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India to challenge China more: Indian experts

its very funny .....

most chinese think about India .....

they must remember India started to reform in 1992 and they have started in 1978 so almost 1 decade of Gap ....

so if you compare china of 2000 to india of 2010 that would be a fair comparison on most benchmarks ,,,,

and when you will compare 2020 india to nowdays china that gap would have shortened ... from 10 years to 5-6 years on most human and tech. factors ...

now if most ppl think that india is not a fair comparison you should look what ur...
commie govt is doing...


investing in failed states to contain india...

even blocking terrotist org from banning in UN

not supporting india's bid to UNSC

giving new military techs to pakistan...

i think ur govt. disagrees...

pak is in the list of failed states ALONGE many other countries because of its corrupt politicians , these parties alternately govern pak --

if india should get a seat in unsc , pak should also get a seat as it represents a big peaceful muslim country [and all the muslim countries] which also happens to be a nuclear power:wave:

on 1 side , indians say china's weapons are 3rd rate -- but , then why are you concerned with what pak gets from china?:blink:

kashmir was a piece of land with 99.9% muslim population -- the emperor of kashmir promised it to be a part of pak , just like all the other 5 provinces of muslim majority were to be converted to pak as per the wishes of the inhabitants of these lands
 
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pak is in the list of failed states ALONGE many other countries because of its corrupt politicians , these parties alternately govern pak --

if india should get a seat in unsc , pak should also get a seat as it represents a big peaceful muslim country [and all the muslim countries] which also happens to be a nuclear power:wave:

on 1 side , indians say china's weapons are 3rd rate -- but , then why are you concerned with what pak gets from china?:blink:

kashmir was a piece of land with 99.9% muslim population -- the emperor of kashmir promised it to be a part of pak , just like all the other 5 provinces of muslim majority were to be converted to pak as per the wishes of the inhabitants of these lands
i never said pak is a failed state. ...

and second thing ....

i dont have objection if muslim countries want pakistan to represent them in UNSC ...

and about chinese weapons ....JF-17 is based on Mig design with russian engines for now ... so basically this is a russian horse ...

i dont have any doubt on chinese capacity to manufacture weapons ...

they can reverse engineer pretty nicely ... so yes these weapons supplied to Pak is a threat to India ... even if these reverse engg.. weapons work on 80% capacity to its dad ...
 
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its very funny .....

most chinese think about India .....

they must remember India started to reform in 1992 and they have started in 1978 so almost 1 decade of Gap ....

so if you compare china of 2000 to india of 2010 that would be a fair comparison on most benchmarks ,,,,

and when you will compare 2020 india to nowdays china that gap would have shortened ... from 10 years to 5-6 years on most human and tech. factors ...

now if most ppl think that india is not a fair comparison you should look what ur...
commie govt is doing...


investing in failed states to contain india...

even blocking terrotist org from banning in UN

not supporting india's bid to UNSC

giving new military techs to pakistan...

i think ur govt. disagrees...

If you think it was the reforms that pulled China ahead of India, think this:

China in 1975 has achieved more than India had in 1980. We already had an indigenous fighter, indigenous tank, nuclear submarine, genetic engineering technology, lower illiteracy, higher average calorie intake and longer lifespan.
 
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If you think it was the reforms that pulled China ahead of India, think this:

China in 1975 has achieved more than India had in 1980. We already had an indigenous fighter, indigenous tank, nuclear submarine, genetic engineering technology, lower illiteracy, higher average calorie intake and longer lifespan.
you can check the comparison... in 80s both were almost same ...and note one thing around 2000 chinese GDP were almost same as India's in 2007 ...
Country Subject Description Units Scale 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007
China Gross domestic product per capita, current prices Units US dollars 311.634 290.821 275.215 291.607 296.185 288.385 274.844 294.045 361.241 398.481 339.160 350.613 412.258 517.415 466.605 601.010 699.414 770.589 817.144 861.211 945.601 1038.034 1131.805 1269.832 1485.852 1702.847 1926.470 2136.407
China Gross domestic product, current prices Billions US dollars 307.599 291.031 279.767 300.378 309.089 305.259 295.477 321.391 401.072 449.104 387.772 406.090 483.047 613.225 559.226 727.950 856.006 952.649 1019.477 1083.283 1198.483 1324.812 1453.837 1640.966 1931.642 2224.811 2529.563 2819.249
India Gross domestic product per capita, current prices Units US dollars 265.984 280.901 284.738 301.127 295.775 300.225 323.437 349.496 375.296 365.871 387.237 336.689 331.938 317.719 354.112 394.101 408.947 437.043 431.556 452.121 464.267 467.321 477.806 547.672 623.179 713.677 769.457 824.333
India Gross domestic product, current prices Billions US dollars 175.549 189.679 196.113 211.994 212.736 220.665 242.901 268.064 294.139 292.971 316.663 281.052 282.729 275.780 314.098 356.859 377.662 411.476 414.078 442.287 462.643 474.097 493.335 575.330 665.867 775.410 849.905 925.426
 
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If you think it was the reforms that pulled China ahead of India, think this:

China in 1975 has achieved more than India had in 1980. We already had an indigenous fighter, indigenous tank, nuclear submarine, genetic engineering technology, lower illiteracy, higher average calorie intake and longer lifespan.

Surely you've heard this argument before. ie The only difference between China and India is that China started its reforms 12 years earlier, and therefore India must also be able to follow China's trajectory.

The corollary in Indian thinking goes, we Chinese are too proud, they are just as good if not better than us Chinese, if India got in the game a little late, nevermind, Indians are creative and free, and we Chinese are unintelligent and slavish copiers and thus inevitably this long term advantage will see India pass China (which probably will disintegrate anyways because that is the fate of all communist governments)
 
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India?s Superpower Delusions | OPEN Magazine

4586.war2.jpg

For a man to be superman, he must first overcome himself —Nietzsche

There is a thin line between the audacity of hope and grasp of reality. India’s middle-class, with its fond dream of India as a Superpower, is like a trapeze artist walking that very thin line. Despair too much, and your case is hopeless. Daydream too much, and you topple into a delusionary void.

Over the past decade or so, it’s the latter which has been the bigger danger. India the Infotech Iron-pumper. India the Nuclear Non-aggressor. India the Space Scorcher. India the Cricket Conqueror. India the Massive Market. India the Enormous Economy. India the Growth Giant… you get the drift. With a flying cape and coloured briefs, it’s an India ready to make the world spin the other way round on its axis. At the top level, the dream was articulated by an optimist-in-residence at the Rashtrapati Bhavan itself, former President APJ Abdul Kalam. With his technocratic training straight from the rah-rah realm of rocket science, he went forth and set a deadline: 2020. And then got little children all across the land waving little tricolours to pledge their support.

The Millennium Goal to beat all millennium goals! The future that was promised! The glory that was destined! Each success has brought another bout of delirium, India’s lunar mission being a fine example. There’s ice on the moon, Jai Hind!

So many have grown so fixated on the target, that should we miss our date with Superpowerhood, we might need group psychotherapy for decades to come. But delusions of grandeur, some think, are best cured by grander delusions of grandeur. So, with some digital jugglery—Infotech Imperialism has its privileges—the deadline has been reset to 2012. As if the poor hungry child in drought-ridden Bundelkhand just has to wait for the clock to tick past the midnight of 31 December 2011, and he’ll be reborn in the land of milk and honey.

THE WILL TO POWER

That a sizzling economy can fuel hysteria has been a new learning. In a way, this is understandable. For a generation of Indians who remember the humiliation of PL-480 food aid from America, a five-year wait list for a scooter, a phone as a symbol of authority, and a working phone as a sign of cosmic rarity, the emergence into this bright new world of choice and plentitude is cause enough for exhilaration. And with $280 billion in the treasure chest and a nuclear bomb in the basement, nobody dare take it away.

The ‘Hindu rate of growth’ of 3 per cent has been replaced by a robust 8 per cent. There is ‘feel good’ in the air, and it is making us heady. “There is a feeling that the next generation will be better than the previous one,” says Pratap Bhanu Mehta, president of Centre for Policy Research, a think-tank, “In itself, the fantasy is not a bad thing, but to believe that you have arrived can be dangerous. India has a very vast underclass and this just cannot be wished away.”

One aspect of the fantasy is the belief that India has finally secured a seat at the high table of global power. After all, the G-8 has become the G-20, coordinating stimulus packages to save the world. As for wielding a veto over world affairs, don’t forget India has achieved parity with the Big Five, having found a cosy place in the Nuclear Club at long last, even if the official membership card is still in the mail.

With heft such as this, it is puzzling to have Bangladesh defy India in letting terror camps run amok. Or ragtag pirates thumbing their nose at Indian flag carriers on the high seas. Or even Indians opting for foreign citizenship at the slightest chance. As any international traveller will tell you, all passports are not created with equal prestige. Perhaps it is no surprise that non-resident Indians have played a big role in formulating the fantasy. Oblivious to starvation deaths in Madhya Pradesh but delighted to find Laxmi Mittal as Britain’s richest man, unaware of the scarcity of potable water in Uttar Pradesh but at their loudest holding wine glasses the size of watermelons, they have become India’s cheerleaders. India’s moment, they exult, has come. If only.

“Nation building is a hard grind,” says Lord Bhikhu Parekh, political scientist, “Rhetoric, on the other hand, is easy. The Superpower Fantasy thus is an escape from reality. In the Nehruvian era, elections were won on the premise that ‘we cannot offer you a great today but hard work will assure that your tomorrow is better’. This has been replaced by the rhetoric of ‘India Shining’.”

This is not the first time that India’s elite has been in a euphoric mood. In 1947, Nehru’s ‘Tryst with Destiny’ had everyone agog. It was supposed to turn this ancient civilisation into a beacon of enlightenment for the world. The 1962 humiliation by China was a cold shower, and a bitterly sobering one at that. In 1971, it resurfaced. India famously won its first war in a thousand years and split Pakistan. Internally, Indira Gandhi’s ‘Garibi Hatao’ was the great new adrenalin shot. It ended in a nightmare called the Emergency. Today’s delusion has its origin in the BJP’s atomic muscle flexing at Pokhran. From ‘desert vibrating’, the country was taken in five years to ‘India Shining’—a slogan that lost an election but gave the middle-class an ego kick. Resplendence, it would seem, is like transcendence. Fold your legs, chant the mantra, and you’re there.

GET REAL ON THE VISION THING

So, can India realistically hope to be a superpower by 2020 or even 2050? This is not a prefix one can buy with $280 billion in hard currency or wrest with a bomb. If power is the ability to exert one’s will, a superpower is understood as having the ability to exert itself globally, or at least beyond one’s territorial borders. In world history, expansive empires have done this, from the Persian, Greek, Roman and Mongol expanses to the latter-day Chinese, Russian and British empires. From the mid-20th century onwards, America has been the Big Superpower.

Only, the information revolution of the modern era has been making it harder and harder to exert power without the consent of those affected, most pertinently that of people within one’s own borders. In other words, there is no question of achieving or sustaining real power—super or not—if the basic aspirations of your own citizens go unfulfilled.

After decades of adhering to Mao’s four-word ‘keep a low profile’ dictum, China has just begun to assert itself globally. America is America, of course, still in charge. So, where does that leave India?

For one, with an urgent need to align vision with realism. To be sure, given the grim scenario in South Asia, India has the makings of a regional power. Missiles and money count, but one neighbour neutralises the warheads and the other has more moolah. This limits India’s influence in its immediate littoral, the big reason why the ‘super’ prefix eludes the country. Can India overcome Pakistan, at the very least, as a critical constraint?

In 2009, India was the world’s second largest arms importer. But it’s still an importer. Frontline tanks, fighter jets and warships, they’re all foreign made. This means dependency. China, in contrast, is now among the world’s five top arms exporters. India’s own defence development efforts since 1947, barring the odd missile, so far have been a scandalous waste. This tardiness retards the country’s power projection capability in hard military terms.

Then, there is the question of economic emergence. At last count, this country of 1.14 billon people had the world’s largest number of malnourished children. India also has more people who can’t write their name, more malaria deaths and more jobless youth than any other country. To most statisticians at human development organisations, the very aspiration of superpowerdom is a crude joke.

Gung-ho Indians, meanwhile, are counting on the ‘demographic dividend’. By this conventional wisdom, India will still be youthfully energetic while the developed world ages into its drone years. This view ignores the fact that a majority of India’s young are illiterate and underfed, and unfit to do anything except the most ill-paid of jobs. The dividend could well turn out to be a disaster.

The third superpower paradigm involves the State and its institutions. While Indian democracy is often hailed highly for its ‘soft power’ appeal worldwide, it masks a bad case of dysfunctional politics, a reality that strikes the elite only in occasional spasms. Instead of delivery of results, electoral politics is all about retention of power and dispensing of patronage. Unlike the revitalised US democracy, India’s capacity for self-renewal seems much too weak for the country’s good.

Worse, the resolve to attain the grand goal India has set for itself is in sparse evidence. Internally, the Superpower Project is hollow. Take a look around. The fissures of petty politics block attempts to win elections on national issues. Nor can these become priorities of governance. Superpowers, on the other hand, have always upheld issues that are vital to them in a broad sense.

So why does this fancy persist? Says Shiv Vishwanathan, a sociologist, “There is a fantastic urge within the middle-class for upward mobility. For status. This is fuelled equally by the expatriate Indian cousins when they visit or hold ‘India’ days. It is a dangerous fantasy because it is taken as manifest destiny. Bear in mind that a lot can still go wrong in the India story. If the middle-class insulates itself in the superpower ivory tower, it will invite reactions.”

There are sniggers in the dark, scowls in the aisles. Read The White Tiger. Or watch Slumdog Millionaire. Though aimed at Western audiences, they are reminders of the mockery that comes the way of India’s middle-class consensus on Superpowerhood. And indeed, there is much that should make the country squirm. There is nothing ‘super’ in having to declare a quarter of the country’s districts tormented by Naxal violence. There are people out in the jungles who are taking up guns to overthrow the State, an entity they see as increasingly hostage to the mollycoddled middle-class and its fancies.

MATTER OF SELF BELIEF

So, can no good come of hallucination? It could depend on how the energies are channelled. In Meiji Japan, or Imperial Britain, the State took national ambition to new heights. “Some good does come out of the fantasy,” says Gurcharan Das, “It gives a sense of self-belief. But it is critical to direct this positive energy, for otherwise it can lead to a dangerous disconnect of the elite from the concerns of a transforming country.” India must wake up.
 
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韩国创造历史,印度拥有未来。 o(∩_∩)o
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There is such a thing as overreacting.
 
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Seems Indian members again talking shite in Chinese defence section, ah poor Chinese members, I empathise your attempt at shepherding the sheeple!
 
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India is becoming more confident of its place in the world, and showing off its money lets the world know India should be treated like a great power.



Russian: money money money money money money... o(╯□╰)o

China:ore ore ore ore ore ore ore ore...o(∩_∩)o

USA:animosity animosity animosity animosity animosity animosity..... \(≥▽≤)/
 
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Sigh....some people just can not stand a peaceful world.

In the brief periods when they themselves are not busy waging wars or enslaving entire continents, they start sowing seeds of dissension among others.
 
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韩国创造历史,印度拥有未来。 o(∩_∩)o
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There is such a thing as overreacting.

你明显不行啊
韩国创造历史, ww掌握一切, 印度计划未来。
 
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你明显不行啊
韩国创造历史, ww掌握一切, 印度计划未来。
you can plan ... just plan ... :)

India cant be contained ... :) the sooner you understand the better its for future of Chinese ...
 
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you can check the comparison... in 80s both were almost same ...and note one thing around 2000 chinese GDP were almost same as India's in 2007 ...
Country Subject Description Units Scale 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007
China Gross domestic product per capita, current prices Units US dollars 311.634 290.821 275.215 291.607 296.185 288.385 274.844 294.045 361.241 398.481 339.160 350.613 412.258 517.415 466.605 601.010 699.414 770.589 817.144 861.211 945.601 1038.034 1131.805 1269.832 1485.852 1702.847 1926.470 2136.407
China Gross domestic product, current prices Billions US dollars 307.599 291.031 279.767 300.378 309.089 305.259 295.477 321.391 401.072 449.104 387.772 406.090 483.047 613.225 559.226 727.950 856.006 952.649 1019.477 1083.283 1198.483 1324.812 1453.837 1640.966 1931.642 2224.811 2529.563 2819.249
India Gross domestic product per capita, current prices Units US dollars 265.984 280.901 284.738 301.127 295.775 300.225 323.437 349.496 375.296 365.871 387.237 336.689 331.938 317.719 354.112 394.101 408.947 437.043 431.556 452.121 464.267 467.321 477.806 547.672 623.179 713.677 769.457 824.333
India Gross domestic product, current prices Billions US dollars 175.549 189.679 196.113 211.994 212.736 220.665 242.901 268.064 294.139 292.971 316.663 281.052 282.729 275.780 314.098 356.859 377.662 411.476 414.078 442.287 462.643 474.097 493.335 575.330 665.867 775.410 849.905 925.426

Presumably, India should be catching up china after 1990 (actually, there was nothing to catch up for India in 1990, both countries started at the same place, so the idea that India started to reform 15 years later than china doesn't make any sense, don't know why so many people bought it)

Let me do you a favor

5316689250_75559d553b_b.jpg



By looking at this chart, do you realize that the gap of China and India in term of GDP number has been widened since then?
 
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