India to buy 60-63 Rafales jets off the shelf from France; MMRCA deal off:

[Vasily Zaytsev]

If HAL cannot make it cheaply with all the existing Experience Infrastructure and Manpower in place, are you nuts Reliance with "Zero" Experience in Precision Engineering forget about experience in Aviation Engineering, will be able to produce "CHEAPER AND BATTER" then HAL??

Same is true with all the Private Players.

Some are having experience of making some parts NOTHING MORE!!!

Nuts? ... Kindly check Yours?

Fact1. Nowhere did I mention Reliance.

Fact2. Dassault can be trusted with producing Rafale in India with whichever Partner they choose to. I have no trust in those lazy, careless fat asses at HAL.

Fact3. I have more trust in Tata's, Mahindras, L&Ts, Bharat Forges than HAL. Their track record speaks for themselves. Just because The Government needs to feed their white elephants we can not comprise with the security of our country.

Fact4. The Boeings, Airbuses and Dassaults of the world would trust a TATA or L&T more than HAL or MDL. There is something called professionalism which I don't think any of our White Elephants have ever heard of the word.

Enough Said. Good riddance MMRCA. Good riddance HAL.

 

[Dillinger]

I am sure for EMALSapproved by US i expect F35C bundled with that unless they offer EMALS standalone (unlikely). USA would never leave a single chance of Selling F35 as they need its sales asap to offset huge cost overlays.

The US has no need to "bundle" the sales of the EMALS with the F-35, as such they will end up selling the E-2D to us anyway if we opt for either the EMALS of steam powered catapults.

 

[Ind4Ever]

so 36+18 is a possibility.

You know the reliance angle and possible tweets by Nitin Gokhle (the guy who took DM MP interview in DD today some days back speculates a lot of things
see this

nitin gokhale @nitingokhale · Apr 10
If Dassault can be persuaded to shift its assembly line to India (not under HAL), it would meet the Make in India requirements too!

nitin gokhale @nitingokhale · Apr 10
Just a wild thought. Could it be that the entire Rafale assembly line relocates to India in coming years under the Make in India scheme?

nitin gokhale @nitingokhale · Apr 10
The next steps on more Rafales is a matter of detail: sources. Being described as mix of meeting IAF's requirement and that of Make in India

nitin gokhale @nitingokhale · Apr 10
Okay so I got it wrong on the numbers. 36 Rafale to be bought in ready to fly condition, announces PM. Price and further details awaited

Again BANG ON !!!
36+18 as per the new G2G deal . Extra orders depends up on what french are will to do .

But negotiations will begin from today ! French President , HAL , PMO , mod Dassault all will be present as per my source . .


Negotiations will be for manufacturing some equipment in India . As now we have given the french what they needed 54 rafale orders. Which will cherish their defence industry. Now talks will be for Rafale M too and For Nuclear Strike Force Am not sure whether we will use rafale or new MMRCA replacement . Which we speculate Su35S .

The US has no need to "bundle" the sales of the EMALS with the F-35, as such they will end up selling the E-2D to us anyway if we opt for either the EMALS of steam powered catapults.

But we are not going for Steam Catapult systems . but electro magnetic system . And I don't think we will go for complete F35C or Lightening 2 either . At most we might but F35 for our So called 40 K helicopter carrier like Japanese are planing for .

IN very much interested in weapon carrying capacity of Rafale M with 13 hard point upto 8/9 ton . Which is a good choice indeed . We can have a mix of fighter as we will have Catapult system to launch any kind of heavy fighters from the deck of Vishal . F35 will need pain in ye arse due to many other things too.

 

[magudi]

Again BANG ON !!!
36+18 as per the new G2G deal . Extra orders depends up on what french are will to do .

But negotiations will begin from today ! French President , HAL , PMO , mod Dassault all will be present as per my source . .


Negotiations will be for manufacturing some equipment in India . As now we have given the french what they needed 54 rafale orders. Which will cherish their defence industry. Now talks will be for Rafale M too and For Nuclear Strike Force Am not sure whether we will use rafale or new MMRCA replacement . Which we speculate Su35S .

su35s is out of question there won't be a new mmrca replacement

 

[Ind4Ever]

The US has no need to "bundle" the sales of the EMALS with the F-35, as such they will end up selling the E-2D to us anyway if we opt for either the EMALS of steam powered catapults.

But we are not going for Steam Catapult systems . but electro magnetic system . And I don't think we will go for complete F35C or Lightening 2 either . At most we might but F35 for our So called 40 K helicopter carrier like Japanese are planing for .

IN very much interested in weapon carrying capacity of Rafale M with 13 hard point upto 8/9 ton . Which is a good choice indeed . We can have a mix of fighter as we will have Catapult system to launch any kind of heavy fighters from the deck of Vishal . F35 will need pain in ye arse due to many other things too.

 

[Nine Inch Nails]

Whole lot of speculations.


I'm glad Modiji came to power.


Haters gonna hate and vandalize churches.

 

[Ind4Ever]

su35s is out of question there won't be a new mmrca replacement

What is your point then ? We won't have anymore MMMRCA othe than 36 rafale

 

[Vasily Zaytsev]

The DM Parrikar to IBN7:

राफेल वायुसेना की जरूरत, सवाल बेमानीः पर्रिकर - IBN Khabar

राफेल वायुसेना की जरूरत, सवाल बेमानीः पर्रिकर
सुमित अवस्थी | Apr 13, 2015 at 07:33pm | Updated Apr 13, 2015 at 09:33pm

नई दिल्ली। फ्रांस के लड़ाकू विमान राफेल की आलोचना कर रहे लोगों को आईबीएन7 पर देश के रक्षा मंत्री मनोहर पर्रिकर ने करारा जवाब दिया है। पर्रिकर ने आईबीएन7 से एक्सक्लूसिव बातचीत में साफ कहा कि ये विमान वायुसेना की जरूरत है। राफेल बेहतरीन क्षमता वाला विमान है और उसपर सवाल उठाना पूरी तरह से बेमानी है।



पर्रिकर ने राफेल को लेकर की जा रही आलोचनाओं का जवाब भी दिया और साफ कहा कि ये कहना गलत होगा कि राफेल विमान वायुसेना में इस वक्त मिग-21 विमानों का विकल्प है। पर्रिकर ने राफेल विमानों का विरोध कर रहे बीजेपी नेता सुब्रह्मण्यम स्वामी को समझाने की बात भी कही।



उन्होंने साफ कहा कि वो स्वामी से मिलेंगे और उन्हें समझाएंगे। गौरतलब है कि स्वामी ने इस सौदे के खिलाफ अदालत में जाने की धमकी दी थी। रक्षा मंत्री ने ये भी बताया कि मिग-21 की जगह देश में ही बन रहे हल्के विमान तेजस तैनात होंगे।



सुमित अवस्थी: 36 राफेल विमानों पर तो बात हो गई है लेकिन बाकी 90 विमानों के मुद्दे पर क्या बात हो रही है?



मनोहर पर्रिकर: मेक इन इंडिया पर दोनों सरकारों के साथ बात होने के बाद ही होगी। राफेल काफी महंगा विमान है। 126 विमानों के लिए 90 हजार करोड का सौदा होगा। सरकार से सरकार स्तर पर बात के बाद मेक इन इंडिया पर बात होगी। राफेल से मिग-21 रिप्लेस नहीं होगा, बाकी 90 विमानों पर हम चर्चा करेगें। तेजस से मिग-21 रिप्लेस होगा। 36 प्लेन खरीदने का निर्णय इन प्रिसिंपल हुआ है। दोनों देशों की टीमें बैठकर निर्णय लेगी कि कितने राफेल बनाने हैं। मिग 21 की जगह हल्का विमान तेजस लेगा।



सुमित अवस्थी: क्या ये सच है कि पिछले 10 सालों में दुनिया भर के रक्षा मंत्रालयों के मुकाबले हम पीछे छूट गए?



मनोहर पर्रिकर: मुझे किसी पर कीचढ़ फेंकने की आदत नहीं है, आरएफपी मॉडल से डील करना ही गलत है। पिछले दस सालों में किसी का किसी पर भरोसा नहीं रहा। एक रैंक, एक पेंशन का मुद्दा समाधान की ओर है। लेकिन कोर्ट के अंतरिम आदेश के कारण मुझे फैसला देखना होगा। अधिकतम 1 साल में हम एक रैंक, एक पेंशन को लागू कर सकेगें।



सुमित अवस्थी: राफेल सौदे को लेकर सुबह्यण्यम स्वामी कोर्ट जाने की बात कर रहे हैं?



मनोहर पर्रिकर: मैं सुबह्यण्यम स्वामी का सम्मान करता हूं। लेकिन मैं उन्हें एक दिन समझाने के लिए बुलाउंगा। उनका निर्णय इंस्टेट न्यूज पर आधारित हो सकता है।



सुमित अवस्थी: दिग्विजय सिंह के आरोपो पर क्या कहेंगे?



मनोहर पर्रिकर: हमारी डील क्लियर स्टेटमेंट पर है। हम आरएफपी से कम प्राइस पर बात करेगें। दोनों सरकारों के बीच सौदा क्या पहली बार हो रहा है।


Some Clarity.

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

Nuts? ... Kindly check Yours?

Fact1. Nowhere did I mention Reliance.

Fact2. Dassault can be trusted with producing Rafale in India with whichever Partner they choose to. I have no trust in those lazy, careless fat asses at HAL.

Fact3. I have more trust in Tata's, Mahindras, L&Ts, Bharat Forges than HAL. Their track record speaks for themselves. Just because The Government needs to feed their white elephants we can not comprise with the security of our country.

Fact4. The Boeings, Airbuses and Dassaults of the world would trust a TATA or L&T more than HAL or MDL. There is something called professionalism which I don't think any of our White Elephants have ever heard of the word.

Enough Said. Good riddance MMRCA. Good riddance HAL.

Dear "NUT" please dont jump the Gun!

Read MY POST AGAIN:

It clearly says:

Same is true with all the Private Players.

Some are having experience of making some parts NOTHING MORE!!!

 

[kaykay]

What is your point then ? We won't have anymore MMMRCA othe than 36 rafale

Why you think so? When DM clearly said that all further rafales will be procured through govt to govt route( bypassing dassault and thus no need of mmrca).

 

[magudi]

What is your point then ? We won't have anymore MMMRCA othe than 36 rafale

Dm clearly says the following :-

36 will be bought in fly away condition from France

Negotiations for another 90 to be made in India will go on, if they don't reach an agreement lca mk2 will take its place

 

[Dillinger]

Again BANG ON !!!
36+18 as per the new G2G deal . Extra orders depends up on what french are will to do .

But negotiations will begin from today ! French President , HAL , PMO , mod Dassault all will be present as per my source . .


Negotiations will be for manufacturing some equipment in India . As now we have given the french what they needed 54 rafale orders. Which will cherish their defence industry. Now talks will be for Rafale M too and For Nuclear Strike Force Am not sure whether we will use rafale or new MMRCA replacement . Which we speculate Su35S .



But we are not going for Steam Catapult systems . but electro magnetic system . And I don't think we will go for complete F35C or Lightening 2 either . At most we might but F35 for our So called 40 K helicopter carrier like Japanese are planing for .

IN very much interested in weapon carrying capacity of Rafale M with 13 hard point upto 8/9 ton . Which is a good choice indeed . We can have a mix of fighter as we will have Catapult system to launch any kind of heavy fighters from the deck of Vishal . F35 will need pain in ye arse due to many other things too.

The decision to opt for steam driven catapults or EMALS has not been taken yet, so the Indian Navy could end up with either and both of the systems would be a big step up for the Indian Navy.

We are not going to be operating 40,000 ton "helicopter carriers"; it is only garbled up information which has been spewed by our witless scribes. The Indian Navy intends to operate 4 LHDs for HADR and marine combat operations, as such the top figure for the displacement of said LHD is going to be no more than 27,000 tons. Most importantly, a large helicopter carrier (by dint of being large) cannot simply operate a compliment of VL F-35s, the top deck would have to be specifically built for that purpose for it to be able to handle such operations (at the moment the Juan Carlos would have a better time at operating F-35s than the Izumo).

As to whether the Indian Navy is interested in the marine Rafales, one cannot say either way; irregardless the future of its fixed wing carrier-borne force is now tied to the Mig-29K until a decision is taken to either opt for a completely different fixed wing combatant (best of luck with that given the IN's resources are even more strained than the IAF's) or we will opt for a carrier design incorporating a ski jump and catapults (for heavier AEW&C platforms).

 

[#hydra#]

We are not going to get more than 36 Rafi's,actually order for 36 is just a face saving action by govt of India.all aeging mig 21 will be replaced by tejas mk1 & mk2 together,a very wise movement.In future Jaguars will be replaced MKI used version of su34.AMCA will become our future medium category multirole fighter.

 

[Ind4Ever]

Why you think so? When DM clearly said that all further rafales will be procured through govt to govt route( bypassing dassault and thus no need of mmrca).

Bro right now there is now clarity . All are speculation. But if I may recall what DM as said " 36 rafale is for urgent requirement. Negotiations will take place to produce more aircraft needed to replace old migs (mig27s) . But it might be rafale or other aircraft. It don't have to to be Rafale alone.

This is what he said. MMRCA canceled as per his statement made today . But G2G negotiations are still on for

1) price of 36
2) For manufacturer of parts in India
3) for Future procurement if French are ready to offer a good deal .
4) if possible to shift the supply line to India as their choice of Private partner . As we need another 18 (follow on + 45 Rafale M for the navy)

So I speculate more rafale orders on transferring supply line to India . With other private players indeed . Which french was opting for with less ToT to the reliance rather than HAL.

If this is what is going on then it's a better idea than pushing them to a contract with HAL . As in said . These are all my speculation . Since there is no any clear idea of future course of action by PM. He is simply unpredictable . In a whole new level . Will you be live if I said This 36 deal details is actually kept as secret from many babus of PMO and MoD ? .

And look what happened with Nitin Ghokl 64 rafale predictions ? Actually he missed a que here. He was right when he said 3 squadrons and so he speculated 64 , 20 each . But we ended up with 18 each . As 36 is for 2 and 18 as follow on if needed . It makes it 3 .

So we need to wait and keep eating our brains for now -_-

 

[Vasily Zaytsev]

Dear "NUT" please dont jump the Gun!

Read MY POST AGAIN:

It clearly says:

Oh Plheeaseeee. Its a defence forum. And People here are expected to know what the TATAs, L&T, Godrej etc have done in defence aerospace sector. Kid get yourself educated first about TATA, L&T, Godrej, Bharat Forge, Mahindra, Kirloskars before You Open Your mouth for My Nuts.

Now Shoooo.