India talks about infrastructure, China builds it...

[Han Patriot]

Those nations are probably going to go the Sri Lanka way, one of them won't probably mind at all to become a dominion of China. Economic exploitation of Africa by China has become quite famous soon Pakistan will join the list.

It is not about exporting excess capacity or titling the BoT in your favour. OBOR and CPEC has always been about the Chinese looking to park their excess capital. Interests rates around the western economies are very close to zero, you own People's Bank of China is offering a measly rate of return as your Government is trying to boost the firms consumption. What were you to do with the excess capital lying around. What better way than to invest in Pakistan and other such economies where you are assured a certain rate of return, which is more that what the west or your own country can give. So you see, it's all in the money.

And it will be quite a while before you can even start dreaming of surpassing USD as the preferred hard currency.

Good you understand that this plan is not just about exporting excess capacity. But I have to disagree on you about parking excess capital and getting interests, if they want a comfortable ROI, they won't take your so called 'risky' investments, there is strategic intention too.

Nobody is asking to surpass USD$, as long as the main currnecy along the belt is Yuan, that's already adequate, China still hold dollars $ btw. It's just to create some economic space for China where we can dictate the terms.

 

[OnlyTheTruth]

India has a different system than China..we cant follow the Chinese mode of operandi..you should understand that basic difference! And no doubt, India is doing quite well despite too many legal and social hurdles in getting the clearances for mega projects!

GLOBAL INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT INDEX 2016

View attachment 411013

Indeed, there is no question of following the Chinese model, that was taken care of by Nehru when he led a newly independent India to copy the Soviet model.
However, we can still be our own engine of growth. Interest rate regime in India is much more favourable than the West and China, leading to increased inflows of FDI. Corporate governance has to be made transparent and accountable, fiscal deficit has to be managed below 3pc in the next 2 years. And, we have to deal with corruption at all levels.
Above all, India has to reap the reward of her demographic dividend, skill enabling her young population for hi-tech jobs as well. We can no longer be the 'jeans economy', let Bangladesh take that crown.

Good you understand that this plan is not just about exporting excess capacity. But I have to disagree on you about parking excess capital and getting interests, if they want a comfortable ROI, they won't take your so called 'risky' investments, there is strategic intention too.

Nobody is asking to surpass USD$, as long as the main currnecy along the belt is Yuan, that's already adequate, China still hold dollars $ btw. It's just to create some economic space for China where we can dictate the terms.

That's why i said OBOR has both strategic and economic implications. The reason countries like Sri Lanka and Pakistan take your investments is because they are in dire need of it and no other country would think of investing there, that makes the investments 'risky'. Of course, Beijing has got the risk covered by its military might.

Secondly, Chinese Remninbi can never become hard currency unless your government stops manipulating the stock markets, that uncertainty has to stop. Also what needs to stop is the deliberate depreciation of exchange rates to boost exports which leads to deflation.

No country will accept the yuan as hard currency till China gets its house in order.

 

[aakash_2410]

https://data.oecd.org/transport/infrastructure-investment.htm

http://www.thehindu.com/business/bu...-gets-the-much-needed-push/article8297228.ece

India has only recently started to spend big in infrastructure. For the last fiscal year 2016-2017, India spent $34 billion and around $19 billion the year before. Same as what China spent in early 2000s. India's population is also, about 15 years younger than China's and economy is where China's was 15-20 years ago.

Chinese want to compare today's China with today's India but, are hesitant to compare today's China with today's Japan or South Korea.

 

[Han Patriot]

That's why i said OBOR has both strategic and economic implications. The reason countries like Sri Lanka and Pakistan take your investments is because they are in dire need of it and no other country would think of investing there, that makes the investments 'risky'. Of course, Beijing has got the risk covered by its military might.

Secondly, Chinese Remninbi can never become hard currency unless your government stops manipulating the stock markets, that uncertainty has to stop. Also what needs to stop is the deliberate depreciation of exchange rates to boost exports which leads to deflation.

No country will accept the yuan as hard currency till China gets its house in order.

Stock market has nothing to do with trade currency. The stock market can crash in China but people can still trade in Yuan in the belt region. It only becomes vulnerable when you are talking it's usage in a US$ denominated system. Firstly, China did not depreciate yuan, on the contrary it is trying to maintain a stable exchange rate, the reason it is depreciating shows that it is an open currency to a certain extent. China is having a 2% inflation, not deflation.

Countries only need to accept Yuan in the OBOR region, it is already happening with Russia, Pakistan and some CAR countries. Using yuan does not mean abandoning US$, they can use yuan for Chinese based trades.

 

[OnlyTheTruth]

Stock market has nothing to do with trade currency. The stock market can crash in China but people can still trade in Yuan in the belt region. It only becomes vulnerable when you are talking it's usage in a US$ denominated system. Firstly, China did not depreciate yuan, on the contrary it is trying to maintain a stable exchange rate, the reason it is depreciating shows that it is an open currency to a certain extent. China is having a 2% inflation, not deflation.

Countries only need to accept Yuan in the OBOR region, it is already happening with Russia, Pakistan and some CAR countries. Using yuan does not mean abandoning US$, they can use yuan for Chinese based trades.

I don't know why are we even arguing on this futile point. Yuan can never be the hard currency till managed exchange rate regime is there. I have not even raised the point of Capital Account Convertibility yet. Chinese debts are mounting, debt to gdp is i think 250pc,and the yuan is totally dependant on the dollar. Currency markets are tightly regulated. What beats me is why would the chinese want yuan as global currency, considering the pressure that comes with the tag.

Anyway, let me tell you that though Remninbi features in the IMF's basket of SDR, it is still nowhere close to USD, GBP, euro, yen, Australian and Canadian dollar.. That speaks a lot in itself, doesn't it.

 

[tw00tw00]

Let me share with you a new documentary on China's railways. It's fascinating to watch the amount of dedication and hard work that go into building the system. Look at the technology, the scale, and the cleanliness. When will India have something comparable?

China has introduced THREE new bullet train models this month: CR400AF, CR400BF, and CRH2E. CR400AF and CR400BF are capable of operational speed of 400km per hour. CRH2E, a sleeper train, will operate at 250km per hour.

CR400AF:

CR400BF:

CRH2E:

Look at the cleanliness of the interior... Each bunk is equipped with a privacy screen, a reading light, power socket, storage cupboards, and other amenities. The train also comes with free wifi.

 

[Han Patriot]

I don't know why are we even arguing on this futile point. Yuan can never be the hard currency till managed exchange rate regime is there. I have not even raised the point of Capital Account Convertibility yet. Chinese debts are mounting, debt to gdp is i think 250pc,and the yuan is totally dependant on the dollar. Currency markets are tightly regulated. What beats me is why would the chinese want yuan as global currency, considering the pressure that comes with the tag.

Anyway, let me tell you that though Remninbi features in the IMF's basket of SDR, it is still nowhere close to USD, GBP, euro, yen, Australian and Canadian dollar.. That speaks a lot in itself, doesn't it.

NOBODY, I repeat nobody is asking Yuan to be a hard currency, I am saying yuan will be used for the OBOR related trade with China and that alone is more than enough. With our without a managed exchange rate regime, yuan is already the top 10 used currency on earth.

OO god, do I need to start talking about domestic debt denominated in Yuan? And who says it is 250%, it is a guesstimate by Western media. Can you tell me how totally dependent yuan is on dollars? Why wouldn't we want our currency to be a global currency where we can print like the US$. Nobody is asking Yuan to be the next dollar now, I am just asking it to be the main currency for OBOR initiative. For Yuan to be as dominant as dollars will take another 20 years minimum.

 

[Kabira]

China Talks about Mars .. India ACTUALLY Reached There !

That was nothing special. I remember even liberal westerners asking Indians why don't you first provide toilets to people instead of wasting money by sending American origin small rocket in to space?

 

[OnlyTheTruth]

NOBODY, I repeat nobody is asking Yuan to be a hard currency, I am saying yuan will be used for the OBOR related trade with China and that alone is more than enough. With our without a managed exchange rate regime, yuan is already the top 10 used currency on earth.

OO god, do I need to start talking about domestic debt denominated in Yuan? And who says it is 250%, it is a guesstimate by Western media. Can you tell me how totally dependent yuan is on dollars? Why wouldn't we want our currency to be a global currency where we can print like the US$. Nobody is asking Yuan to be the next dollar now, I am just asking it to be the main currency for OBOR initiative. For Yuan to be as dominant as dollars will take another 20 years minimum.

How are you going to convince the importers of your goods to pay you back in yuan until it is made a global and hard currency and that importing nation has sufficient stash of yuan in its forex reserves.

 

[ashok321]

India has no class against China.
And this is a universal statement, not mine.

Even in India:
Top 10 most influential brands in the country, a new study by global research firm Ipsos says the following:

1) Google
2) Microsoft
3) Facebook

The least said the better.

Shame on Modiyans, Bhakts, Saffronists and Bajaran Dal to misguide their own Indians to boycott Chinese products which they really cant.

 

[Han Patriot]

How are you going to convince the importers of your goods to pay you back in yuan until it is made a global and hard currency and that importing nation has sufficient stash of yuan in its forex reserves.

OBOR related projects and loans are all denominated in yuan, they use these yuan to buy Chinese equipment and services. For them to pay back these loans, they need to sell their goods and services in yuan to China, this is where our companies come in, they don't have to pay it back in a hurry, it can be 10-20 years, but once they are locked into this system, we have strategic leverage. We can create an alternate market where yuan is the primary currency when trading with China. The reason you need dollars$ is to access goods and services China cannot offer, but with the OBOR initiative, China can practically build and produce everything needed.

Let's use India as an example, let's say India is building Chabahar port, India cannot do everything in Rupees because India do not produce port machinery and other logistical equipment. They need to pay dollars$ to access this.

 

[OnlyTheTruth]

OBOR related projects and loans are all denominated in yuan, they use these yuan to buy Chinese equipment and services. For them to pay back these loans, they need to sell their goods and services in yuan to China, this is where our companies come in, they don't have to pay it back in a hurry, it can be 10-20 years, but once they are locked into this system, we have strategic leverage. We can create an alternate market where yuan is the primary currency when trading with China. The reason you need dollars$ is to access goods and services China cannot offer, but with the OBOR initiative, China can practically build and produce everything needed.

Let's use India as an example, let's say India is building Chabahar port, India cannot do everything in Rupees because India do not produce port machinery and other logistical equipment. They need to pay dollars$ to access this.

That is exactly what i wanted to hear. Let us suppose i own an Indian company and want to export to Iran, Iran would obviously want to pay me in its own denomination but i would ask them to pay me in dollars unless we have some currency swapping agreement with Iran.

But the countries in OBOR would have no such option, China will demand that they accept payment in yuan. In addition, the loans would also be paid in Chinese denomination. Thus in the long run their exports will suffer and China will establish complete control over their economy.

The OBOR countries will be forced to sell their raw materials to Chinese companies and Chinese finished products will have a monopaly in their market. In short, end of free market. Because no other country will accept payment in yuan.

India raised these objections when she called the entire exercise unsustainable. Indian model is based on equitable partnership and transparency leading to sustainable growth for all stakeholders.

 

[Han Patriot]

That is exactly what i wanted to hear. Let us suppose i own an Indian company and want to export to Iran, Iran would obviously want to pay me in its own denomination but i would ask them to pay me in dollars unless we have some currency swapping agreement with Iran.

But the countries in OBOR would have no such option, China will demand that they accept payment in yuan. In addition, the loans would also be paid in Chinese denomination. Thus in the long run their exports will suffer and China will establish complete control over their economy.

The OBOR countries will be forced to sell their raw materials to Chinese companies and Chinese finished products will have a monopaly in their market. In short, end of free market. Because no other country will accept payment in yuan.

India raised these objections when she called the entire exercise unsustainable. Indian model is based on equitable partnership and transparency leading to sustainable growth for all stakeholders.

Why would the exports suffer? China is not stopping them from selling other goods and services to other countries in dollars. Goods and services sold to China can be in Yuan, reducing financial cost. You also fail to understand the impact of Chinese companies. Example, Huawei wants to sell phones to Tajikistan from Uzbekistan, both can be done in Yuan. As long the portion of trade done with China is in yuan, that's good enough. And yes natural resources can be sold to China to earn yuan to pay back China. You need to understand that money is a medium of exchange for goods and services, doesn't matter it's dollars or yuan, both function the same, the ultimate aim is to transfer goods and services between two countries. The only difference is China is printing this means of echange.

 

[aswin]

china is ahead, we shld catch up. slow and steady

 

[indianfighter1999]

don't know why fellow Indian posters try to reason with imposter Chinese posters here, most of these folks are sitting in Lahore or Islamabad guys