India To Boost LCA Order; AF Questions Its Capabilities

[Jat Boy]

LCA is poor project and Indians need to take the ciricism of this from Pakistanis on the chin.

The PAK GUYS are 100% correct in their critical anlyisis of LCA.

I too think the IAF would rather have more mki or rafale... even MIG35 but modi says NO NO NO Tejas it will be

 

[AMCA]

Your own IAF knows they are being forced to commit suicide by going for LCA TEJAS

It was a tough call for the navy too when they decided to go indigenous in replacing their ageing fleet of Soviet and British Warships. They are reaping the benefits of their decisions now as the Indian shipyards(Both Public and Private) are ready to equip the navy with anything it wants.

 

[desimorty]

India has finally come to earth after the tender for 124 fighters whose costs jumped to $15-20 billion by some accounts. Pakistan prudently assembled/built cost-effective fighter JF-17 and did not match India's foolish grandeur plans. Now LCA Teja whether ready or not will be inducted in IAF.

Source: India To Boost LCA Order; AF Questions Its Capabilities

I think the LCA had been far more prepared to enter operation clearance than the JF-17 which is being pushed past critical analysis of the PAF. Think about it. PLAAF didn't want the FC-1, they opted to clearly for a J-10 which just costs more and gives more of less the same capability. Kudos to Pakistan but damn shame for the initial plan to procure ToT Gripen, F-16 or Rafale. Heck even the J-10. What the JF-17 is a project between corrupt politicians from both Pak and China whom swindled Pakistani money and never came under criticism. Cost overruns eventually led to testing and employing Chinese avionics even knowing the bar restriction when it comes to single vendors!
The Tejas, can keep running, its not expensive relative to other projects and performs better than the JF-17. This is largely thanks to American engine GE for the f-404 and eventually the F414. Both of which btw power the Gripen which is also on the PAF wish list. Not to mention the composite technology.
PAF should have foreseen the end of the J-7 when the PLAAF were reluctant to continue with its replacement. This is mainly due to the RD-33 engine series. Its lacks sufficient thrust and fails more so the Al-41 engine. Single engine jet plane as an engine failure. Sound familiar?
It may have been far more prudent for the PAF which has a large number of J-7s to upgrade the J-7 with modern avionics since they are going to serve for a very long time.
Need I also mention that the military is the pride of the nation is Pakistan. Theres a bigger propaganda agenda in Pakistan, than there is in India. BTW how many people, papers, articles in Pakistan published for Pakistan criticize the JF-17 or Al-Khalid?
This in comparison to a turbulant transparent project like LCA or Arjun.

LCA is poor project and Indians need to take the ciricism of this from Pakistanis on the chin.

The PAK GUYS are 100% correct in their critical anlyisis of LCA.

I too think the IAF would rather have more mki or rafale... even MIG35 but modi says NO NO NO Tejas it will be

Source: India To Boost LCA Order; AF Questions Its Capabilities

You sound stupid. Are you stupid?

 

[Kaniska]

Your own IAF knows they are being forced to commit suicide by going for LCA TEJAS

It is not a suicide..It is not like, if LCA is inducted it will be a frontline fighter plane, so it is better to induct and test it on the ground rather than keep on experienting on the labortary....Good Job IAF..

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

IAF wants LCA Teja to be like Rafale in Mark I or even in Mark II. Pakistan inducted JF-17 when it could not even fire missiles. We continued to improve and upgraded the older JF-17 with new technologies. You cannot expect a product to have all the bells and whistles in the first version. I wish I could also make best Cheese cake in the first try but realistically it is not possible.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Your own IAF knows they are being forced to commit suicide by going for LCA TEJAS

But keeping MIG corpses in the frontline is totally not suicide? These guys are going to get - Super MKIs, Rafales, FGFAs in the future, what more do they want? Literally not the time to talk about this - The user, developer, manufacturers(Both HAL and private) need to get this going.

For the love of god, the navy partially founded the LCA Navy program and LCA's production line, and IAF cant support the lowest tier in their inventory? Right when it's in production?

And someone cant explain to why HAL hasnt given SP2 yet.

 

[sathya]

But keeping MIG corpses in the frontline is totally not suicide? These guys are going to get - Super MKIs, Rafales, FGFAs in the future, what more do they want? Literally not the time to talk about this - The user, developer, manufacturers(Both HAL and private) need to get this going.

For the love of god, the navy partially founded the LCA Navy program and LCA's production line, and IAF cant support the lowest tier in their inventory? Right when it's in production?

And someone cant explain to why HAL hasnt given SP2 yet.

According to @Stephen Cohen , goal post had been shifted , they are on the way to make mk1p as the standard.

 

[Beast]

INdian government is right to shove the plane down the IAF throat even the plane is half capable of JF-17. India in its infant stage of aviation progress will definitely make amateur mistake and produce not so good plane but this plane is still 50% better than Mig-21 Bison and a new airframe.

Every newcomer needs a kick start. If one countries can't make a F-22 standard fighter jet that means you shouldn't make a combat jet? Its not logic,right?

Maybe India next version Tejas 1A will reach JF-17 level? That means India is progressing....

 

[desimorty]

IAF wants LCA Teja to be like Rafale in Mark I or even in Mark II. Pakistan inducted JF-17 when it could not even fire missiles. We continued to improve and upgraded the older JF-17 with new technologies. You cannot expect a product to have all the bells and whistles in the first version. I wish I could also make best Cheese cake in the first try but realistically it is not possible.

Source: India To Boost LCA Order; AF Questions Its Capabilities | Page 3

I don't think it'll ever be what the Rafale is. The Rafale has twice the engines as Tejas. Electronic warfare and generation wise, yes they are very similar. Build wise yes, although not even close to the quality of rafale. However Tejas doesn't have that price and thats the reason why the IAF can not ignore it.
AFAIK JF-17 is concerned, it was political decision, do you think the PAF complained? of course but did they learn anything from it? IDK, the PAF is mum as the jf-1

 

[Water Car Engineer]

According to @Stephen Cohen , goal post had been shifted , they are on the way to make mk1p as the standard.

Doubt it, no way they will make the decision right in the middle of it's production.

 

[GURU DUTT]

thats the problem. your trying to run before you can walk. pac is upgrading the jet incrementally whilst hal is going all out. the blk3 will have a targeting pod and either a selex or a Chinese aesa radar.

there is a big "will have" if you know waht i mean

 

[My-Analogous]

Brother @PARIKRAMA @Ind4Ever @dadeechi @MilSpec[/USER] The author have certainly made the point, LCA have a good capabilities, and there is no doubt on that, but 2 points which are raised.

1. HAL have poor record of making quality product and poor time management in deliveries.

Now looking at the earlier products of the HAL provided to the customer i.e IAF -- its the Mig-21, Jaguar, and Su-30MKI, Cheetak, Cheetal helicopter, Hack jet trainer. Dhruv,

Hal have also delayed the intermidiate jet trainer AJT Sitara too long - 16 years. I remember, it took just 2 years for the HAL for the first flight from the development timeline, and then they could not solve fuel pump problems or rather they are only interested in taking new projects, and left various unsolved business left overs.

There was also one news of boieng ending the contract with the HAL for the poor quality.

Some points like --- HAL CMD is also fairly sophisticated. Check out the facilities.

About Us | Tata HAL Technologies
http://www.tatahal.com/wp-content/uploa ... 5___V2.pdf
http://linkshowcase.com/portfolio/brochure/HAL.pdf




HAL has many such small JVs with private companies.
http://www.hal-india.com/Joint Venture Companies/M__29


Indian aero-engineering community now is quite good at structures with large number of structural engineers with lot of experience. We are good at avionics as well. Aerodynamics and Propulsion is lagging behind though. And of coarse manufacturing technology as a whole.

I have been a supporter of idea of having JV between HAL and private firms for manufacturing of a/c or helicopters. Dis-investing HAL or trashin HAL and going to private fully, both are stupid in my opinion.

EDIT: Old news Item i just found on google.

HAL eyes joint ventures with industries - The Times of India

Shows that HAL has been on this path already, albeit in smaller pieces. I was thinking HAL could also work as incubation center for aerospace specific tech start-ups. GOI can channel some funding through HAL.

2. LCA would be difficult to maintained.

ADA made the mistake, of not designing the LCA on the modular design. And thats true that all the prototypes and the SP series are different than each others, so why blaiming IAF for not taking LCA seriously, when they could not judge which one of the jet to consider for assessment.



So your take, and what do you think on these two things.

Thanks and regards.

Thank you for your lecture but world is now result oriented and in case of LCA, whatever HAL was or is, Its fail to delivery it till date and LCA is still not in full production. END OF STORY

 

[GURU DUTT]

Thank you for your lecture but world is now result oriented and in case of LCA, whatever HAL was or is, Its fail to delivery it till date and LCA is still not in full production. END OF STORY

you should be happy about it not worried as you and many like you seem to be when making fun of LCA... strange naa

 

[My-Analogous]

you should be happy about it not worried as you and many like you seem to be when making fun of LCA... strange naa

Its reality Sir and you should face it and correct it. I never make fun of LCA and always say it will help India to learn a lot, but at the same time you guys have to understand their is a difference between leaning and wasting of time and what HAL is currently doing is wasting of time. If i am a director of HAL i definitely stop all these shitty project and introduce a new project of 6 Gen and divert all my resources of that and in next 30 years if we achieve that target then we are 10 to 15 years behind the world and it will be a big success for the country . Addition to that i will make another team to propose us 6.5 or 7 gen concept in next 5 to 7 years and after that i give dedicated team to achieve the target in next 25 years. That's how thinks work

 

[GURU DUTT]

Its reality Sir and you should face it and correct it. I never make fun of LCA and always say it will help India to learn a lot, but at the same time you guys have to understand their is a difference between leaning and wasting of time and what HAL is currently doing is wasting of time. If i am a director of HAL i definitely stop all these shitty project and introduce a new project of 6 Gen and divert all my resources of that and in next 30 years if we achieve that target then we are 10 to 15 years behind the world and it will be a big success for the country . Addition to that i will make another team to propose us 6.5 or 7 gen concept in next 5 to 7 years and after that i give dedicated team to achieve the target in next 25 years. That's how thinks work

tell me sir are you director of HAL ?

tell me sir is HAL bieng funded & run by pakistanies like you ?

tell me sir what plane you havedesigned inhouse and made till yet ?

i know things dont work like what pakistanies want to beleve other wise pakistan would have been the sole superpower of the world

but the point is we will not cancel LCA project and it should be last of your worries you should worry about Mig29s , M2Ks , jags and MKIs and bisons of IAF if you know what i mean ... cheers mate