India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

[JayAtl]

They call it PIRATE which basically incorporates both FLIR and IRST capabilities . Once a target is tracked and identified, PIRATE can also cue a missile with High Off-boresight capability..
In addition to PIRATE , EF also has RWR + LWR +MAW.. All the data from these sensors are combined through AIS...

I guess SPECTRA is a combination of all the above sensors and is basically a package..Regarding the ACTIVE stealth- I find it too much to believe..

grr you guys talk in abbreviations-- what is RWR + LWR +MAW in layman terms

 

[SpArK]

UAE was considering RAFALE ( still is )...

They in all probabilities will go for hornet... US would step up the campaign..

 

[jha]

The Eurofighter Typhøon is equipped PIRATE (Passive Infrared Search and Track Equipment) IRST Suite.the PIRATE operates in the band of 3-5 and 8-11 Macrometer.When it is along with the radar in the Air-to-Air mode it acts as an IRST and also helps provide target designation for Air-to-surface weapons.The PIRATE can also be used as a navigation device when its data is linked with the pilot's Helmet Mounted Sights.this gives the pilot great situational awareness.

Your knowledge is impressive..At least I am impressed..I did not remember the exact wavelength..Just a little correction- It is MICROMETER not macrometer..

 

[KS]

okay , will know tomorrow. now thats settled why don't you start a thread RAF VS EF benchmarks... pretty please for those who don't wanna hunt a million posts from the past.

lol the moment Sancho and Prateek come to an agreement on the capabilities in the MRCA thread I will start a thread

The problem is EFT is a highly evolving platform and no one knows for sure if a particular capability that is promised is actually there on the platform or even if it is there in what phase it is in - integration or testing or live firing etc.

Same is the case with Rafale, though to a lesser extent.

@jha,Kaushik - what is the equivalent of the PIRATE on the Rafale ?

 

[Dash]

I used to be Koushik's age....when this MRCA stuff started..... abhi tu mere ko boool...daru nahi kya ?

Understand the pain, hold on. Daru is on the way once Rafale wins...

 

[jha]

grr you guys talk in abbreviations-- what is RWR + LWR +MAW in layman terms

RWR- radar warning receiver
LWR- Laser warning receiver
MAW- Missile Approach Warner

Names are self explanatory i guess..All these are included in DASS (Defensive Aids Sub-System )..

DASS has basically two parts-

1.Threat Detection
2.Protection

Threat Detection Part consists of RWR+LWR+MAW

Protection part has Chaff and Flares + Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) + Towed Radar Decoy (TRD)

 

[anathema]

They call it PIRATE which basically incorporates both FLIR and IRST capabilities . Once a target is tracked and identified, PIRATE can also cue a missile with High Off-boresight capability..
In addition to PIRATE , EF also has RWR + LWR +MAW.. All the data from these sensors are combined through AIS...

I guess SPECTRA is a combination of all the above sensors and is basically a package..Regarding the ACTIVE stealth- I find it too much to believe..

Correct...i was not getting the name of the system...yeah Spectra is all that ......But again Pirate is not yet into production and is till under testing phases (correct me if i am wrong)....

Active stealth is BS.....

 

[Water Car Engineer]

No more Super Hornet, damn it..

 

[JayAtl]

RWR- radar warning receiver
LWR- Laser warning receiver
MAW- Missile Approach Warner

Names are self explanatory i guess..

okay indulge me for a minute plz w/ perhaps a stupid question - why Laser warning? I got the other two.

 

[sancho]

The current shortlist is purely based on technical parameters based on the competitive flight testing of all the contenders in the varied climes as prescribed by IAF ASQR.

The F-18 is reported to have failed in the high altitude trials in Leh.

The shortlisting is done by MoD and the IAF report will have a part, but I think the general bids according to the RFP will be included here as well. IF these two are shortlisted, one common advantage of them the other 4 fighters is ToT! Both are pretty free to offer it not only from less important parts, but from critical techs like radar and engine. Offsets should be a big point as well, because both of them can offer JV and co-developments that will boost our industry, unlike the other vendors. Russia is already comitted here with MKI and FGFA, Sweden/Saab is too dependent on others themself and can't offer us anything useful in return, the US limits their involvement by their own laws and restrictions.

When we look at technical parameters, the only commonality would be the good A2A performance of both, otherwise the Rafale has an edge over the EF in nearly all fields (cheaper, more commonality, can be inducted faster, true multi role capable, ready and combat proven, funded, available as an operational carrier fighter, possible option for SFC...). For Indian forces, Rafale indeed is the obvious choice, for Indian industry, the EF is a good option!

 

[KS]

okay indulge me for a minute plz w/ perhaps a stupid question - why Laser warning? I got the other two.

I guess many IRST/FLIR sensors use Laser for designating their targets and that why.

Perhaps others could explain it well.

 

[nikhilarya]

finally, i could guess it when vivek lal joined reliance. so Boeing and LM was already out of MMRCA, i prefer euro fighter, its good for India that euro fighter have spares problem, a lot sub vendors will be happy to make spares for it, Rafale wont give us any opportunity to develop private manufacturing sector.

 

[koushik]

Thanx so much jha bhaiya. To Mr.Palash_kol, actualy u are right when I'll turn 21 i feel it would be better to marry Rafale but it would be very painful for me to marry rafale bcoz my childhood love is Su-30 MKI.Anyways both are better than my current girlfriend she doesn't to leave me.

 

[jha]

okay indulge me for a minute plz w/ perhaps a stupid question - why Laser warning? I got the other two.

Many a times Aircrafts are fitted with Laser Range finding equipment to determine the distance accurately. Plus Laser Guided weapons use Laser Beam to hit the target..LWR is supposed to counter these threats..

 

[Abingdonboy]

Can any explain to me why the Rafele is considered unfit for the Vikramdatiya and IAC in STOBAR configuration when it is actually SMALLER than the Mig 29k. It has been said the Rafale was unfit many time as it was much larger and heavier than Mig 29k but looking at the specs tell a different story:
Mig 29k

Crew: One
Length: 17.3 m (57.76 ft)
Wingspan: 11.99 m (39.34 ft)
Height: 4.40 m (14.44 ft)
Wing area: 43 m² (462 ft²)
Loaded weight: 18,550 kg (40,900 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 24,500 kg (54,000 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Klimov RD-33MK afterburning turbofans, 9,000 kgf (88.3 kN, 19,800 lbf) each
Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 2+ (2,200 km/h, 1,370 mph) / At low altitude: Mach 1.2 (1,400 km/h, 870 mph)
Ferry range: 2,000 km (1,240 mi) / 3,000 km (1,860 mi) with 3 drop tanks
Service ceiling: 17,500 m (57,400 ft)
Rate of climb: initial 330 m/s, average 109 m/s 0-6000 m[37] (65,000 ft/min)
Wing loading: 442kg/m² (90.5 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 0.97

Rafele

Crew: 1–2
Length: 15.27 m (50.1 ft)
Wingspan: 10.80 m (35.4 ft)
Height: 5.34 m (17.5 ft)
Wing area: 45.7 m² (492 ft²)
Empty weight: 9,500kg (C), 9,770kg (B),[88] 10,196kg (M) ()
Loaded weight: 14,016kg (30,900 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 24,500kg (C/D), 22,200kg (M)[89] (54,000 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Snecma M88-2 turbofans
Dry thrust: 50.04 kN (11,250 lbf) each
Thrust with afterburner: 75.62 kN (17,000 lbf) each
Performance
Maximum speed: **High altitude: Mach 2 (2,390 km/h, 1,290 knots)[88]
Low altitude: 1,390km/h, 750 knots
Range: 3,700+ km (2,000+ nmi)
Combat radius: 1,852+ km (1,000+ nmi) on penetration mission .
Service ceiling: 16,800 m (55,000 ft)
Rate of climb: 304.8+ m/s (60,000+ ft/min)
Wing loading: 306kg/m² (62.8 lb/ft²

note thrust and take off weight
I suppose it is more relevant to N-MRCA, but I suppose this is the next stop.