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airpower183

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If you are Indian, or of Indian descent, I must preface this post with a clear warning: you are not going to like what I have to say. My criticisms may be very hard to stomach. But consider them as the hard words and loving advice of a good friend. Someone who’s being honest with you and wants nothing from you. These criticisms apply to all of India except Kerala and the places I didn’t visit, except that I have a feeling it applies to all of India, except as I mentioned before, Kerala. Lastly, before anyone accuses me of Western Cultural Imperialism, let me say this: if this is what India and Indians want, then hey, who am I to tell them differently. Take what you like and leave the rest. In the end it doesn’t really matter, as I get the sense that Indians, at least many upper class Indians, don’t seem to care and the lower classes just don’t know any better, what with Indian culture being so intense and pervasive on the sub-continent. But here goes, nonetheless.

India is a mess. It’s that simple, but it’s also quite complicated. I’ll start with what I think are India’s four major problems–the four most preventing India from becoming a developing nation–and then move to some of the ancillary ones.

First, pollution. In my opinion the filth, squalor and all around pollution indicates a marked lack of respect for India by Indians. I don’t know how cultural the filth is, but it’s really beyond anything I have ever encountered. At times the smells, trash, refuse and excrement are like a garbage dump. Right next door to the Taj Mahal was a pile of trash that smelled so bad, was so foul as to almost ruin the entire Taj experience. Delhi, Bangalore and Chennai to a lesser degree were so very polluted as to make me physically ill. Sinus infections, ear infection, bowels churning was an all to common experience in India. Dung, be it goat, cow or human fecal matter was common on the streets. In major tourist areas filth was everywhere, littering the sidewalks, the roadways, you name it. Toilets in the middle of the road, men urinating and defecating anywhere, in broad daylight. Whole villages are plastic bag wastelands. Roadsides are choked by it. Air quality that can hardly be called quality. Far too much coal and far to few unleaded vehicles on the road. The measure should be how dangerous the air is for one’s health, not how good it is. People casually throw trash in the streets, on the roads. The only two cities that could be considered sanitary in my journey were Trivandrum–the capital of Kerala–and Calicut. I don’t know why this is. But I can assure you that at some point this pollution will cut into India’s productivity, if it already hasn’t. The pollution will hobble India’s growth path, if that indeed is what the country wants. (Which I personally doubt, as India is far too conservative a country, in the small ‘c’ sense.)

The second issue, infrastructure, can be divided into four subcategories: roads, rails and ports and the electrical grid. The electrical grid is a joke. Load shedding is all too common, everywhere in India. Wide swaths of the country spend much of the day without the electricity they actually pay for. With out regular electricity, productivity, again, falls. The ports are a joke. Antiquated, out of date, hardly even appropriate for the mechanized world of container ports, more in line with the days of longshoremen and the like. Roads are an equal disaster. I only saw one elevated highway that would be considered decent in Thailand, much less Western Europe or America. And I covered fully two thirds of the country during my visit. There are so few dual carriage way roads as to be laughable. There are no traffic laws to speak of, and if there are, they are rarely obeyed, much less enforced. A drive that should take an hour takes three. A drive that should take three takes nine. The buses are at least thirty years old, if not older. Everyone in India, or who travels in India raves about the railway system. Rubbish. It’s awful. Now, when I was there in 2003 and then late 2004 it was decent. But in the last five years the traffic on the rails has grown so quickly that once again, it is threatening productivity. Waiting in line just to ask a question now takes thirty minutes. Routes are routinely sold out three and four days in advance now, leaving travelers stranded with little option except to take the decrepit and dangerous buses. At least fifty million people use the trains a day in India. 50 million people! Not surprising that waitlists of 500 or more people are common now. The rails are affordable and comprehensive but they are overcrowded and what with budget airlines popping up in India like Sadhus in an ashram the middle and lowers classes are left to deal with the overutilized rails and quality suffers. No one seems to give a shit. Seriously, I just never have the impression that the Indian government really cares. Too interested in buying weapons from Russia, Israel and the US I guess.

The last major problem in India is an old problem and can be divided into two parts that’ve been two sides of the same coin since government was invented: bureaucracy and corruption. It take triplicates to register into a hotel. To get a SIM card for one’s phone is like wading into a jungle of red-tape and photocopies one is not likely to emerge from in a good mood, much less satisfied with customer service. Getting train tickets is a terrible ordeal, first you have to find the train number, which takes 30 minutes, then you have to fill in the form, which is far from easy, then you have to wait in line to try and make a reservation, which takes 30 minutes at least and if you made a single mistake on the form back you go to the end of the queue, or what passes for a queue in India. The government is notoriously uninterested in the problems of the commoners, too busy fleecing the rich, or trying to get rich themselves in some way shape or form. Take the trash for example, civil rubbish collection authorities are too busy taking kickbacks from the wealthy to keep their areas clean that they don’t have the time, manpower, money or interest in doing their job. Rural hospitals are perennially understaffed as doctors pocket the fees the government pays them, never show up at the rural hospitals and practice in the cities instead.

I could go on for quite some time about my perception of India and its problems, but in all seriousness, I don’t think anyone in India really cares. And that, to me, is the biggest problem. India is too conservative a society to want to change in any way. Mumbai, India’s financial capital is about as filthy, polluted and poor as the worst city imaginable in Vietnam, or Indonesia–and being more polluted than Medan, in Sumatra is no easy task. The biggest rats I have ever seen were in Medan!

One would expect a certain amount of, yes, I am going to use this word, backwardness, in a country that hasn’t produced so many Nobel Laureates, nuclear physicists, imminent economists and entrepreneurs. But India has all these things and what have they brought back to India with them? Nothing. The rich still have their servants, the lower castes are still there to do the dirty work and so the country remains in stasis. It’s a shame. Indians and India have many wonderful things to offer the world, but I’m far from sanguine that India will amount to much in my lifetime.

Now, have at it, call me a cultural imperialist, a spoiled child of the West and all that. But remember, I’ve been there. I’ve done it. And I’ve seen 50 other countries on this planet and none, not even Ethiopia, have as long and gargantuan a laundry list of problems as India does. And the bottom line is, I don’t think India really cares. Too complacent and too conservative.

 
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Before the @shit hits the fan in this thread.

1. You are correct in your assessments to a fairly large extent. Cleanliness needs to be brought in, specifically with relation to the municipalities and public services. There is widespread education, which is being carried out, to make people aware of what is bad, simple examples...urination, spitting in public services. Again, this varies from state to state.

2. Infrastructure - Mumbai is where I have spent major part of my life, so the following take it with a pinch of salt. The city has huge influx of migrants flowing in. The infrastructure has to provide for hence people from all walks of life. So, I make take an airconditioned bus which is run by BEST, and pay 150 Rs for a ticket or travel by local for 8 Rs. Up to the person traveling. Don't expect the same when you travel at Rs. 8. The city stretched more than 40kms. People traveling that distance for under 10 Rs is an achievement.

3. Rail - Here I will disagree with you. You need to plan and know the rules. Reservations open 60 days in advance. If you miss it, don't blame the Railways. Tickets typically get booked a month in advance. Ofcourse, you can also book a day in advance, its called Tatkal and available online. So for this I would say you did not do your homework, :)

4. Pollution - Major issue in the cities and no doubt about it. With the increase in automotive sales, this unfortunately in my opinion is going to get worse. Unfortunately, the rules dont get implemented stringently.

5. Electricity : Things were worse, things are better and will only get better. By 2020, there is a HUGE addition in capacity coming up. So its going to get better.

Having said all of the above, let me finish with saying, what you will hear all the time. India is a huge country. There are places which will give the best a run for their money and places which will make the worst look like paradise. This place is like scotch. Takes time for you to develop a taste for it, but, once you have it you cannot let go.
 
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@airpower183

Much of what you write is true. We went full retard the last 10 years. Bangalore used to be such a beautiful city and now I cannot go out anywhere and not complain about trash. It is not the culture, but govt apathy and incompetence.
 
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I thought the roads and highways in and around Chennai are good. Btw you visited ooty?
Second, after 26/11, even local Indians take 2-3 days to get our SIM activated, you being a foreigner, will take time.
Trains, is in a mess. Though reservation you should do before itself, but quality is coming down due to losses and no increase in fares.
Pollution, defacation, cattles on the road are very very true. It needs a change in attitude of Humans, the govt can do only less.

@airpower183

Much of what you write is true. We went full retard the last 10 years. Bangalore used to be such a beautiful city and now I cannot go out anywhere and not complain about trash. It is not the culture, but govt apathy and incompetence.

We should stop blaming the govt? Its, us, we people are to blame. How many people, on the road, you see openly throw out garbage? Even a chocolate wraper? Spitting etc?
If people dont change, govt cannot do anything.
 
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@ OP,

What class did you travel in the trains? Like the guy earlier said, if you don't plan your travel in advance you'll be left with the crappiest form of commute.

Did you travel 50 countries at spur of the moment with no planning?:coffee:
 
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@Bhai Zakir , @fsayed .... you are urgently required to tell these people they are wrong and CONgress has taken India to new heights.

A few of your propaganda posters might liven up this thread. :coffee:
1669627_397063937104220_1603676397_o.jpg
The Magic Theory of Modinomics: Gujarat Government, under the wise leadership of Narendra Modi, has decided that those who earn Rs. 11/- a day are not poor. This novel theory would successfully eradicate all the poor from India!

गरीबी को मिटाने के लिए मोदीजी ने फेंका तुरुप का एक्का !if you earn 11 rupees daily you are not poor 24491
 
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We should stop blaming the govt? Its, us, we people are to blame. How many people, on the road, you see openly throw out garbage? Even a chocolate wraper? Spitting etc?
If people dont change, govt cannot do anything.

It is the govt. When I first came to Bangalore, I used to love it because there was no garbage anywhere. How did that change since that time? There used to be this Garbage rinks everywhere where people could dump their refuse and it used to be collected daily. Sure there was some overflowing and spillage issues, but then some bozo decided that it should be taken off. They came up with the idea of door to door garbage collection but then they collect it from the homes and go and dump it on some street corner. The dump truck comes just once a day or so and the plastics and papers from the dump fly everywhere and get littered by all the stray dogs and animals around.

To top it up, I heard all the land fill areas were grabbed by greedy politicians, Deve Gowda's and SM Krishna's families, and now there are no landfills anywhere. Not everything can be recycled and there are protests from any village/town in the vicinity of which the govt tries to set up garbage management units.

When the whole city anyway looks like one up garbage heap what does it matter who throws stuff anywhere?
 
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If you are Indian, or of Indian descent, I must preface this post with a clear warning: you are not going to like what I have to say. My criticisms may be very hard to stomach. But consider them as the hard words and loving advice of a good friend. Someone who’s being honest with you and wants nothing from you. These criticisms apply to all of India except Kerala and the places I didn’t visit, except that I have a feeling it applies to all of India, except as I mentioned before, Kerala. Lastly, before anyone accuses me of Western Cultural Imperialism, let me say this: if this is what India and Indians want, then hey, who am I to tell them differently. Take what you like and leave the rest. In the end it doesn’t really matter, as I get the sense that Indians, at least many upper class Indians, don’t seem to care and the lower classes just don’t know any better, what with Indian culture being so intense and pervasive on the sub-continent. But here goes, nonetheless.

India is a mess. It’s that simple, but it’s also quite complicated. I’ll start with what I think are India’s four major problems–the four most preventing India from becoming a developing nation–and then move to some of the ancillary ones.

First, pollution. In my opinion the filth, squalor and all around pollution indicates a marked lack of respect for India by Indians. I don’t know how cultural the filth is, but it’s really beyond anything I have ever encountered. At times the smells, trash, refuse and excrement are like a garbage dump. Right next door to the Taj Mahal was a pile of trash that smelled so bad, was so foul as to almost ruin the entire Taj experience. Delhi, Bangalore and Chennai to a lesser degree were so very polluted as to make me physically ill. Sinus infections, ear infection, bowels churning was an all to common experience in India. Dung, be it goat, cow or human fecal matter was common on the streets. In major tourist areas filth was everywhere, littering the sidewalks, the roadways, you name it. Toilets in the middle of the road, men urinating and defecating anywhere, in broad daylight. Whole villages are plastic bag wastelands. Roadsides are choked by it. Air quality that can hardly be called quality. Far too much coal and far to few unleaded vehicles on the road. The measure should be how dangerous the air is for one’s health, not how good it is. People casually throw trash in the streets, on the roads. The only two cities that could be considered sanitary in my journey were Trivandrum–the capital of Kerala–and Calicut. I don’t know why this is. But I can assure you that at some point this pollution will cut into India’s productivity, if it already hasn’t. The pollution will hobble India’s growth path, if that indeed is what the country wants. (Which I personally doubt, as India is far too conservative a country, in the small ‘c’ sense.)

The second issue, infrastructure, can be divided into four subcategories: roads, rails and ports and the electrical grid. The electrical grid is a joke. Load shedding is all too common, everywhere in India. Wide swaths of the country spend much of the day without the electricity they actually pay for. With out regular electricity, productivity, again, falls. The ports are a joke. Antiquated, out of date, hardly even appropriate for the mechanized world of container ports, more in line with the days of longshoremen and the like. Roads are an equal disaster. I only saw one elevated highway that would be considered decent in Thailand, much less Western Europe or America. And I covered fully two thirds of the country during my visit. There are so few dual carriage way roads as to be laughable. There are no traffic laws to speak of, and if there are, they are rarely obeyed, much less enforced. A drive that should take an hour takes three. A drive that should take three takes nine. The buses are at least thirty years old, if not older. Everyone in India, or who travels in India raves about the railway system. Rubbish. It’s awful. Now, when I was there in 2003 and then late 2004 it was decent. But in the last five years the traffic on the rails has grown so quickly that once again, it is threatening productivity. Waiting in line just to ask a question now takes thirty minutes. Routes are routinely sold out three and four days in advance now, leaving travelers stranded with little option except to take the decrepit and dangerous buses. At least fifty million people use the trains a day in India. 50 million people! Not surprising that waitlists of 500 or more people are common now. The rails are affordable and comprehensive but they are overcrowded and what with budget airlines popping up in India like Sadhus in an ashram the middle and lowers classes are left to deal with the overutilized rails and quality suffers. No one seems to give a shit. Seriously, I just never have the impression that the Indian government really cares. Too interested in buying weapons from Russia, Israel and the US I guess.

The last major problem in India is an old problem and can be divided into two parts that’ve been two sides of the same coin since government was invented: bureaucracy and corruption. It take triplicates to register into a hotel. To get a SIM card for one’s phone is like wading into a jungle of red-tape and photocopies one is not likely to emerge from in a good mood, much less satisfied with customer service. Getting train tickets is a terrible ordeal, first you have to find the train number, which takes 30 minutes, then you have to fill in the form, which is far from easy, then you have to wait in line to try and make a reservation, which takes 30 minutes at least and if you made a single mistake on the form back you go to the end of the queue, or what passes for a queue in India. The government is notoriously uninterested in the problems of the commoners, too busy fleecing the rich, or trying to get rich themselves in some way shape or form. Take the trash for example, civil rubbish collection authorities are too busy taking kickbacks from the wealthy to keep their areas clean that they don’t have the time, manpower, money or interest in doing their job. Rural hospitals are perennially understaffed as doctors pocket the fees the government pays them, never show up at the rural hospitals and practice in the cities instead.

I could go on for quite some time about my perception of India and its problems, but in all seriousness, I don’t think anyone in India really cares. And that, to me, is the biggest problem. India is too conservative a society to want to change in any way. Mumbai, India’s financial capital is about as filthy, polluted and poor as the worst city imaginable in Vietnam, or Indonesia–and being more polluted than Medan, in Sumatra is no easy task. The biggest rats I have ever seen were in Medan!

One would expect a certain amount of, yes, I am going to use this word, backwardness, in a country that hasn’t produced so many Nobel Laureates, nuclear physicists, imminent economists and entrepreneurs. But India has all these things and what have they brought back to India with them? Nothing. The rich still have their servants, the lower castes are still there to do the dirty work and so the country remains in stasis. It’s a shame. Indians and India have many wonderful things to offer the world, but I’m far from sanguine that India will amount to much in my lifetime.

Now, have at it, call me a cultural imperialist, a spoiled child of the West and all that. But remember, I’ve been there. I’ve done it. And I’ve seen 50 other countries on this planet and none, not even Ethiopia, have as long and gargantuan a laundry list of problems as India does. And the bottom line is, I don’t think India really cares. Too complacent and too conservative.

mr we r not developed economy but one of fastest growing economy in world .we developing economy by 2020 or max 2025 india not only b developed economy but third super power including america and china, world manufacturing hub + defence manufacturing hub and many more so plz b worry about ur srilankan economy . india is on right track
 
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I thought the roads and highways in and around Chennai are good. Btw you visited ooty?
Pollution, defacation, cattles on the road are very very true. It needs a change in attitude of Humans, the govt can do only less.
That's not true

I recently saw some pictures of heartland of Chennai taken by a Tamil friend of mine in Sri Lanka. Sorry to say, even the most dirtiest part of Sri Lanka is more cleaner than that. I believe this is result of lack of sense of responsibility of citizens there. Even a person from Tamil Nadu I know here drops littler like a motherfu*** everywhere and he moved to UK when he was just 12 years old.
 
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mr we r not developed economy but one of fastest growing economy in world .we developing economy by 2020 or max 2025 india not only b developed economy but third super power including america and china, world manufacturing hub + defence manufacturing hub and many more so plz b worry about ur srilankan economy . india is on right track
Buddy, Sri Lanka was in a worse position during the era of civil war yet it was much cleaner. Lack of development is no excuse.
 
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mr we r not developed economy but one of fastest growing economy in world .we developing economy by 2020 or max 2025 india not only b developed economy but third super power including america and china, world manufacturing hub + defence manufacturing hub and many more so plz b worry about ur srilankan economy . india is on right track

India grew at 4.5% this year under your Dear Congress Party's rule.

At this rate it'll take India 13 years to double it's GDP to 4 Trillion (40% of China's current GDP).

Thanks Congress!
 
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@ OP,

What class did you travel in the trains? Like the guy earlier said, if you don't plan your travel in advance you'll be left with the crappiest form of commute.

Did you travel 50 countries at spur of the moment with no planning?:coffee:
What states did you visit?
@airpower183 when did you visited India dude???
He did not travel, lolz.
Reflections On India - Sean Paul Kelley - Open Salon

OP kindly post the link to original article in future, we dont want another lankan ranger here.. (where is he gone?)

On topic: its true mostly, India is too polluted, and people have little civic sense. Some are better than other but generally speaking its not much good.
 
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