India Says No To China Warning, India to co-operate with VN.

[gpit]

Is this the best of Indian Trolling ????

LOL!

That's a typical Made in India.

 

[gpit]

yeah like what? Give me some critical thinking here... I'm up for a civil intelligent debate

Block your entry into UNSC, for instance.

That alone will sufficiently make you whine.

This is a typical so called "soft power": no actual resources are used but highly efficient.

 

[King123]

Block your entry into UNSC, for instance.

That alone will sufficiently make you whine.

This is a typical so called "soft power": no actual resources are used but highly efficient.

What does it will make difference for India-Vietnam relation ??

 

[jdme]

it is very silly of india to wind up china. China has a lot of incredible options to wind up incredible indians.

India heard something similar from other country in past . Well 2011 is coming to an end. Hurry up!

 

[JayAtl]

Having thought about it I think indian govt is being incredibly silly to wind up chinese

---------- Post added at 09:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 PM ----------



well they could sign a defence treaty with pakistan, sri lanka and bangladesh for starters lol

are you serious? What kind of defense treaty ? Go on ...

 

[JustForFun]

When playing these types of games one has better prepared a realistic response to all posible actions of the opposing player.
Politicians in democracies are not known for having thought things through nor for having a spine to stick to the plan.

 

[IndoCarib]

When playing these types of games one has better prepared a realistic response to all posible actions of the opposing player.
Politicians in democracies are not known for having thought things through nor for having a spine to stick to the plan.

I am sure the mandarins of south block ( MEA) would have thought this through before embarking on Vietnam plan.

 

[JustForFun]

I am sure the mandarins of south block ( MEA) would have thought this through before embarking on Vietnam plan.

I hope so. Last thing we want is to see this escalate. Countries on the rise often ooze confidence. You can see it in both the politicians and the general population. If this starts escalating, media will start whipping the public mindset into a state of ein frische fröhliche Krieg.

What are India's options when China decides to defend , in their perception, their territory by force? Or worse, remove the Indian presence from , again in their perception, their territory.

 

[below_freezing]

I hope so. Last thing we want is to see this escalate. Countries on the rise often ooze confidence. You can see it in both the politicians and the general population. If this starts escalating, media will start whipping the public mindset into a state of ein frische fröhliche Krieg.

What are India's options when China decides to defend , in their perception, their territory by force? Or worse, remove the Indian presence from , again in their perception, their territory.

true. india should not overestimate itself. there is a dangerous stream of thought in india, that somehow assumes that China and India are qualitatively the same, only that China's a bit bigger. That is incredibly wrong.

China's socialist system gives us some immense and permanent advantages over India, such as high basic literacy, high universal education and high lifespan for our income. Despite being poorer than India in 1980, we still had a higher literacy rate and higher average lifespan!

if India attempts to drill in our waters, then the government should reserve the right to remove their illegal poaching ships with force if necessary.

 

[Roybot]

Not another thread on this shyte

 

[perplexed]

true. india should not overestimate itself. there is a dangerous stream of thought in india, that somehow assumes that China and India are qualitatively the same, only that China's a bit bigger. That is incredibly wrong.

China's socialist system gives us some immense and permanent advantages over India, such as high basic literacy, high universal education and high lifespan for our income. Despite being poorer than India in 1980, we still had a higher literacy rate and higher average lifespan!

if India attempts to drill in our waters, then the government should reserve the right to remove their illegal poaching ships with force if necessary.

I will tell u son what are the permanent advantages :
1. India has more population in 20-40 age group which is supposedly the most productive years of a man's life. So, we have demographic advantage.

2. Yeah your high universal education system where graduates and post graduates are learning english(we study english in our primary school) to atleast stand a chance against the highly educated Indians.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I will tell u son what are the permanent advantages :
1. India has more population in 20-40 age group which is supposedly the most productive years of a man's life. So, we have demographic advantage.

2. Yeah your high universal education system where graduates and post graduates are learning english(we study english in our primary school) to atleast stand a chance against the highly educated Indians.

Well, people in China doesn't regard English as important as the people in India.

During the 1990s, there was a fad of learning English for everyone in China. Now this trend seems to be gone.

 

[JustForFun]

india should not overestimate itself.

It's not about India overestimating itself. China probably also overestimates itself (and moreso the population rather than the government). This is natural when your country is rising and the future is bright.

The real problem with this is the power of media and public opinion.
At the start of a crisis with a clearly defined external enemy public opinion becomes more nationalistic (I have no other other explanation than this when looking at the aproval rate of Bush at the start of the 2nd Gulf war).
Whereas the Chinese government can choose to ignore public opinion and oposition in parliament (what oposition?) and shutdown media to do whatever they had planned (push India or backdown and defuse the situation or ...), question is can GOI do the same and stick to their wisely thought trough and carefully calculated series of responses?

China's socialist system gives us some immense and permanent advantages over India, such as high basic literacy, high universal education and high lifespan for our income. Despite being poorer than India in 1980, we still had a higher literacy rate and higher average lifespan!

I do not see what this claim has to do with this discussion, mayby only to show that overestimating itself goes both ways!

 

[perplexed]

Well, people in China doesn't regard English as important as the people in India.

During the 1990s, there was a fad of learning English for everyone in China. Now this trend seems to be gone.

Thats a good thing but since almost all your customers are english speaking country.. it makes it imperative to learn english i guess...

 

[lemurian]

When playing these types of games one has better prepared a realistic response to all possible actions of the opposing player.
Politicians in democracies are not known for having thought things through nor for having a spine to stick to the plan.

Yes.. And this article says exactly that..

India and the South China Seas: The Need for a Second Look | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses

IDSA COMMENT
India and the South China Seas: The Need for a Second Look

A recent article in the Chinese newspaper ‘Global Times’ by the columnist Liu Sheng cautioning India against going ahead with collaboration with Vietnam for oil and gas exploration in the South China Sea, is a timely reminder of the dangerous pitfalls that still exist in the Sino-Indian relationship. The Global Times quoted Jiang Yu, a spokesperson of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of China, to state that ‘as for oil and gas exploration...we are opposed to any country engaged in the waters under China’s jurisdiction. We hope foreign countries do not get involved in the South China Sea dispute’. Although India was not directly named, yet the finger clearly pointed towards India. The paper also said that the oil reserves in the South China Sea were not an insignificant 28 billion barrels. Understandably, this homily from the Chinese, although vaguely worded, has received widespread coverage in the print and visual media in India. ONGC has an investment of about US$ 225 million in Vietnam.

The question uppermost in the minds of most Indians is how should we react to this piece of bluster? Should we just ignore this gratuitous ‘advice’ and go ahead with exploration in collaboration with Vietnam or should we listen to Chinese ‘advice’ and stay out of disputes that exist in the South China Sea? The Chinese media quoting well known personalities from university ‘think tanks’ in China seem to suggest that we are being pushed into such a course of action by the ‘active support of the US’. While the columnist scrupulously avoided attributing any malevolence to Vietnamese intentions, it pointedly referred to the existence since June this year of a bilateral agreement between China and Vietnam to settle all such disputes, ‘through negotiations and consultations.’ A clear hint to India that China’s line to Vietnam was still open!

It goes without saying that the most popular reaction would be to simply ignore the Chinese and go ahead with the bilateral arrangement with Vietnam. After all if India is considering an agreement with Vietnam, it would automatically follow that India does consider these waters to be within Vietnamese jurisdiction. That seems to be the position adopted by the government of India when Foreign Minister Krishna told his Vietnamese counterpart Pham Binh Minh that India would ‘go-ahead’ and that India’s position was based on the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Seas. However, the real test would be if the rest of the countries involved in the South China Sea disputes such as the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei or even Taiwan also consider these waters to be Vietnamese. If none of them have protested to either India or to Vietnam over the proposed agreement, then China’s case becomes that much weaker and would be pure bluster. And what is the legal position of the US, Japan and perhaps South Korea? Not much is known publicly. Nevertheless, we cannot simply dismiss China’s protests as irrelevant, for the implications for India–China relations can be rather disturbing, including the security of our borders. Nor should we base our reactions on jingoism, but conduct a cool, calculated analysis of the emerging situation.

It goes without saying that when China protests we should always pay very close attention. In this case we would have to keep in mind the range of possibilities that exist and the options available should China decide to take its protests to the next stage; thereby triggering a confrontation. In the past China has demonstrated that when it comes to her own backyard, particularly the South China Sea, she is very sensitive and overtly aggressive. Often recourse has been taken to not only physically harassing the offending party, but cables and wires where work is in progress have been deliberately cut. Should ONGC-Videsh, the contracting party in this case, suffer a similar fate, what would be the reaction of the government of India? It is extremely problematical whether the Indian Navy can do a power projection just yet in the South China Sea to ward off the Chinese Navy. Nor are the Vietnamese in any position to do so. To fold our tent after the Chinese have initiated action would be a serious blow to our prestige.

We would do well to keep in mind that we have a long unsettled border with China. It is not possible to police every inch of this border. Therefore the Chinese at present retain the option, if they do wish to exercise it, of intruding several kilometres across the ‘Line of Actual Control’. As the LOAC is not demarcated on the ground, both India and China have different perceptions as to its actual alignment. The ground for creating mischief is therefore available.

The crux of the matter would be the role and attitude of the US and the only force capable of thwarting the Chinese in the South China Sea – the US 7th Fleet. In the recent past on Sino-Indian issues the attitude of the US has been rather ambivalent. Even in the aftermath of the 1962 conflict Robert Komer, an influential National Security Council staff member, wrote a memo for President Kennedy on December 16, 1962 which highlighted the following:

‘That it is as much in our strategic interest to keep up a high degree of Sino-Indian friction as it is to prevent from spilling over into a large scale war’. [FRUS 61-63 Vol. xix.]

In the present times the US is beset with economic problems with its public debt which was US$ 6.4 trillion in 2008 constituting about 60 per cent of its GDP, now having climbed to US$ 14.2 trillion or 98 per cent of its GDP. Only Italy and Japan are worse off amongst the major powers. China is one of the biggest holders of US debt. According to the well known US economist, Joseph Stiglitz, the Iraq war alone cost the US some US $3 trillion and there is still no end yet in sight for US involvement both in Iraq and Afghanistan. Its armed forces are unduly stretched. It is for this reason that the US turned down the pleas of its close NATO allies France and the UK and refused to militarily intervene in the recent crisis in Libya.

Given the present predicament of the US, Indian policy planners would do well to pay due heed to caution when dealing with a potentially explosive situation that might develop in the South China Seas. There is no point in acting with bravado when we do not have the necessary military capacity to take on the Chinese in the South China Seas. It would be very wise indeed to take a hard second look at our involvement in the disputed waters of the South China Sea!