What's new

India Took 35 Years to Make Its First Tank (And It Was a Total Disaster)

ARJUN IS NIT ORDERED IN LARGE NOS YET -thats true.
But it doesnt mean its obsolete or junk :)
Those having tiny brains ,understand this with this example-
There are two companies A and B of same profile and same industry.
A has 5 choices -
abc-92out of 100 (score)
Bcd-89
Cde-86
Def-85(indegenous)
Efg-82
While B has only 2 choices-
Xyz-72
Yza-68(indegenous)
..so here B went for yza and complaining A's def to be junk just bcz A has ordered Abc..:) well there are different things that matters a lot..after developing one have to check the performence for a long interval of time and then only some country makes it its first line of defence.. :)
 
.
I found this article on Quora about Arjun MBT, and it seems to contain more detailed information about the Tank than typical rhetoric constantly repeated by so many here. You are free to disagree, but I hope some learnt members can come up with good rebuttal.

Here you go:



Vincent Godenir ., I know a thing or two about AFVs
Written Mar 31

I have to disagree with many of the answers above. The Arjun MKI & II are both very disappointing vehicles, with significantly reduced capabilities compared to other modern third and fourth generation MBTs.

Let´s start with mobility:

The Arjun MkI is powered by a German MTU MB 838 Ka-501 diesel engine. This engine is a modernized version of the MTU MB 838 CaM 500 multi-fuel engine that was first fitted to the Leopard 1 MBT in 1965. Thanks to various upgrades, and the addition of a supercharger, the Ka-501 can reach 1400 hp while the CaM 500 can only reach 800 hp.

So fans of the Arjun MBT (and its manufacturer) would have you believe that this tank has excellent mobility thanks to a hp/weight ratio of 23,5 (slightly below average for a modern MBT but still within acceptable norms).

However, raw engine power is only one of the factors that determines a tank´s mobility. The problem is that because of its outdated design, the Ka-501 engine is big, heavy, extremely fuel inefficient (a pitiful 200km range on good terrain while other MBTs can easily reach 500 km) and has very poor performance in terms of rpm and torque. These problems are worsened by the vehicles heavy weight (58 tons for the MkI and 68 for the MkII, the heaviest MBT in the world), meaning that the Arjun struggles to crest even a slight hill.

main-qimg-79b2e53efde6928ad312a64881d14b2a-c

Big, heavy, and terrible fuel efficiency...

The current version of the MkII still uses the same outdated, crappy engine, although there are plans to upgrade to a modern American Cummins engine coupled with a French suspension. So far, these plans have yet to materialize.



Protection:

On paper, the Arjun´s armor is supposedly quite good. On paper.

The manufacturer of the Arjun MBT claims that its "Kanchan heavy composite armor" is on par to the British Chobham armor from which it was developed. The Arjun MkI&II can also use locally manufactured ERA blocks, said to equal the performance of Russian Kontact-5 ERA from which they were developed as well.

So theoretically, the Arjun´s armor uses excellent materials. The problem here is the design of the armor itself.

The arjun´s gun shield is significantly thinner than other modern MBTs. In addition, the primary gunner sight does not have a extra armor module.

main-qimg-1eb4e1ae314baa4267dbfd3e169cee45-c

Notice how the left side of the turret is completely bereft of any composite armor (those white layers on the other side of the turret front). The gunner sits behind 250mm of spaced steel armor, and that´s it. Any modern APFSDS round will cut through that like it´s butter and vaporize the gunner.

main-qimg-668657023a4011cb89bdfdf489ca33ed-c

Notice the huge weak spot created by the primary gunner sight.

So the turret front is terrible. But the turret sides are even worse.

main-qimg-8b38a94ccd14c9ef9663447d179f5c5e-c

Notice how the vaunted "Kanchan heavy composite armor" (the white layers of armor) leave 2/3rds of the turret sides exposed. The turret sides of the Arjun I&II are literally paper thin. Worse, contrary to what the manufacturer claims there are no blowout panels on the Arjun MBT, nor is it equipped with a separate ammunition compartment.

main-qimg-a5d51be0495b148d89feea029efa49e9-c

Where is that separate ammo compartment you´ve been talking about?

This means that virtually round penetrating the turret will ignite the tank´s ammunition and vaporize it in a big fireball.

Moving on...



Firepower:

If you thought the Arjun was a bad tank before, you haven´seen anything yet.

The Arjun MKI&II both use the same gun: a 120/55 mm rifled gun inspired by the British L30 rifled tank gun used by the British Challenger 2. Proponents of the tanks will tell you that because the gun is rifled, it is more accurate than the smoothbore guns used on the Abrams or the T-90.

That´s bullshit, to put it simple.

A rifled gun applies a spinning motion to the round it fires, meaning those rounds will be more stable when travelling through the air and more accurate over range. However, modern ammunition doesn´t need a rifled barrel to be accurate and stable, since they are equipped with little fins at the end of their penetrator, that apply a spinning motion to the round as it travels through the air. Put simply, modern ammunition spins itself, and doesn´t need a rifled gun to be accurate.

main-qimg-e31f92e1e170125d69d2ee20ef39454e-c

Notice the little fins at the end of the round.

Therefore, the claims that the manufacturer makes about the gun´s accuracy are very doubtful at best. It is claimed that the Arjun has a First Hit Probability (FHP) of 90%, even on the move, thanks to an excellent stabilizing system and Fire Control System (FCS). Comparative trials were conducted between the Arjun MkII and the T-90, where it was claimed that the Arjun MkII outperformed the T-90.

However, Indian Army Generals have since come out to say that those trials were rigged by corrupt defense officials, and that the accuracy of the Arjun MBT is vastly overestimated.

But the worst of all is the penetrating power of the Arjun´s main gun. At 2km, a round fired by the Arjun can only penetrate 300mm of Rolled Homogenous Armour (RHA).

main-qimg-3ca09bd3f0fbfcaf9187ef823dc88fb4-c

This is pitifully bad. At 2km, this tank won´t even be able to penetrate the side armor of most modern MBTs.

As a comparison, most modern APFSDS rounds can penetrate between 700 and 900 mm of armor at 2 km. That´s 3x the penetration of the Arjun.

The poor penetrating power of the Arjun is attributed to poor materials used for the penetrators, a low-pressure firing chamber and a short penetrator length.



Soooo, if we recap:

The mobility of the Arjun is terrible. Its armor is virtually non-existent with huge weak spots all around the turret, and its gun is horrendously inadequate by modern standards.

There is a reason why even the Indian Army refuses to use the bloody thing. Only 100-200 Arjuns have been ordered to placate the government and DRDO (the Arjun manufacturer), while the Army relies on 1250 T-90 and 2500 T-72 MBTs.


https://www.quora.com/How-does-the-Arjun-MBT-compare-with-other-battle-tanks-in-the-world


 
.
Looks kick ***...
23h28ph.jpg


Waiting for the CLGM being fired from that Rifled 120mm Main Gun...
Feel sorry for the bridge for holding up under that ~70ton weight :D
 
. . .
I found this article on Quora about Arjun MBT, and it seems to contain more detailed information about the Tank than typical rhetoric constantly repeated by so many here. You are free to disagree, but I hope some learnt members can come up with good rebuttal.

Here you go:



Vincent Godenir ., I know a thing or two about AFVs
Written Mar 31

I have to disagree with many of the answers above. The Arjun MKI & II are both very disappointing vehicles, with significantly reduced capabilities compared to other modern third and fourth generation MBTs.

Let´s start with mobility:

The Arjun MkI is powered by a German MTU MB 838 Ka-501 diesel engine. This engine is a modernized version of the MTU MB 838 CaM 500 multi-fuel engine that was first fitted to the Leopard 1 MBT in 1965. Thanks to various upgrades, and the addition of a supercharger, the Ka-501 can reach 1400 hp while the CaM 500 can only reach 800 hp.

So fans of the Arjun MBT (and its manufacturer) would have you believe that this tank has excellent mobility thanks to a hp/weight ratio of 23,5 (slightly below average for a modern MBT but still within acceptable norms).

However, raw engine power is only one of the factors that determines a tank´s mobility. The problem is that because of its outdated design, the Ka-501 engine is big, heavy, extremely fuel inefficient (a pitiful 200km range on good terrain while other MBTs can easily reach 500 km) and has very poor performance in terms of rpm and torque. These problems are worsened by the vehicles heavy weight (58 tons for the MkI and 68 for the MkII, the heaviest MBT in the world), meaning that the Arjun struggles to crest even a slight hill.

main-qimg-79b2e53efde6928ad312a64881d14b2a-c

Big, heavy, and terrible fuel efficiency...

The current version of the MkII still uses the same outdated, crappy engine, although there are plans to upgrade to a modern American Cummins engine coupled with a French suspension. So far, these plans have yet to materialize.



Protection:

On paper, the Arjun´s armor is supposedly quite good. On paper.

The manufacturer of the Arjun MBT claims that its "Kanchan heavy composite armor" is on par to the British Chobham armor from which it was developed. The Arjun MkI&II can also use locally manufactured ERA blocks, said to equal the performance of Russian Kontact-5 ERA from which they were developed as well.

So theoretically, the Arjun´s armor uses excellent materials. The problem here is the design of the armor itself.

The arjun´s gun shield is significantly thinner than other modern MBTs. In addition, the primary gunner sight does not have a extra armor module.

main-qimg-1eb4e1ae314baa4267dbfd3e169cee45-c

Notice how the left side of the turret is completely bereft of any composite armor (those white layers on the other side of the turret front). The gunner sits behind 250mm of spaced steel armor, and that´s it. Any modern APFSDS round will cut through that like it´s butter and vaporize the gunner.

main-qimg-668657023a4011cb89bdfdf489ca33ed-c

Notice the huge weak spot created by the primary gunner sight.

So the turret front is terrible. But the turret sides are even worse.

main-qimg-8b38a94ccd14c9ef9663447d179f5c5e-c

Notice how the vaunted "Kanchan heavy composite armor" (the white layers of armor) leave 2/3rds of the turret sides exposed. The turret sides of the Arjun I&II are literally paper thin. Worse, contrary to what the manufacturer claims there are no blowout panels on the Arjun MBT, nor is it equipped with a separate ammunition compartment.

main-qimg-a5d51be0495b148d89feea029efa49e9-c

Where is that separate ammo compartment you´ve been talking about?

This means that virtually round penetrating the turret will ignite the tank´s ammunition and vaporize it in a big fireball.

Moving on...



Firepower:

If you thought the Arjun was a bad tank before, you haven´seen anything yet.

The Arjun MKI&II both use the same gun: a 120/55 mm rifled gun inspired by the British L30 rifled tank gun used by the British Challenger 2. Proponents of the tanks will tell you that because the gun is rifled, it is more accurate than the smoothbore guns used on the Abrams or the T-90.

That´s bullshit, to put it simple.

A rifled gun applies a spinning motion to the round it fires, meaning those rounds will be more stable when travelling through the air and more accurate over range. However, modern ammunition doesn´t need a rifled barrel to be accurate and stable, since they are equipped with little fins at the end of their penetrator, that apply a spinning motion to the round as it travels through the air. Put simply, modern ammunition spins itself, and doesn´t need a rifled gun to be accurate.

main-qimg-e31f92e1e170125d69d2ee20ef39454e-c

Notice the little fins at the end of the round.

Therefore, the claims that the manufacturer makes about the gun´s accuracy are very doubtful at best. It is claimed that the Arjun has a First Hit Probability (FHP) of 90%, even on the move, thanks to an excellent stabilizing system and Fire Control System (FCS). Comparative trials were conducted between the Arjun MkII and the T-90, where it was claimed that the Arjun MkII outperformed the T-90.

However, Indian Army Generals have since come out to say that those trials were rigged by corrupt defense officials, and that the accuracy of the Arjun MBT is vastly overestimated.

But the worst of all is the penetrating power of the Arjun´s main gun. At 2km, a round fired by the Arjun can only penetrate 300mm of Rolled Homogenous Armour (RHA).

main-qimg-3ca09bd3f0fbfcaf9187ef823dc88fb4-c

This is pitifully bad. At 2km, this tank won´t even be able to penetrate the side armor of most modern MBTs.

As a comparison, most modern APFSDS rounds can penetrate between 700 and 900 mm of armor at 2 km. That´s 3x the penetration of the Arjun.

The poor penetrating power of the Arjun is attributed to poor materials used for the penetrators, a low-pressure firing chamber and a short penetrator length.



Soooo, if we recap:

The mobility of the Arjun is terrible. Its armor is virtually non-existent with huge weak spots all around the turret, and its gun is horrendously inadequate by modern standards.

There is a reason why even the Indian Army refuses to use the bloody thing. Only 100-200 Arjuns have been ordered to placate the government and DRDO (the Arjun manufacturer), while the Army relies on 1250 T-90 and 2500 T-72 MBTs.


https://www.quora.com/How-does-the-Arjun-MBT-compare-with-other-battle-tanks-in-the-world


They Say History Repeats Itself... So...
Let me Burst the Bubble : https://defence.pk/threads/arjun-mark-ii-an-israeli-view-must-read.95660/
 
.
1f02cf17.jpg


In the mid-1970s, India began development on a totally new, advanced main battle tank that would satisfy the needs of the country’s Armored Corps. An impressive combination of firepower, armor protection and mobility, the tank was to be India’s first indigenously produced tank—and one of the best in the world. The service date for the tank, known as Arjun, was confidently set for 1985.

Instead, the Arjun suffered a tortuously long development period spanning two centuries. The final result, introduced into the army twenty-six years later than originally planned, is a mess of a tank that not even the Indian Army wants.

The Indian Army’s Armored Corps has been in existence for seventy-four years, tracing its roots to the Second World War, and has fought in every one of India’s wars with neighbor and rival Pakistan. The Corps has across has sixty-three armored regiments (the equivalent of battalions), spread across eight armored and mechanized divisions and another seven armored and mechanized brigades.

The decision to produce an indigenous Indian tank was made in 1972, shortly after the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971. In 1974, the state-run Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was tasked with developing the tank. It was to be a forty-ton vehicle, armed with a 105-millimeter gun. It would be small enough to be strategically mobile, capable of being shuttled on internal lines (roads and railroads) to vital sectors along the long border with Pakistan.

DRDO decided to make the tank, called Arjun, a mostly Indian design. The Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment, part of DRDO, was to design the hull, armor, turret, gun and running gear. The main gun and engine would be imported. Unfortunately, India’s defense-industrial base was nowhere near capable of creating such a vehicle. As if that weren’t enough of an obstacle, India’s world-famous bureaucracy and red-tape machine was another enemy to progress.


Today, the Arjun Mk 1 is a sixty-two-ton tank, complete with a 120-millimeter gun, advanced composite armor, a 1,400-horsepower turbocharged engine, and advanced fire control and thermal sights. Although the tank’s specifications are impressive, the actual product leaves a lot to be desired.

By 2009, thirty-five years after it was originally conceived, Arjun was “ready” for production. Despite shortcomings revealed in testing, the Indian Army was forced to buy 124 Arjuns—enough to equip just two armored regiments—to keep state tank production facilities open. By mid-2015, two years after the purchase was complete, nearly 75 percent of the Arjun force was inoperable due to technical problems.

Arjun’s armored protection evolved significantly over thirty-five years. The tank is fitted with Kanchan armor, a locally designed composite blend that is allegedly similar to British Chobham armor. Kanchan is rumored to be capable of shrugging off point-blank shots from the 125-millimeter gun of Indian T-72 tanks. Arjun is so well protected that its weight ballooned from the original forty-ton specification to sixty-two tons.

This increase in protection came at a cost—decreased tactical and operational mobility. As originally specified, a forty-ton tank with a 1,400-horsepower engine would have an impressive 35-to-1 horsepower-to-weight ratio. Unfortunately, Arjun’s weight ballooned from forty to sixty-two tons, with no corresponding increase in engine power. DRDO finally settled on a German-made MTU 1,400-horsepower water-cooled diesel engine, complemented with an Indian supercharger. Arjun’s horsepower-to-weight ratio sank to a mediocre 22.5 to 1. The vehicle’s weight also means it cannot be used in Punjab and the northern deserts of India in India’s “Cold Start” offensive strategy against Pakistan.

The Arjun’s development period was so long that major design decisions became completely obsolete. The 105-millimeter gun, perfectly adequate in the 1970s when stacked up against the NATO-standard 105-millimeter L7 gun (the M68 in U.S. Army service), and the 115-millimeter gun of the Soviet T-62 tank, were obsolete by the early 1990s.

In the end, the Arjun ended up with a 120-millimeter rifled barrel gun, capable of firing High Explosive, Armor-Piercing Discarding Sabot rounds, High Explosive Anti-Tank rounds and, perhaps not unusually for a former British colony, High Explosive, Squash Head rounds. DRDO conducted test firings of the Israeli-made LAHAT long-range antitank missile, which offered a high probability of kill against armored vehicles out to six thousand meters, but the round was droppedin 2014. DRDO claims it will develop an indigenous equivalent.

How did Arjun, which took decades to develop, end up being such a disappointment? The tank took so long to develop that technologies not even invented when Arjun was first proposed had to be added to the tank. GPS navigation, laser warning receivers, non-explosive-reactive armor and other innovations were merely research papers in 1974, but by the early 2000s were must-have inventions that added to the tank’s complexity, weight and cost.

The inability of DRDO to put its foot down and admit that it could not build the tank on time and on schedule doomed the tank. India’s state of the military art was such that a new tank would out of necessity face a prolonged development time. The more the tank project dragged on, the more the tank needed to be redesigned to incorporate new technologies. The tank was trapped for decades in a development death spiral, and the end product is correspondingly mediocre.

DRDO is busy at work designing Arjun Mk II, which will allegedly contain many improvements over the original Mk I. The Indian Army for its part is adamant it wants no part of the Mk II until prototypes perform satisfactorily, and would much rather buy an overseas tank. The army, for now prefers the Russian T-90 tank and may express interest in the brand new T-14 Armata tank. Russian state media has reported that India is interested in the Armata as the basis of a new, localized tank. Whether that’s true remains to be seen.

Kyle Mizokami is a defense and national-security writer based in San Francisco who has appeared in theDiplomat, Foreign Policy, War is Boring and the Daily Beast. In 2009 he cofounded the defense and security blog Japan Security Watch. You can follow him on Twitter: @KyleMizokami.


I can myself defy a dozen points from the article. But guess what... im too lazy :

Lets get into the real world.. and Real Views of Tank Designers and Real Tank vs tank Performance.


https://defence.pk/threads/arjun-mark-ii-an-israeli-view-must-read.95660/

and

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...runs-outguns-russian-t-90-110032500022_1.html

And the Final Nail to the Coffin :

6LE0Qcf.png
 
. .
Back
Top Bottom