India should accept defeat before Kashmiris’ struggle, says Nawaz

[Hellfire]

Sorry to interrupt this debate but please for a few seconds view the image below, think for a while and then continue...

This is Insha Malik a 14 year old girl who belongs to Srinagar and was part of the Protest...If this was your daughter or sister what would you do?

http://www.dawn.com/news/1272683/di...ur-eyes-are-crucial-to-envisioning-our-future

Irrelevant. There is no innocent on streets in a protest being held in curfew.

 

[Joe Shearer]

To be what we are - Indians.

We have protested the formation of Pakistan and rejected the idea of two nations - the so called two nation theory; declaring ourselves a secular nation howsoever imperfect, we have worked to deny them a raison d'etre to exist for almost seven decades now.

They still look to justify their existence, we don't need to justify why we, inspite of all our diversities and differences, exist as a nation. We forged a democracy, howsoever faulty it maybe, made a constitution which is the most exhaustive in the world and have given rights to the citizen and imposed duties of them. Our locus standii ramins democracy and the constitution.

That is the most basic and important of the reason.

Rest all is hogwash. Both @Joe Shearer and I have said that the political settlement is must, the problem of J&K is uniquely a political one as it is being festered by the politicians. We don't need CAPFs acting like an elite commando force in J&K to deal with stone pelters, we need a force which can take care of a law and order problem with the means sufficient to deal with a law and order problem.

Article 1.1 is non-negotiable. Pakistan has no locus standii in Kashmir. If it challenges the Accession of the state, then its own locus standii as a nation should be questioned and steps be taken by India to ensure that all territories that make Pakistan are freed, as Pakistan derives legitimacy through the same instrument it questions in Kashmir.

But Article 370 is there too - which makes it incumbent upon the State government to work .. absolving GoI of all local level responsibilities. What is infuriating - the ignorance of people of India here, when they scream for abolition of Article 370 citing right to reside (it does not stop me from residing in J&K) when it only stops one from buying land in the state as is existent in Uttarakhand, Sikkim, North-East, Himachal Pradesh.

Yes it allows them a constitution, that is where the GoI is, at times, wrong, it could have prevented some legislations like the law passed by State that bars a Kashmiri woman from marrying outside the state and in the event of which, she loosed her right of being a resident of Kashmir.

This law itself is against the tenets of Indian Constitution of Right to Life, who stops GoI from acting on these stupidities?

@hellfire

As a matter of fact, even the favourite criticism of Article 370, that it prevents people not permanent residents of Kashmir, and even those among them who are female and have married outside the permanent residents of Kashmir from buying land in Kashmir, is not correct.

Article 370 stipulates no such thing.

That is contained in the Ranbir Code, and nothing else. It was recently amended by the J&K Legislature, to the effect that if a woman eligible to hold land married an outsider, she became ineligible.

The most ironic part of this is that the law was brought in to protect Pandits from the outrageous offers of PMs flooding in.

Sorry to interrupt this debate but please for a few seconds view the image below, think for a while and then continue...

This is Insha Malik a 14 year old girl who belongs to Srinagar and was part of the Protest...If this was your daughter or sister what would you do?

http://www.dawn.com/news/1272683/di...ur-eyes-are-crucial-to-envisioning-our-future

I would have been a responsible parent. I would have ensured that she did not go out into a curfewed street.

 

[hussain0216]

from ur flags..u dont live in pakistan so i dont know how u claim 2 speak 4 pakistanis. ur racist rants against hindus is simply stupid. kashmir is a political issue regarding the rights of people who want liberation. it is stupid people like u who make it out 2 be terrorist muslims wanting 2 convert or kill kuffars since they are not muslim.

Partition was a muslim issue, kashmir is a left over issue of Partition

If it weren't a muslim issue and just political there wouldn't have been partition

We had no will or desire to live with hindus so we created Pakistan, the Kashmiris are still fighting for their right to do tge same

If your blind or stupid thats your problem

 

[hassamun]

I saw, what's next you want me to cry?

Irrelevant. There is no innocent on streets in a protest being held in curfew.

Heartless statements by both of you...At least acknowledge the fact that the response by Indian Forces is harsh...

 

[Finer]

Now we go in circles.
The terrorists took away Hindu pandits EVERYTHING.

BUT

You are ok with that so I am ok with what we are doing now to the Kashmiri terrorists. Isn't that fair?

I am not okay with anything, but it is your motivation to resort to genocide. As i said earlier, it is not solution to anything. But will you listen? No. You are gonna do what you will do and then you will complain why this happens to you.

Your soldiers have killed more than million native Kashmiris. That, in my opinion, will not have happy ending. But have you learned from the history? No.

You don't care about Hindu pandits. Quite frankly, you are using that to serve to political interest. Those who did to Hindu pandits long time ago are no where to be found whereas your so-called 'morality' eludes you big time because the oppression is happening in front of your eyes never mind appointing one genocider leader which goes against the fundamental interest of the mankind.

Hey, you are stuck in the past, not me. Your obsession with past will take away your present. Don't say i didn't warn you earlier. Everything has its price, and the future is not set on stone yet, at least not yet.

 

[Hellfire]

Heartless statements by both of you...At least acknowledge the fact that the response by Indian Forces is harsh...

Indeed heartless. But the fact remains: The curfew was being administered under provisions of Public Safety Act of 1978 (certain provisions of which were deleted by J&K Act XII of 1988) as ratified by the J&K State Legislature as legalised by the Constitution of J&K as legalised under Constitution of India under Article 370 as enacted as part of the terms of accession as incorporated in Instrument of Accession signed by Maharaja of J&K as the legal regent and ruler of the erstwhile princely state of J&K.

It is to do with the legal validity of Instrument of Accession as legal under Indian Independence Act of 1947 which is also the legal basis of Pakistan.

In short, the State indeed is legally a territory of India as per the said statuette pending a referendum (which never occurred and was only an Indian desire and a non-binding at best save for obligations of a state in morality and as a state itself) and the conditions of the appointment of a plebiscite administrator was something that as per UN resolution, was to be discussed by only UN and India.

However, I digress.

Coming back, as @Joe Shearer so eloquently put it, I would be a responsible parent and not permit my children on street in curfew.

Reminds me of a story I posted of an officers dilemma in a convoy ambush. He could kill the two terrorists when his vehicle was pinned in ambush but the risk of killing the children and women in the courtyard from where the militants ambushed the vehicle, was too high inspite of the said officer being a classified marksman, and so he did not and the militants were able to make a getaway.

I am all too familiar with these tactics of putting children in harm's way. An old tactic. But holds no water in situations wherein the law is being broken.

A collateral damage to a convoluted drama being played out.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

1. The Government of Pakistan should undertake to use its best endeavours:

(a) To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and
Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes
of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of
material aid to those fighting in the State;

What do you think it means?

Like I said, now you will twist it and give some crappy explanation and we will round and round and round until one of us is tired or real life demands our attention somewhere else.

Anyway, bring on the crap..

read it again. and to prevent any intrusion into the State of SUCH ELEMENTS . They are not talking about pakistan forces . Read the indian responsibility section as well wherw they explicitly mention 'indian forces' to underatand whats being said.

 

[Hellfire]

I am not okay with anything, but it is your motivation to resort to genocide. As i said earlier, it is not solution to anything. But will you listen? No. You are gonna do what you will do and then you will complain why this happens to you.

Your soldiers have killed more than million native Kashmiris. That, in my opinion, will not have happy ending. But have you learned from the history? No.

You don't care about Hindu pandits. Quite frankly, you are using that to serve to political interest. Those who did to Hindu pandits long time ago are no where to be found whereas your so-called 'morality' eludes you big time because the oppression is happening in front of your eyes never mind appointing one genocider leader which goes against the fundamental interest of the mankind.

Hey, you are stuck in the past, not me. Your obsession with past will take away your present. Don't say i didn't warn you earlier. Everything has its price, and the future is not set on stone yet, at least not yet.

1. All factually incorrect statements by you.

2. Define genocide - and then explain its usage with respect to J&K

3. Where is the reference of a million?

4. To use Pandits, would have been to wipe out Muslims in Kashmir as a pretext. Did it occur? No. Why? Because unlike what people like you may want to profess, India is not a banana republic (although some of my countrymen's acts certainly make us feel as such).

Hilariously funny posts. Your initial posts as a member were good. Now this??

 

[Finer]

1. All factually incorrect statements by you.

2. Define genocide - and then explain its usage with respect to J&K

3. Where is the reference of a million?

4. To use Pandits, would have been to wipe out Muslims in Kashmir as a pretext. Did it occur? No. Why? Because unlike what people like you may want to profess, India is not a banana republic (although some of my countrymen's acts certainly make us feel as such).

Hilariously funny posts. Your initial posts as a member were good. Now this??

Invading their homes and oppressing their rights, raping their women and massacring their people more than 1 million people? I can understand the word, genocide, can be very confusion for you, otherwise, Modi would have been punished to death by now instead of rewarded with the leadership.

I don't give damn about India, but stop using pandits as your political score. I don't think they, may they rest in peace, will be pleased with what you guys made the mockery of their deaths and seeking comfort in what Indian army is doing to native million Kashmiris as inhumane tribute to pandits.

Funny posts? My posts were good and still are because they are based on the factual points. That's more than you get from Indian media, Indian PM Modi and hindu political ideologies.

 

[Hellfire]

Invading their homes and oppressing their rights, raping their women and massacring their people more than 1 million people? I can understand the word, genocide, can be very confusion for you, otherwise, Modi would have been punished to death by now instead of rewarded with the leadership

I don't give damn about India, but stop using pandits as your political score. I don't think they, may they rest in peace, will be pleased with what you guys made the mockery of their deaths and seeking comfort in what Indian army is doing to native million Kashmiris as inhumane tribute to pandits.

Funny posts? My posts were good and still are because they are based on the factual posts. That's more than you get from Indian media, Indian PM Modi and hindu political ideologies.

WOW!!!

COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT IS SINCERELY REGRETTED IF FELT

"....wake me up, when bullshit ends"

Inspired from the album 'The American Idiot', Track 7 'Wake Me Up When September Ends' by Green Day

 

[Politico]

Partition was a muslim issue, kashmir is a left over issue of Partition

If it weren't a muslim issue and just political there wouldn't have been partition

We had no will or desire to live with hindus so we created Pakistan, the Kashmiris are still fighting for their right to do tge same

If your blind or stupid thats your problem

only blind or stupid person here is u with ur retarded posts. u did nothing so dont take credit for the work of founding fathers of pakistan. and u sitting cosy in uk and passing comments about pakistan. u r fighting 4 nothing except when u stroke the keys on ur computer

 

[Scharfschütze]

India should accept defeat before Kashmiris’ struggle, says Nawaz
By APP
Published: July 20, 2016
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Indian police clash with Kashmiri protestors in Srinagar on July 11, 2016. PHOTO: AFP

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif Wednesday said that India has two choices on Kashmir, either keep on with its aggression that has left over 45 people dead over the past 11 days or to give people of the in the disputed Himalayan valley their due rights which it had promised in the UN.

In a message In a message on Black Day to protest against the atrocities of security forces in Indian occupied Kashmir (IoK) Nawaz said that Pakistan stands with Kashmiris in every hour of trial adding that this relation is based not only on religion, civilization and humanity but also on blood.

“We will never leave Kashmiris alone and their case will be fought at all the diplomatic, political and human rights fora,” he reiterated.

Pakistan to observe black day over violence in Kashmir

He added that Pakistan cannot keep itself aloof if such recurrent inhuman treatment was meted out to the Kashmiris in IOK noting that the entire nation is expressing solidarity with the Kashmiri people.

He said the current freedom wave in Kashmir will not subside and that when nations rise in such a way, nothing can stop them in their path towards freedom. “India has no other option but to accept its defeat before the heroic struggle,” he said.

Published in The Express Tribune, July 20th, 2016.

Kashmir is part of Pakistan that is why we observe Black Day not bloody indians.... genrations of these Bloody Indians will never understand this until Kashmir gets freedom

 

[hassamun]

Not many people know that there is a President and a Prime Minister of Azad Kashmir...It would be a good step for India to follow...

Before our friends bring in Baluchistan we should remind them that even Liberation Parties are represented there...They have won a few seats in Baluchistan Parliament...

 

[AKD]

If you want to go suck hindu balls then go on your welcome to.
Pakistan was created because we hated hindus, didn't want to live with them, didn't want their higher nunbers mean we had to implement their hindu laws or ve sensitive to their beliefs

Why should Kashmiris have to suffer and bare to be subjugated by indians

So what about Jammu Hindu Ladakh Buddhists and Kashmir's Hindus and Sikhs???
We dont care what Pakistan says and we will stop islamisation of Kashmir and then let our Pandits return to their original land

 

[Joe Shearer]

Not many people know that there is a President and a Prime Minister of Azad Kashmir...It would be a good step for India to follow...

Before our friends bring in Baluchistan we should remind them that even Liberation Parties are represented there...They have won a few seats in Baluchistan Parliament...

Very interesting.

Could you quote the oath of office that these officers have to take? could you give me a copy of the constitution they follow, for my study?

Thanks.