multiple access than individually negotiate with Japan, taiwan, korea etc for bases. This way we can fly under the radar and let US take the chinese heat.

Its India which need access to bases near China to expand our operations and get operational experience in that part of the globe. This Expands INDIAN Foot print right into Chinese waters. The same way China is expanding int our waters (Gwadar, colombo, djibouti, Mayanmar ) and space.

Sadly this agreement with the US is not even a dynamic Action from India, its just a belated REACTION to Chinese strategy.

You can be sure that India stands to gain much more than we loose in this deal. As a matter of fact its a Win-Win deal for both India and US designed to checkmate china.

PS: Why do you think we have moved tanks into Ladak and Brahmos into Arunachal Pradesh and have pushed for border roads ?

PPS: This is a wrong thread for this discussion.

See let this one thing be clear. US does not have a base either in Taiwan or in any other south east Asian nation. Except a military garrison in Philippines. So no matter we sign or not , for the most important region we will have to negotiate with many nations .

Coming to the thought that it gives India a arrow in its inventory , well it does but not so. The only base they have around or near China except their bases in Singapore and Australia is Japan and South Korea.

Its basically like for gaining 1 Base we are giving up numerous bases bang on the head of Indian ocean and much more numerous bases near Tibet. They gain here a big big pie.

One thing we are ignoring is the geopolitical aspect of this. This means , there is next Democracry delivery plans by the west , they will jump start from here only , which means only one thing in global arena , we are a part of their ridiculous invasions. And then who is responsible for the wrath arising from it ? I don't want my citizens be killed for a invasion in middle east in name of jihad.


Coming to US taking the heat , as I said South Korea lost numerous lives in that sunk corvette by the north Korean Submarine , and we would have expected South Korea to take action while US takes the "HEAT " from China.... do you know what happened ? US turned the heat on SK , ensuring they don't do anything except increasing the number of propaganda speakers in their border.

US is the best enemy a nation can get as a ally and this has been proven numerous times.

India is build ing up north east not because of a go ahead by US , but because its our damm area.


@PARIKRAMA @anant_s
I am unaware of one thing , will this grant US access to India's all bases ?