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India Took 35 Years to Make Its First Tank (And It Was a Total Disaster)

Oh OK. Anyways. It probed my point? This fellow bragging without any updates.

And Pakistan Army showing interest in Altay tanks but Chinese pushing arm twisted to sell their T99. As per my update. T99 don't satisfy your needs.
What are you talkin about? :lol:

MBT-3000 and OPLOT M are a different thing ... and in no way connected to the AK-II project..

Infact new trails will be held in 2017... the Ukrainians will again come with their improved Oplot M..

Oplot M trials 2016:

Oplot M test in Pakistan-4 (1).jpg
 
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Oh OK. Anyways. It probed my point? This fellow bragging without any updates.

And Pakistan Army showing interest in Altay tanks but Chinese pushing arm twisted to sell their T99. As per my update. T99 don't satisfy your needs.

Cause we want new Tank which will be named Al-Haider and Chinese are not pushing for anything we tested Oplot-M and MBT-3000. Chinese didn't even send T-99's neither we asked for it

About Altay we don't need that either too Heavy for our Terrain

Al-Khalid will be upgraded to Al-Khalid II with next-generation electronics site, which comprises a fire control system, electro-optical sensor, and communications system,
 
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I think the project was started in the 90s, 70s aur 80s mein sirf discussions hue thee. Also, don't rely on Indian media for facts
Updated upto date technology. First it was supposed to be 40-42 ton with 105 mm gun. Without advanced protection like non explosion armor, GPS etc etc which was not the case in 1970-80. Our armor is best in the class and can defend against point blank range shot from T 72 tanks. Lahat rounds actually tested from arjun which reached 6 km range with high probability kill was canceled by our fcukin DRDO. As they want to make their own. But they had made some good advance. So I guess now we use both the rounds as main ammunition and guided rounds imported and indigenous. . .

And Arjun is a very good tanks. We should look into reducing the weight with imported armor from Russia, and more powerful Engine and if possible less wight wheel mechanics with lighter materials.

I prefer three types of Arjun

-starting with heavy ( western standard in weight) MK2,

- Light weight Arjun with 125 guns for long range shots and mobility,

- And Advanced FMBT with 125mm guns, powerful engines, advanced systems with automated weapon system in line with Armata Tanks.

But over all more powerful Engine or little tweaking in present engine for more torque, weight to power Ratio atleast 30-40:1. Original plan with 105 mm gun without any modern armor, other technologies it was supposed to be 50:1.
 
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What are you talkin about? :lol:

MBT-3000 and OPLOT M are a different thing ... and in no way connected to the AK-II project..

Infact new trails will be held in 2017... the Ukrainians will again come with their improved Oplot M..

Oplot M trials 2016:

View attachment 356442

Yeah. Before it was like Chinese wanted Pakistan to drop MK2 and go ahead with T99 export variant.

As Ur indigenous Al-Khalid is a further development of the Chinese Type 90-II tank. :angel:. Which was not inducted by Chinese and was exported under the name MBT-2000. Am I right dear? :rolleyes: As usual Chinese sold these tanks to you like JF-17 . Production line shifted to Pakistan. 4-5 million per tank while our Arjun costs us 8-9 million due to indigenous efforts and investment and imported best technologies available! :rolleyes:


In short comparison your AK is Soviet Ripoff weigh 46-48 T while While Arjun Falls in line with German modern leopard tanks in design similarities. Weigh 62-68 T due to heavy armor installed on Arjun.

Mobility - AK 1_____Arjun 0. But what is more sad is it's power to weight ratio. Heavy so called over weight Arjun has ratio rating of 22.5 : 1... Super light weight AK MK1 stands at 26 :1 :disagree: . Yet I have given 1 point to u. :rolleyes:




Armour - AK 0______Arjun 1

The Arjun Mark II tank protection includes explosive reactive armour (ERA) system integrated at the front part of the Chassis and the turret.It has enhanced with improved KANCHAN armour,a modular composite armour developed by India.This is the special armour made by sandwiching composite panels between Rolled homogeneous armour (RHA).The armour is capable to defeat APDS,APFSDS and HEAT rounds

Engine - AK 0_____Arun 1 (200 hp more)

Fire power Shot Range - AK 0_____Arjun 1 with Fully stablised 120 mm Main Rifles gun and ATGW LAHAT(Stand off effective range 6 KM) While you use 125 mm 39 " shells (Effective stand off range - 4 km) :angel:

Ur indigenous T90II



The Type-90-IIM at the origin of the project, also produced under licence by Pakistan


And this fellow citizen of Ur says Arjun is waste failed and Alkhalid is huge success.

My dear chotu bhai
According to “Pakistan Military Consortium” Usman Shabbir, the new Al Khalid integrates components of the Chinese Type 99 MBT, like the SB gun. Heavier, it has a redesigned turret and improved armour modules, new sensors, improved ammunitions, an Integrated Battle Management System (IBMS) and a new 1,500 hp powerpack. It is scheduled for production and also serves as a long-term modernization/upgrade programme for the Al Khalid of 1st generation.

But insteed Chinese wanted you to buy their T99 /3000 directly and use their components insteed of Ukrainians.

So close you Front and back door. :lol:
We don't collect shit from all over the world and call it 'indigenous" just like LCA (Low Capability Aircraft). So cool down baby.
Cause we want new Tank which will be named Al-Haider and Chinese are not pushing for anything we tested Oplot-M and MBT-3000. Chinese didn't even send T-99's neither we asked for it

About Altay we don't need that either too Heavy for our Terrain

Al-Khalid will be upgraded to Al-Khalid II with next-generation electronics site, which comprises a fire control system, electro-optical sensor, and communications system,

Some one tag our chotu bhai I can't remember his name :police:

No kiddo.. it wasnt.. MBT-3000 and OPLOT M were tested... while AK-II is under development..

Hahaha MBT 3000 is around 52-54 T with 100 hp under powered compared To Arjuns 1400 hp .

Let's see how far you will go with AK MK2 weight with 1500 HP engine and all goodies u want to install. And T 72 is the blue print of MBT-3000 :D

MBT 3000 is similar to Type 99G but down graded version. Which is Ur presumed Alkhalid MK2. First picture emerged in 2013?

What are you talkin about? :lol:

MBT-3000 and OPLOT M are a different thing ... and in no way connected to the AK-II project..

Infact new trails will be held in 2017... the Ukrainians will again come with their improved Oplot M..

Oplot M trials 2016:

View attachment 356442

Babaji please read my above comments. And MBT-3000 is downgraded version of Type 99G it has 52-54 T. 10 tone more weight. If true then the weight ratio could be more or less same as Arun tanks . 23/24 :1
 
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state runs institutions are worse . its works if IA was designing and making it like we have in pakistan POF-HIT-PAC - NAVAL DOCKYARD all run by military herself

It think the private sector, like L&T, can do wonders as a production agency. Eventually they won't need DRDO or outside firms for the designing part.
 
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Yeah. Before it was like Chinese wanted Pakistan to drop MK2 and go ahead with T99 export variant.

Too retarded to understand that these are 2 different programs?
As Ur indigenous Al-Khalid is a further development of the Chinese Type 90-II tank. :angel:. Which was not inducted by Chinese and was exported under the name MBT-2000. Am I right dear? :rolleyes: As usual Chinese sold these tanks to you like JF-17 .

Too retarded to know that T-90II was the basis of several tanks.. a

MBT-2000 is the export version of AK with Chinese systems.
Production line shifted to Pakistan. 4-5 million per tank while our Arjun costs us 8-9 million due to indigenous efforts and investment and imported best technologies available! :rolleyes:

Pretty stupid if it costs 8-9 million ... thats more expensive than an Abrams... while arjun is a failure...

A leopard clone forced down indian armys throat... best technologies? like what? an obsolete gun,massive weak spots even on the turret which might aswell be penetrated by a 7.62 AP round... a weak weight to power ratio,no hunter killer,no ATGM launch capability and much more...

In short comparison your AK is Soviet Ripoff weigh 46-48 T while While Arjun Falls in line with German modern leopard tanks in design similarities. Weigh 62-68 T due to heavy armor installed on Arjun.


As for indigenous efforts:
All dressed up and no takers: India Today - Latest Breaking News from India, World, Business, Cricket, Sports, Bollywood.

"All dressed up and no takers
Sandeep Unnithan
September 5, 2008
...
Sure, nearly 60 per cent of the components of the first batch of 124 tanks, including the German-built power pack are imported. The DRDO says these will be reduced to under 30 per cent after it builds 500 tanks."

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NEW DELHI — Most of India's homemade Arjun Mark-1 battle tank fleet has been grounded because of technical snags and lack of imported components, an Indian Army official said.

"Nearly 75 percent of the 124 tanks with the Army are grounded," the official added.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...arjun-army-imported-components-drdo/70963382/
Mobility - AK 1_____Arjun 0. But what is more sad is it's power to weight ratio. Heavy so called over weight Arjun has ratio rating of 22.5 : 1... Super light weight AK MK1 stands at 26 :1 :disagree: . Yet I have given 1 point to u. :rolleyes:


Super light at 46-48 tons..:lol:

AK - I has 26:1

Thats higher than arjun,T-90,Abrams etc...

Armour - AK 0______Arjun 1

The Arjun Mark II tank protection includes explosive reactive armour (ERA) system integrated at the front part of the Chassis and the turret.It has enhanced with improved KANCHAN armour,a modular composite armour developed by India.This is the special armour made by sandwiching composite panels between Rolled homogeneous armour (RHA).The armour is capable to defeat APDS,APFSDS and HEAT rounds

And somehow you know everything about AKs modular armour,its composit armour,its NERA,ERA,VARTA APS etc? :lol:

Engine - AK 0_____Arun 1 (200 hp more)


Maybe you can shove that 200hp somewhere the sun doesnt shine... specially when the tank produces a diapointingly low weight to power ratio..

mediocre 22.5 to 1


Fire power Shot Range - AK 0_____Arjun 1 with Fully stablised 120 mm Main Rifles gun

Ironic..:lol:

The low velocity obsolete arjun gun vs 125MM KBA3 inspire AK gun...





and ATGW LAHAT(Stand off effective range 6 KM) While you use 125 mm 39 " shells (Effective stand off range - 4 km) :angel:

Arjun mk1 cant fire lahat... :lol:

AK,AK-I can fire Kombat,Sniper ATGMs.
Ur indigenous T90II



The Type-90-IIM at the origin of the project, also produced under licence by Pakistan
Thats T-90IIM produced under TOT by HIT...


Here is arjun aka clone of leopard:

lep.jpg
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main-qimg-d5a1093290f72d107c3181502fc4170e-c.jpg


My dear chotu bhai
According to “Pakistan Military Consortium” Usman Shabbir, the new Al Khalid integrates components of the Chinese Type 99 MBT, like the SB gun. Heavier, it has a redesigned turret and improved armour modules, new sensors, improved ammunitions, an Integrated Battle Management System (IBMS) and a new 1,500 hp powerpack. It is scheduled for production and also serves as a long-term modernization/upgrade programme for the Al Khalid of 1st generation.

AK-II hasnt even been unveiled...

But insteed Chinese wanted you to buy their T99 /3000 directly and use their components insteed of Ukrainians.

So close you Front and back door. :lol:

AK doesnt use any chinese systems... only ukranian subsystems on AK are its engine and VARTA APS.. :lol:

Hahaha MBT 3000 is around 52-54 T with 100 hp under powered compared To Arjuns 1400 hp .
Moron its weight to power ratio that matters.

MBT 3000 is similar to Type 99G but down graded version. Which is Ur presumed Alkhalid MK2. First picture emerged in 2013?

Sunny... there is no picture of AKII .. expect a general diagram from HIT site:


AK.png
 
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I feel sorry for people who laugh at the failure of others and derive satisfaction from it. Be it people from India, Pakistan or any other country.. I have been reading this forum for many years now. Never understand this attitude.. Our focus as human beings should always be to improve ourselves and focus on what we can do.

Sometimes this forum is very educational for me, Sometime funny but most of the time just shocking...

We are horrible.. All of us.. Indians pointing to the situation in Pakistan and laughing and the other way around... Fighting over few percentage points one of us is better than the other. Look we are better than you because we only have 30% poor and you have 32%, You have all these failed projects, You cant do this, you cant do that.

If this is just the public face of people and they are better in private life, then its ok. Else big concern for our entire south Asian region.

On topic, Arjun is not a failure, neither is Tejas. Same thing for any project that Pakistan is working on. Every project has some outcome and teaches you something. Creates jobs and intellectual capital.. The only time you never fail is when you never try... Bad project management is another subject.
 
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Designed by
weYE10G.jpg



It's by no means an exact copy. And what is the problem with getting help? The main design partner, China, for the JF17 program got help from the Russians for that program. What did you even do then? With that broke budget of yours, whatever garbage industry you have then, even now, what did you do in the 90s in aerospace? So let's not even throw stones from a glass house here.

There were several designs then ---

GIACh9K.jpg

arjun_1.jpg


The German influenced design was chosen.

The newer design for the FMBT -----

lwhKoOX.jpg
 
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while our Arjun costs us 8-9 million due to indigenous efforts and investment and imported best technologies available!

I don't want to comment on this Arjun tank,but this really made my day, higher the cost plus the magical word Western is always better i guess,proud face.
 
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In the mid-1970s, India began development on a totally new, advanced main battle tank that would satisfy the needs of the country’s Armored Corps. An impressive combination of firepower, armor protection and mobility, the tank was to be India’s first indigenously produced tank—and one of the best in the world. The service date for the tank, known as Arjun, was confidently set for 1985.

Instead, the Arjun suffered a tortuously long development period spanning two centuries. The final result, introduced into the army twenty-six years later than originally planned, is a mess of a tank that not even the Indian Army wants.

The Indian Army’s Armored Corps has been in existence for seventy-four years, tracing its roots to the Second World War, and has fought in every one of India’s wars with neighbor and rival Pakistan. The Corps has across has sixty-three armored regiments (the equivalent of battalions), spread across eight armored and mechanized divisions and another seven armored and mechanized brigades.

The decision to produce an indigenous Indian tank was made in 1972, shortly after the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971. In 1974, the state-run Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was tasked with developing the tank. It was to be a forty-ton vehicle, armed with a 105-millimeter gun. It would be small enough to be strategically mobile, capable of being shuttled on internal lines (roads and railroads) to vital sectors along the long border with Pakistan.

DRDO decided to make the tank, called Arjun, a mostly Indian design. The Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment, part of DRDO, was to design the hull, armor, turret, gun and running gear. The main gun and engine would be imported. Unfortunately, India’s defense-industrial base was nowhere near capable of creating such a vehicle. As if that weren’t enough of an obstacle, India’s world-famous bureaucracy and red-tape machine was another enemy to progress.


Today, the Arjun Mk 1 is a sixty-two-ton tank, complete with a 120-millimeter gun, advanced composite armor, a 1,400-horsepower turbocharged engine, and advanced fire control and thermal sights. Although the tank’s specifications are impressive, the actual product leaves a lot to be desired.

By 2009, thirty-five years after it was originally conceived, Arjun was “ready” for production. Despite shortcomings revealed in testing, the Indian Army was forced to buy 124 Arjuns—enough to equip just two armored regiments—to keep state tank production facilities open. By mid-2015, two years after the purchase was complete, nearly 75 percent of the Arjun force was inoperable due to technical problems.

Arjun’s armored protection evolved significantly over thirty-five years. The tank is fitted with Kanchan armor, a locally designed composite blend that is allegedly similar to British Chobham armor. Kanchan is rumored to be capable of shrugging off point-blank shots from the 125-millimeter gun of Indian T-72 tanks. Arjun is so well protected that its weight ballooned from the original forty-ton specification to sixty-two tons.

This increase in protection came at a cost—decreased tactical and operational mobility. As originally specified, a forty-ton tank with a 1,400-horsepower engine would have an impressive 35-to-1 horsepower-to-weight ratio. Unfortunately, Arjun’s weight ballooned from forty to sixty-two tons, with no corresponding increase in engine power. DRDO finally settled on a German-made MTU 1,400-horsepower water-cooled diesel engine, complemented with an Indian supercharger. Arjun’s horsepower-to-weight ratio sank to a mediocre 22.5 to 1. The vehicle’s weight also means it cannot be used in Punjab and the northern deserts of India in India’s “Cold Start” offensive strategy against Pakistan.

The Arjun’s development period was so long that major design decisions became completely obsolete. The 105-millimeter gun, perfectly adequate in the 1970s when stacked up against the NATO-standard 105-millimeter L7 gun (the M68 in U.S. Army service), and the 115-millimeter gun of the Soviet T-62 tank, were obsolete by the early 1990s.

In the end, the Arjun ended up with a 120-millimeter rifled barrel gun, capable of firing High Explosive, Armor-Piercing Discarding Sabot rounds, High Explosive Anti-Tank rounds and, perhaps not unusually for a former British colony, High Explosive, Squash Head rounds. DRDO conducted test firings of the Israeli-made LAHAT long-range antitank missile, which offered a high probability of kill against armored vehicles out to six thousand meters, but the round was droppedin 2014. DRDO claims it will develop an indigenous equivalent.

How did Arjun, which took decades to develop, end up being such a disappointment? The tank took so long to develop that technologies not even invented when Arjun was first proposed had to be added to the tank. GPS navigation, laser warning receivers, non-explosive-reactive armor and other innovations were merely research papers in 1974, but by the early 2000s were must-have inventions that added to the tank’s complexity, weight and cost.

The inability of DRDO to put its foot down and admit that it could not build the tank on time and on schedule doomed the tank. India’s state of the military art was such that a new tank would out of necessity face a prolonged development time. The more the tank project dragged on, the more the tank needed to be redesigned to incorporate new technologies. The tank was trapped for decades in a development death spiral, and the end product is correspondingly mediocre.

DRDO is busy at work designing Arjun Mk II, which will allegedly contain many improvements over the original Mk I. The Indian Army for its part is adamant it wants no part of the Mk II until prototypes perform satisfactorily, and would much rather buy an overseas tank. The army, for now prefers the Russian T-90 tank and may express interest in the brand new T-14 Armata tank. Russian state media has reported that India is interested in the Armata as the basis of a new, localized tank. Whether that’s true remains to be seen.

Kyle Mizokami is a defense and national-security writer based in San Francisco who has appeared in theDiplomat, Foreign Policy, War is Boring and the Daily Beast. In 2009 he cofounded the defense and security blog Japan Security Watch. You can follow him on Twitter: @KyleMizokami.


Results due to trying to put on shoes bigger then their feet. They should follow their neighbor by license building a tank which itself came from another country by customizing indian army needs. After that or simultaneously should try to develop a tank from scratch after having experience with license building tank.
 
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Results due to trying to put on shoes bigger then their feet. They should follow their neighbor by license building a tank which itself came from another country by customizing indian army needs. After that or simultaneously should try to develop a tank from scratch after having experience with license building tank.
Totally agreed,looks like turkey's project is going pretty well compared with Arjun.
 
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It's discussing dinosaurs. I am not sure if they are great offensive assets in modern battlefield.
 
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