India-US Exercise: Super Hornet Landing

[Archie]

Why are we discussing this
Kitty Hawk is a 49 yrs old rust bucket
and even after a 1.5 Billion USD refit , it could only have served for 15 yrs
if we were to acquire it instead of Gorshkov , then we would be looking at a replacement in 2025 , Whille Gorshkov will only be going MLU in 2025-27 and will serve till 2040

Today, if India is to order a Foreign carrier then it will be nothing But one of the Queen Elizabeth Class Carrier Which will cost 5 Billion USD and India will have to Buy 40 Sea Typhoon STOBAR aircraft worth another 5 Billion USD
If we are to order this , then it means that Navy is not satisfied with performance of Vikramaditya and Vikrant , and doesnot Want to take a risk with IAC2
Any foreign purchase of AC will push back the funding of IAC2 from currently planned FY2014 to FY 2017
It will also come at the cost of atleast 2 of the 4 LPD/LPH which navy wants , or MOD could scrap the whole LPD tenderand acquire 1-2 Wasp Class LHD which will begin retiring in yr 2020

 

[Sergi]

So can you explain why Navy wants CATOBAR fighters ???
I don't think there will be naval version of EF typhoon. There is NO "money" and "requirement" for R&D. They all are going for F35 whenever it can fly.

Plus IN buying Rust bucket for $(1.5 + 5B (appx price of f18)) will be economical solution than $10B for 40 odd fighters.

It will be great experience for IN looking to be Blue Navy. So next step can be Nuclear powered AC. But we agree to disagree

 

[Dash]

So can you explain why Navy wants CATOBAR fighters ???
I don't think there will be naval version of EF typhoon. There is NO "money" and "requirement" for R&D. They all are going for F35 whenever it can fly.

Plus IN buying Rust bucket for $(1.5 + 5B (appx price of f18)) will be economical solution than $10B for 40 odd fighters.

It will be great experience for IN looking to be Blue Navy. So next step can be Nuclear powered AC. But we agree to disagree

A carrier is not always good for a refit.

For a matter Admiral Goroshkov was not at sea all the time and was fit for a refit.
As per kitty hawk is considered, as earlier Navy chief said, its too old and too expensive.

And just dont think refitting is the same activity when you are trying to do it for Kitty hawk and Admiral Goroshkov.
These Kitty Hawk would have needed a complete Overhaul

 

[Sergi]

Overhaul and making it sea worthy is USA 's problem not ours. IN will definately check it before buying. Frankly even I am not a big fan of old ships. But I saw a interview of IN chief few years ago may be Mr. Naik don't remember it. Reporter asked him why India is buying a used ship instead of a new one. His reply was " it's value for money and operational suitability plus the experience it gave our own industry to make something like that of our own. Give me a AC in 3 Bn dollars and I will buy it right away. "

Operating that kinda ship even for 15/20 years will help us in long term. Any anyways ship is always free. We have to pay refitt and planes. And USA is good with keeping dead lines too

 

[Dash]

When Admiral Naik said that give me $3 billion, he was referring to Goroskov. As there was a controversy over its price negotiation. Whan he was asked why did he chose this ship, he replied saying tell me who will give you an A/C in $3 billion.

Kitty hawk was already 50 years old, compared to 10 years for Goroskov.
The US's vested interest for that matter to sell Kitty hawak was to equip AsiaPac have a A/C to counter chinese influence and not like simple buyer seller relationship like we had with Russia with no interest imposed.

Hence buying Kitty Hawk was rulled out for all reasons.

 

[Sergi]

When Admiral Naik said that give me $3 billion, he was referring to Goroskov. As there was a controversy over its price negotiation. Whan he was asked why did he chose this ship, he replied saying tell me who will give you an A/C in $3 billion.

Kitty hawk was already 50 years old, compared to 10 years for Goroskov.
The US's vested interest for that matter to sell Kitty hawak was to equip AsiaPac have a A/C to counter chinese influence and not like simple buyer seller relationship like we had with Russia with no interest imposed.

Hence buying Kitty Hawk was rulled out for all reasons.

Yes you are right. But are you trying to say that USA would have forced India to use it against China ? Considering our relation with china is was and still is obvious. USA was trying to arm India that was good for India.

It was ruled out in favour of Russia. So no wrong single is sent to Russia. I think you too have seen that interview. If you consider CONS 's opinion on Russian ship is right then why to bais with USA ship ?
Anyways I have explained everything that I can. We might have opinion difference and finally it's IN to decide. And who knows USA might also offer anothership that's not kitty hack old. I read somewhere 11 th AC ship of USA is over running budget. So definately not a new ship for us.
And considering Indian ship yards capacity to build AC in upper class. I don't think we can have that kinda ship at home. Buying from UK is option but UK buyes catapult from US so it's again problem with maintainance and tech.

 

[tvsram1992]

Kitty hawk is an excellent option if it comes for <$2billion
Though the carrier is old, it will have capacity to carry 2 squadrons of F18E/F along with E18Growlers and AEW systems . The planes which are brand new matters .

 

[Dash]

Yes you are right. But are you trying to say that USA would have forced India to use it against China ? Considering our relation with china is was and still is obvious. USA was trying to arm India that was good for India.

It was ruled out in favour of Russia. So no wrong single is sent to Russia. I think you too have seen that interview. If you consider CONS 's opinion on Russian ship is right then why to bais with USA ship ?
Anyways I have explained everything that I can. We might have opinion difference and finally it's IN to decide. And who knows USA might also offer anothership that's not kitty hack old. I read somewhere 11 th AC ship of USA is over running budget. So definately not a new ship for us.
And considering Indian ship yards capacity to build AC in upper class. I don't think we can have that kinda ship at home. Buying from UK is option but UK buyes catapult from US so it's again problem with maintainance and tech.

, Openion difference is good. Actually Goroskov will be our last carrier made with foreign help and of course INS Vikrant (made with foreign consultancy). From now on its good to make carriers at home. Reason - It costs you way too less and helps your industry.

 

[Sergi]

Our current AC are good for Regional role. But if want our IN to be blue water navy we need more ships( destroyers and frigets and subs) and atleast 2 big AC with 50/60 jets on each one. Nuclear power AC is even better. And this must be In mind of policy makers. So if we want this in next 10/15 years we have to start now. It will be good experience to operate this kinda big ship and let's hope our shipyards can absorb as much as possible. Plus we should buy TOT for CATOBAR/steam catapult from USA. It will be good time since both countries are in good terms. Developing it isn't impossible but I don't think we have 20 years for that