India to retire first Kilo-class submarine this year

[Ghost Hobbit]

lol do you have any missile to attack Pakistan from Arctic circle, first develop those you imaginary missiles than talk can i post the specifications of your subs and Virginia class subs lol

K-4 (missile) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

K-4 is a nuclear capable Intermediate-range submarine-launched ballistic missile developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation of India to arm the Arihant-class submarines.[7] The missile has a maximum range of about 3,500 km.[5][8]
India successfully test fired the 3,500 km strike range nuclear-capable K-4 submarine-launched ballistic missile off the coast of Andhra Pradesh on 19 January 2020.[13][14][15]
The missile has completed trials and is ready for induction.[16]

Indian nuclear subs can attack you from the arctic/ antarctic today

 

[White and Green with M/S]

K-4 (missile) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

K-4 is a nuclear capable Intermediate-range submarine-launched ballistic missile developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation of India to arm the Arihant-class submarines.[7] The missile has a maximum range of about 3,500 km.[5][8]
India successfully test fired the 3,500 km strike range nuclear-capable K-4 submarine-launched ballistic missile off the coast of Andhra Pradesh on 19 January 2020.[13][14][15]
The missile has completed trials and is ready for induction.[16]

Indian nuclear subs can attack you from the arctic/ antarctic today

LOL go to google earth and measures the distance from Arctic/Antarctic to Pakistan than talk, you only able to fire it from western pacific and middle Indian Ocean lol use your brain if you have

 

[Yasser76]

LOL go to google earth and measures the distance from Arctic/Antarctic to Pakistan than talk, you only able to fire it from western pacific and middle Indian Ocean lol use your brain if you have

Forget it, he has been infected by Covid or something, ranting like a madman. India can now fire ICBRMs at Pakistan from Artic. Many has lost all credibility.

 

[Ghost Hobbit]

LOL go to google earth and measures the distance from Arctic/Antarctic to Pakistan than talk, you only able to fire it from western pacific and middle Indian Ocean lol use your brain if you have

Forget it, he has been infected by Covid or something, ranting like a madman. India can now fire ICBRMs at Pakistan from Artic. Many has lost all credibility.

Distance between Arctic and Pakistan is about 2500 KM. Our missiles have a range of 3500 plus.

 

[Yasser76]

Distance between Arctic and Pakistan is about 2500 KM. Our missiles have a range of 3500 plus.

So you have a fully functioning sub and missile system with secure systems in service that can launch from thwere?

Tell me yes or no, simple question....

 

[vishwambhar]

Harsh facts, that is something you seem keen on overlooking.

ON right now has 5 subs all with an average age higher then India's subs. (Harsh facts)
PN's 3 subs have AIP, India;s conventional subs have none (harsh facts)
Calling 40 year old Type 209s and Kilos "subs" is a push but lets give you that allowence.
PAF has 7 F-7/Mirage units but this is a sub thread, so try not to digress.


Not a question of resources really is it? It's how you use them. See Feb 27th for further details.

Saudi has 8 times the defence budget of Israel, but guess who I would back in any confrontation?

Simply put, counting tanks and planes does not make one a power, it takes much more then that.....


Go to bed kid.

This is really good.... First you bring India's MiG 21s into sub related thread in post 36 and when someone replies you with F7 you ask him to not to digress....

 

[Euro fighter]

No, you talked about "harsh facts" but when I present them the essence of your reply is "we have more money". That simply makes no sense as you can see, last 20 years have shown the disasters in India defence procurement and the clusterf**k of home made projects.

Now for another dose of reality.

1) China is currently building submarines for Pakistan. Not only this, a few years ago it actually built another construction site so it can churn out more subs. Currently it is building

Read the below, it may teach you something

" The subs are known to include versions of the current Type-039A Yuan Class AIP (Air Independent Power) submarines. Evidence seen by the author shows that several boats are being constructed at once. This means a much greater capacity than many other submarine yards around the world. "

China Increases Production Of AIP Submarines With Massive New Shipyard - Naval News

New intelligence confirms that China has ramped up submarine construction at a new site near the city of Wuhan. The Type-039A Yuan class submarines are replacing older types in the Chinese Navy's (PLAN) order of battle. Together with new nuclear powered submarines they are helping to transform...

www.navalnews.com

2) Number of contracts India has placed for conventional subs after the Scorpenes? = ZERO.

If your only reliance is "curve balls" that will somehow stop Pak sub programme and magic another 8 subs out of think air for India, than good luck. I think a few months ago many Indians had the same attitide about Covid.....

Yasser

The priority is SSBN subs please see article
Indian Navy to get bigger, improved and better-armed SSBN ARIGHAT early next year (republicworld.com)

India aiming to have 4 operational SSBN by 2024

They have arihant at sea now armed with 15 SRBM or 4 IRBM depending on patrol
Arighat is finishing seas Trials end of 2021

2 more boats classified S4 and carrying 8 IRBM each ( range 3500 km ) enterimg service well before 2028

Finally new order for 6 new generation SSBN now priority over Project 75I conventional subs

Submarines May Sink Indian Navy’s Plans For Future Aircraft Carrier (forbes.com)

This means your 11 conventinal AIP quoted small 2000 tonne subs could face 4 Arihant class 6000 tonne subs and 6 new class of 13000 tonne subs . post 2030 . Not with standing further 14 to 17 conventional Subs

Dont Forget

Those 11 AIP subs will have to face P8 posideon armed maritime planes , predator combat drone Romeo helicopters arriving now and by 2028 up to 12 Karmota Corvettes .
They are also inducting more Talwar class Frigates Vizag class destroyers

Anti submarine warefare by india is multi dimensional

Just before you state where are they here you go

After Predators, defence ministry clears 10 more drones for Indian Navy - India News (indiatoday.in)

India signs deal with Russia to acquire second Akula-Class nuclear attack submarine | India News – India TV (indiatvnews.com)

All of a sudden those 11 AIP subs dont look too hot now im fraid

The indian Navy is a beast in growing

 

[Yasser76]

Yasser

The priority is SSBN subs please see article
Indian Navy to get bigger, improved and better-armed SSBN ARIGHAT early next year (republicworld.com)

India aiming to have 4 operational SSBN by 2024

They have arihant at sea now armed with 15 SRBM or 4 IRBM depending on patrol
Arighat is finishing seas Trials end of 2021

2 more boats classified S4 and carrying 8 IRBM each ( range 3500 km ) enterimg service well before 2028

Finally new order for 6 new generation SSBN now priority over Project 75I conventional subs

Submarines May Sink Indian Navy’s Plans For Future Aircraft Carrier (forbes.com)

This means your 11 conventinal AIP quoted small 2000 tonne subs could face 4 Arihant class 6000 tonne subs and 6 new class of 13000 tonne subs . post 2030 . Not with standing further 14 to 17 conventional Subs

Dont Forget

Those 11 AIP subs will have to face P8 posideon armed maritime planes , predator combat drone Romeo helicopters arriving now and by 2028 up to 12 Karmota Corvettes .
They are also inducting more Talwar class Frigates Vizag class destroyers

Anti submarine warefare by india is multi dimensional

Just before you state where are they here you go

View attachment 737043


View attachment 737044
View attachment 737045

After Predators, defence ministry clears 10 more drones for Indian Navy - India News (indiatoday.in)

India signs deal with Russia to acquire second Akula-Class nuclear attack submarine | India News – India TV (indiatvnews.com)

All of a sudden those 11 AIP subs dont look too hot now im fraid

The indian Navy is a beast in growing

It's great how you manage to bring in the entire Indian Navy into a simple thread about Subs.

Yes, India has other military assets, but typically you try to change the subject when losing the debate.

In terms of conventional subs India's historic edge is being eroded. Again, you claim you deal in "harsh facts" but then go on to claim "Intended deals" or "could face".

Fact of the matter is 8 Hangor subs are not "intended" or "could be", like many Indian projects. they are BEING MADE.

5 Years from now PN will have a 11 sub fleet all equipped with AIP and all much much younger then India's.

India may well have 14 convenional subs, most of which will be 40 years old.

"Harsh facts"

 

[Euro fighter]

It's great how you manage to bring in the entire Indian Navy into a simple thread about Subs.

Yes, India has other military assets, but typically you try to change the subject when losing the debate.

In terms of conventional subs India's historic edge is being eroded. Again, you claim you deal in "harsh facts" but then go on to claim "Intended deals" or "could face".

Fact of the matter is 8 Hangor subs are not "intended" or "could be", like many Indian projects. they are BEING MADE.

5 Years from now PN will have a 11 sub fleet all equipped with AIP and all much much younger then India's.

India may well have 14 convenional subs, most of which will be 40 years old.

"Harsh facts"

Yes lets exclude the indian Navy nuclear submarine fleet of 4 Arihant class & 2 Akula class by 2028 because you wish to keep the thread simple as you call. it.
Lets exclude the indian entire anti submarine warefare capability by ignornmg the Ships drones and helicopters .

Simply compare IF you do manage to find the $5 billion dollars or equivalent barter programme whatever you agree to give them and they deliver on time your assessment is as follows

3 AIP Agosta Subs french subs designed in the 1980 s @ 2000 tonnes approx
8 chinease subs Aip equipped 1800 tonnes brand new less than decade old technology

versis

6 scorpene subs designed in the last 15 years and french technology next generation from your Agosta 2000 tonnes
7 kilo 30 year technology all having had their final refit at 3000 tonnes russian technology
4 german subs from 1980s

Is the chinease technology superior to French .......
is 11 AIP equipped better than 17 non AIP
is the weapons missles sonar stealth superior on Agosta and Type 039 then the new Scorpene or tried tested proven Russian & German subs all having had one upgrade .

Finally how good are your sub commanders and the rest of your anti sub force multipliers

its not sub versis Sub

its Navy versis Navy

 

[Yasser76]

Yes lets exclude the indian Navy nuclear submarine fleet of 4 Arihant class & 2 Akula class by 2028 because you wish to keep the thread simple as you call. it.
Lets exclude the indian entire anti submarine warefare capability by ignornmg the Ships drones and helicopters .

Simply compare IF you do manage to find the $5 billion dollars or equivalent barter programme whatever you agree to give them and they deliver on time your assessment is as follows

3 AIP Agosta Subs french subs designed in the 1980 s @ 2000 tonnes approx
8 chinease subs Aip equipped 1800 tonnes brand new less than decade old technology

versis

6 scorpene subs designed in the last 15 years and french technology next generation from your Agosta 2000 tonnes
7 kilo 30 year technology all having had their final refit at 3000 tonnes russian technology
4 german subs from 1980s

Is the chinease technology superior to French .......
is 11 AIP equipped better than 17 non AIP
is the weapons missles sonar stealth superior on Agosta and Type 039 then the new Scorpene or tried tested proven Russian & German subs all having had one upgrade .

Finally how good are your sub commanders and the rest of your anti sub force multipliers

its not sub versis Sub

its Navy versis Navy

One

1) Look into the 3 upgraded A90Bs, the sonar and combat systems are better then anything in the IN right now
2) Is Chinese tech superior to the French? Even the USN are on record as saying that much Chinese sub tech is equal if not better then US tech. Hard to make comparisons as much of both countries remains classified (well, maybe not much of the Scorpese tech after leaks)
3) 11 AIP gives you much better endurance then 11 non AIP. India is due to have 14 subs soon not 17 (4 had had final refit, not 7, but like the way you creep in some lies amongst the truths you post)


It is not sub v sub, agreed, but then we get into a far larger scope. Navy v Navy, IN is very big, however IN does not have videos of cording PN subs to surface on two separate occasions.....

 

[Paro_Peagus]

Yes lets exclude the indian Navy nuclear submarine fleet of 4 Arihant class & 2 Akula class by 2028 because you wish to keep the thread simple as you call. it.
Lets exclude the indian entire anti submarine warefare capability by ignornmg the Ships drones and helicopters .

Simply compare IF you do manage to find the $5 billion dollars or equivalent barter programme whatever you agree to give them and they deliver on time your assessment is as follows

3 AIP Agosta Subs french subs designed in the 1980 s @ 2000 tonnes approx
8 chinease subs Aip equipped 1800 tonnes brand new less than decade old technology

versis

6 scorpene subs designed in the last 15 years and french technology next generation from your Agosta 2000 tonnes
7 kilo 30 year technology all having had their final refit at 3000 tonnes russian technology
4 german subs from 1980s

Is the chinease technology superior to French .......
is 11 AIP equipped better than 17 non AIP
is the weapons missles sonar stealth superior on Agosta and Type 039 then the new Scorpene or tried tested proven Russian & German subs all having had one upgrade .

Finally how good are your sub commanders and the rest of your anti sub force multipliers

its not sub versis Sub

its Navy versis Navy

In the present warfare, you don't use Sub to sub. Pakistani Subs would be countered by Indian navy AWS aircraft. If you notice India only posts around 4 subs in the western fleet ideally because it thinks Pakistan subs aren't a real threat. Also btw for all the chest trumping by the Pakistanis, only one sub is active as of 2020. 2 are in dry docks other one hasnt move off the pier in years.

Now coming to Indian subs AIP. This is given the least priority as of now that's why the last 2 subs weren’t also equipped and postponed for the Drdo module. This is because Sub warfare in IOR is kind of different compared to the cold war. AWS aircraft first detect a Sub and then forces are sent to sink it in the area from multiple directions. Indian Sub's primary task is locating different Pakistani assets in the area only, Not engaging them. If you didn't know until recently scorpions ventured out to sea with no torpedoes and only anti-ship missiles.

Now coming to Nuclear boats, the S2 and S3 are of the same size and can be converted as SSNs once S5 starts rolling out in 2027. The reason, they were initially designed to be SSNs in the first place the Hull design is actually of a conventional boat. Akula is only used for training and reconnaissance as of now. it's not armed yet, will be in 2023 after IN buys it off, at least that's what I heard. Also, S4 is in water so that means S5 hull fabrication started. but the first SSNs will only show up from 2034. Until then S2, S3 S4, and S4* will be used as SSNs, And from 2027 S5 series as SSBNs with K5 or K6 (whatever they call it).

Oh and btw a new fishwook is coming up in the western seaboard in few years. But that's a whole different topic.

 

[Euro fighter]

One

1) Look into the 3 upgraded A90Bs, the sonar and combat systems are better then anything in the IN right now
2) Is Chinese tech superior to the French? Even the USN are on record as saying that much Chinese sub tech is equal if not better then US tech. Hard to make comparisons as much of both countries remains classified (well, maybe not much of the Scorpese tech after leaks)
3) 11 AIP gives you much better endurance then 11 non AIP. India is due to have 14 subs soon not 17 (4 had had final refit, not 7, but like the way you creep in some lies amongst the truths you post)


It is not sub v sub, agreed, but then we get into a far larger scope. Navy v Navy, IN is very big, however IN does not have videos of cording PN subs to surface on two separate occasions.....

I dont know why but you have weird ability to simply ignore basic facts

How can a 30 years Agosta 90b be better than scorpene which is the next generation from Agosta

Where do you get your logic from

here see for yourself
domain-b.com : Scorpene v/s. Agosta: Silent killers of the deep

Now do you want me to compare the Akula class & Arihant class too . You are aware these 6000 tonne vessels over 3 times the size and multiple firepower and endurance .

Re . Your AIP equipped do you have any idea when pakistan is getting even one

Do you realise it needs 1 year to sea trials even now i dont see type 039 in combat service until 2024 after sea trial.

no way your getting 8 certainly not by 2028

 

[Yasser76]

I dont know why but you have weird ability to simply ignore basic facts

How can a 30 years Agosta 90b be better than scorpene which is the next generation from Agosta

Where do you get your logic from

here see for yourself
domain-b.com : Scorpene v/s. Agosta: Silent killers of the deep

Now do you want me to compare the Akula class & Arihant class too . You are aware these 6000 tonne vessels over 3 times the size and multiple firepower and endurance .

Re . Your AIP equipped do you have any idea when pakistan is getting even one

Do you realise it needs 1 year to sea trials even now i dont see type 039 in combat service until 2024 after sea trial.

no way your getting 8 certainly not by 2028

For someone who professes "harsh facts" and accuses me of ignoring facts, let me do another lesson for you (again).

1. India chose the design and equipment for it's Scorpenes in 2005. Can you do maths? I will help you out, that is 16 years ago.

2. PN Agosta 90B upgrade programme was specced out 4 years ago and is proceeding as we speak. So guess sonar tech and equipment has not changed in 16 years right? Can you process this?

You can read about the scope of the upgrade here

Despite French Sanctions, Turkey Making Progress in Pak’s Agosta 90B Sub Upgrade

Turkish firm STM has said that it is making progress in the modernization of Pakistan’s Agosta 90B submarines despite “sanctions and restrictions” imposed by France whose Naval Group was the submarine’s manufacturer. “This project is progressing very successfully despite the sanctions and...

www.defenseworld.net

3. The 2028 date was set by PN and China, so I guess you know better then them. Right now China is churning out around 10 subs a year. 4 subs will be made in China and 4 in Pakistan. The programme started in 2016.

" In August 2016, the Chief Project Director of the Navy’s new submarine program disclosed to the National Assembly’s Standing Committee on Defence that the first four of these submarines are due in 2022-2023, and the remaining four by 2028. "

Profile: Pakistan’s New Hangor Submarine

The Pakistan Navy has eight Hangor submarines on order from China. The first four will be inducted in 2022-2023, and the last four by 2028.

quwa.org

Better you start posting facts rather then ranting my friend. I feel embaressed for you....

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Distance between Arctic and Pakistan is about 2500 KM. Our missiles have a range of 3500 plus.

Again lol, distance between Moscow and Islamabad is 4000+ Km go search google maps first LOL

 

[Surya 1]

No, PN does not operate these as frontline, but in training role. PN strength will be 8 Hangor and 3 Agosta 90B. All with AIP.

Agosta with AIP are great boomers.