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India To Boost LCA Order; AF Questions Its Capabilities

Zarvan

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India plans to increase is orders for the Light Combat Aircraft.

NEW DELHI — The Indian government will increase orders for its homegrown Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), called Tejas, from 20 to 120, but Air Force officials question the plane's capabilities, and the scheduled arrival of a more advanced model remains murky.

However, Indian Air Force officials said the move to increase reliance on the Tejas, delayed by more than 15 years, would severely compromise India's combat worthiness because this would lead to total dependence on state owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL), which the officials said has a poor record of delivery and quality.

Besides, LCA-Mark1 will be able to meet only the low end of Air Force requirements, a senior Air Force official said.

A Ministry of Defence official, however, said the Air Force ordered additional LCAs with features more advanced than the LCA-Mark 1, including a self-protection jammer, an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar to be procured from Elta of Israel, and air-to-air refueling capability. This version of the aircraft would be labeled LCA-Mark 1A, he said.

But an Air Force official said the decision to boost the order for LCA-Mark 1s was forced on them by the government to support its policy of "Make in India" defense projects.

A decade ago, Air Force officials said that its combat needs would be met only with the LCA-Mark 2, which will be powered by a higher thrust GE 414 engine, compared to the GE-404 engine currently powering the LCA-1 and LCA-1A.

HAL not only has a poor record or delivering on time, but produces inferior products, the Air Force official said.

Retired Air Marshal Subhash Bhojwani said that while the AESA radar and air-to-air refueling capability would compensate for most of the LCA's operational deficiencies, "with regard to day-to-day line maintenance I understand Tejas is still an engineer's nightmare.

"I have yet to see any HAL aircraft where the canopy of one aircraft fits another without a lot of adjustments, the same for any other airframe component. Each aircraft seems to be ever so slightly different; this is a major shortcoming. US- and French-origin aircraft are designed from drawing board onwards to be easy to repair and parts are freely swappable. If HAL has made Tejas more maintenance-friendly than its predecessor products, then my stated opinion would need to undergo modification," Bhojwani said.

Analysts, however, said purchase of additional LCA-Mark 1As might be the best solution to meet immediate fighter aircraft requirements.

"With the IAF's fixed-wing fighter fleet witnessing an alarming decrease, the homegrown LCA-Mark 1A seems to be the quickest solution to arrest this decline. However, a more long-term solution needs to be found in terms of offensive capability," said Ankur Gupta, a defense analyst with Earnest and Young India.

Nitin Mehta, a New Delhi-based defense analyst, said, "After canceling the 2007 tender for the purchase of 126 medium multirole combat aircraft and purchasing 36 French Rafales instead, combining with an increase in orders for the LCA-Mark1A is the best decision to check the falling fleet strength of fighter aircraft."

Another Air Force official said that HAL cannot be relied on to deliver the additional LCA-Mark 1As in a timely fashion.

"It would have been much better to either procure fighter combat aircraft from overseas on a fast-track basis or set up another aerospace agency other than HAL to manufacture the increased numbers of LCA-Mark 1A," the official said.

Hal officials have said they do not respond to such criticism, and that they will meet the delivery schedule.

A HAL official said the Air Force has given an initial order of 20 LCA-Mark 1s and thereafter more than 100 LCA-Mark 1As will be ordered after final operational clearance is achieved, expected next year.

Over the next three years, the HAL official said, the company will increase production capability from the current level of four aircraft annually to seven in 2016-17 and eight in 2017-18. After 2017-18, HAL will boost its capacity to 16 each year.

"I can only presume that the Tejas [upgraded with better sensors and avionics] now meets the low-end needs of the IAF, although I think it will be largely utilized in its own airspace, thus freeing up more capable platforms to do the more challenging cross-border missions," Bhojwani said.

With increased orders for LCA-1A, the fate of LCA-Mark 2, still in development stage, is now uncertain, the Air Force official official said.

"To the best of my understanding, the LCA-Mark 2 is many, many years away. I don't think a single prototype has been built yet so the earlier projected timelines do not stand true," Gupta said. Initial operational certification and final operational clearance for LCA Mark-2 could stretch well into 2025, Gupta said.

The MoD official, however, said with the addition of an AESA radar, a jammer and air-to-air refueling capability, the LCA-Mark 1A should meet the operational needs of the Air Force, but declined to say when the LCA-Mark 2 will be completed.

Email: vraghuvanshi@defensenews.com

India To Boost LCA Order; AF Questions Its Capabilities
 
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mulla in short yet another paid article my owr media traders backed and financed by the foriegn maal lobby and dassult to increase the order of rafales :coffee:

PS ignore them and move on 8-)
 
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mulla in short yet another paid article my owr media traders backed and financed by the foriegn maal lobby and dassult to increase the order of rafales :coffee:

PS ignore them and move on 8-)
Your own IAF knows they are being forced to commit suicide by going for LCA TEJAS
 
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Your own IAF knows they are being forced to commit suicide by going for LCA TEJAS
ok mulla even if what you are saying is right rathewr you should be happy and keep quite as logick says when your enemy is making a mistake you should not stop him or talk about it with him but you are doing the opposite .... may i ask why ?

1. is that you deep down know LCA gonna me a big problem for PAF in future ?

2. are you changing your loyalty to pakistan for india like adnan sami ?

:azn: :sarcastic:
 
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Your own IAF knows they are being forced to commit suicide by going for LCA TEJAS

IAF is like the kid who wants to play with video games only while MOD is like the parent who wants the kid to play with Legos and learn something.

Now a compromised has been made to get the kid a video game version of the Legos in MK1A.

Problem solved.
 
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Does it matter? :lol: They remain the largest distributor of iaf jet parts in the world.. Works for us..

TC gen padbandraa
Obviously, it is, if you still dont able to understand the far reaching consequences of such talks/actions, even after with country like Pakistan. Then allah may help you.
 
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India has finally come to earth after the tender for 124 fighters whose costs jumped to $15-20 billion by some accounts. Pakistan prudently assembled/built cost-effective fighter JF-17 and did not match India's foolish grandeur plans. Now LCA Teja whether ready or not will be inducted in IAF.
 
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Retired Air Marshal Subhash Bhojwani said that while the AESA radar and air-to-air refueling capability would compensate for most of the LCA's operational deficiencies, "with regard to day-to-day line maintenance I understand Tejas is still an engineer's nightmare.

"I have yet to see any HAL aircraft where the canopy of one aircraft fits another without a lot of adjustments, the same for any other airframe component. Each aircraft seems to be ever so slightly different; this is a major shortcoming. US- and French-origin aircraft are designed from drawing board onwards to be easy to repair and parts are freely swappable. If HAL has made Tejas more maintenance-friendly than its predecessor products, then my stated opinion would need to undergo modification," Bhojwani said.

Brother @PARIKRAMA @Ind4Ever @dadeechi @MilSpec[/USER] The author have certainly made the point, LCA have a good capabilities, and there is no doubt on that, but 2 points which are raised.

1. HAL have poor record of making quality product and poor time management in deliveries.

Now looking at the earlier products of the HAL provided to the customer i.e IAF -- its the Mig-21, Jaguar, and Su-30MKI, Cheetak, Cheetal helicopter, Hack jet trainer. Dhruv,

Hal have also delayed the intermidiate jet trainer AJT Sitara too long - 16 years. I remember, it took just 2 years for the HAL for the first flight from the development timeline, and then they could not solve fuel pump problems or rather they are only interested in taking new projects, and left various unsolved business left overs.

There was also one news of boieng ending the contract with the HAL for the poor quality.

Some points like --- HAL CMD is also fairly sophisticated. Check out the facilities.

About Us | Tata HAL Technologies
http://www.tatahal.com/wp-content/uploa ... 5___V2.pdf
http://linkshowcase.com/portfolio/brochure/HAL.pdf

AL plans to take the production rate to 16 aircraft per year from 2017 onwards. The facility will be upgraded to a major manufacturing complex consisting of sheet metal shop, process shop and heat treatment shop. Additional hangars are also coming up for support and maintenance, with further augmentation in the pipeline to accommodate the Tejas trainers and naval variant.
All hangars are equipped with forced draft systems to maintain dust, humidity and temperature control. HAL has given the mandate to head the new facility to V Sridharan, who has worked extensively on Jaguar and Hawk programmes. “We have embedded the Tejas production with best lean practices in manufacturing. Maintaining highest quality standards have been the driving philosophy behind while setting up this unit,” HAL chairman R K Tyagi told Express from Delhi. Batting for the private industry, HAL says that a total of 9362 fabricated parts will be manufactured by its external supply chain. “This step is critical in propelling HAL as a lead integrator in the national aerospace eco system,” Tygai said.
A gen-next 5-axis CNC machine installed at the facility is capable of robotically undertaking the wing skin drilling, thereby reducing the turnaround time by 80 per cent. The manufacturing jigs have been calibrated with computer-aided laser tracker to 80 micron tolerance. The manufacturing shop has been equipped with appropriate CAD software for working with digital mockup features.


HAL has many such small JVs with private companies.
http://www.hal-india.com/Joint Venture Companies/M__29


Indian aero-engineering community now is quite good at structures with large number of structural engineers with lot of experience. We are good at avionics as well. Aerodynamics and Propulsion is lagging behind though. And of coarse manufacturing technology as a whole.

I have been a supporter of idea of having JV between HAL and private firms for manufacturing of a/c or helicopters. Dis-investing HAL or trashin HAL and going to private fully, both are stupid in my opinion.

EDIT: Old news Item i just found on google.

HAL eyes joint ventures with industries - The Times of India

Shows that HAL has been on this path already, albeit in smaller pieces. I was thinking HAL could also work as incubation center for aerospace specific tech start-ups. GOI can channel some funding through HAL.

2. LCA would be difficult to maintained.

ADA made the mistake, of not designing the LCA on the modular design. And thats true that all the prototypes and the SP series are different than each others, so why blaiming IAF for not taking LCA seriously, when they could not judge which one of the jet to consider for assessment.



So your take, and what do you think on these two things.


Thanks and regards.
 
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India has finally come to earth after the tender for 124 fighters whose costs jumped to $15-20 billion by some accounts. Pakistan prudently assembled/built cost-effective fighter JF-17 and did not match India's foolish grandeur plans. Now LCA Teja whether ready or not will be inducted in IAF.
ya right so you are really not worried about LCA a fighter that has lesser RCS value than any thing you have has already been tested in all weather day and night and all altiutudes +got DASH HMDS, Lightning3G3 LDP & R73-Python5-Derby-I Derby ER combo and is capable of taking off and landing with full load of wepons on a very short runway even in concitions as harsh as high altitude himalyan air bases like leh.... wonder what do you call that kind of obsession jealousy , paranoia or both :sarcastic:
 
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... wonder what do you call that kind of obsession jealousy , paranoia or both

Neither....watched the world fighter manufacturers executives dance in their suits to Bollywood tune for 5 years and now India chooses LCA Tejas.
 
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