India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

[jdme]

HAL is not in the same business as DRDO. They are different agencies, different work, cannot be compared.

HAL does manufacturing primarily, and they've done a pretty good job in that (manufacturing)

Hold on..By manufacturing, you basically mean assembly, unless you are talking about technology transfer or Indian actually building it's own stuff?

SO who does the maintenance work?

 

[jdme]

I just had a simple logic, why will you go for oldies when you have fresh kids on the block?

Coz new is not always "proven". Because new means whole new level of training for pilots. New means too many unknowns..Ofcourse you don't want to buy something that's obsolete either.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Like IAF, purely on technical terms..!!

No political views..

If there is a war with Pakistan/China, I would prefer in EF than Rafale to cross the broder..

You have the MIG29 and SU30MKI for that, they are IAF's Air Superiority Fighters and are expected to punch through the enemy's defences. IAF is looking for a multi role aircraft that can drop bombs with precision and can fight its way out. Out of both EF and Rafale, i would say the Rafale is a multi role aircraft while EF is more geared towards air superiority missions.

 

[ramu]

Hold on..By manufacturing, you basically mean assembly, unless you are talking about technology transfer or Indian actually building it's own stuff?

SO who does the maintenance work?

Manufacturing is not same as assembly. One of the activities in manufacturing is assembly. Manufacturing mechanical components is done by various techniques such as casting, forging, machining and other processes. Other aspects of manufacturing is raw material/stock selection or preparation of stock. Technology and process ofcourse will be available but still needs execution. In many of the cases, especially is closely gaurded defence product development, manufacturing at times is an art.

 

[Dash]

Coz new is not always "proven". Because new means whole new level of training for pilots. New means too many unknowns..Ofcourse you don't want to buy something that's obsolete either.

This may sound bookish but its true.

So when we bought MKIs, MIGs, they were also new and pilots got trained, US is still practicing to land V-22 Ospreys. Training and learning are a contineous thing, you cant stop yourself from advancing thinking new things are difficult to grasp.


If you go by new then EF and Rafale are only new airframe design. Techs and Missiles are more or less same in all planes except Migs I will say. However the one thing it guarentees is that EF and Rafale will have more future and life which are yet to come. You will rip the benifits even after 15 years. Thats the main advantage.

 

[ramu]

You have the MIG29 and SU30MKI for that, they are IAF's Air Superiority Fighters and are expected to punch through the enemy's defences. IAF is looking for a multi role aircraft that can drop bombs with precision and can fight its way out. Out of both EF and Rafale, i would say the Rafale is a multi role aircraft while EF is more geared towards air superiority missions.

I think you are right. I have the same opinion.

 

[jdme]

This may sound bookish but its true.

So when we bought MKIs, MIGs, they were also new and pilots got trained, US is still practicing to land V-22 Ospreys. Training and learning are a contineous thing, you cant stop yourself from advancing thinking new things are difficult to grasp.


If you go by new then EF and Rafale are only new airframe design. Techs and Missiles are more or less same in all planes except Migs I will say. However the one thing it guarentees is that EF and Rafale will have more future and life which are yet to come. You will rip the benifits even after 15 years. Thats the main advantage.

I may be repeating this for the 4th time but here it goes again: Russian/Americans...build their own plane. They have luxury of testing new planes because they have to. We are forking enormous sum of money over something that is not our own and if tomorrow it just crapped in it's pant, we won't be able to fix it. Buying someone else's plane is not advancing. It only guarantee's that we will always be behind. But since that's how we do it, why blow so much money over something untested? If it doesn't pan out tomorrow, will you be willing to pay through your pocket? If you wanna experiment, go experiment with LCA.

 

[jdme]

Manufacturing is not same as assembly. One of the activities in manufacturing is assembly. Manufacturing mechanical components is done by various techniques such as casting, forging, machining and other processes. Other aspects of manufacturing is raw material/stock selection or preparation of stock. Technology and process ofcourse will be available but still needs execution. In many of the cases, especially is closely gaurded defence product development, manufacturing at times is an art.

So more chances of screwing up? I hear IJT prototype crashed again. HAL built, right? Is it Indian designed?

 

[SpArK]

So more chances of screwing up? I hear IJT prototype crashed again. HAL built, right? Is it Indian designed?

yes its in design and testing mode... not like the ones fully developed and build with ToT.

 

[localoca]

Comparing French technology with chinese!

whe did the French develop fith gen tech...? heck they are strugling to sell their failed 4th gen Rafale...

Euro whished they had anything close to the high tech J-20

 

[koushik]

Whichever aircraft the IAF Chooses will be absolutely brilliant for the already developing Indian Military Aviation Industry.if IAF Chooses Eurofighter Typhoon it would become a strategic industrial partner in the European Consortium which manufactures Eurofighter so India will be able to integrate new technologies in the future tranches of Typhoon and even upgrade other aircrafts in its inventory with these technologies.Then again India will get access to the single crystal blade technology of the EJ-200 engine and can use it for its own use.On the other hand if Rafale is chosen india will be able to work closely with Dassault which has been a long and trustworthy supplier and may be in future a fine tuned of the Kaveri can be fitted on the Rafale.so its good for India in both ways.Senior Members what do think ?

 

[GORKHALI]

whe did the French develop fith gen tech...? heck they are strugling to sell their failed 4th gen Rafale...

Euro whished they had anything close to the high tech J-20

So would you like to paste some details for J 20 here ??? so at least w can compare what CMC sent you via email as you are not in china anyway.

 

[jdme]

^^I want a sub sandwich.

 

[GORKHALI]

whe did the French develop fith gen tech...? heck they are strugling to sell their failed 4th gen Rafale...

Euro whished they had anything close to the high tech J-20

Don't just try to derail some nice discussion,either you take back seat and start suckling ya toes or just wait and watch that how things should be done .Your call

 

[jdme]

I hear in both F-22 and J-20, W is painted as M. Is this some kind of 5th generation thing?