India’s Muslims. Growing, and neglected.

[farhan_9909]

what is the present literacy rate of indian muslims?

i heard that they are the poorest community of india but never heard about there literacy rate

 

[anonymus]

what is the present literacy rate of indian muslims?

i heard that they are the poorest community of india but never heard about there literacy rate

It trails rest of the communities only in Urban areas and that too by 3% but their literacy rate is 59% compared to 74% of rest.

see page 18 for details.I have explained it while answering to one of your imbecile countrymate.

 

[SQ8]

Here is an alternative article I received(not sure if it has been posted before or not).. on Muslims in India.. although it is addressed to Hafiz Saeed in an attempt to downplay the terror threat to Indo-Pakistan relations.

While I do not agree with quite a bit of assertions in the article especially those which praise Akbar's confused and distorted religion.. there are quite a few things that are worth looking into.. especially the role of Sufi's in India.
Perhaps I am being too critical and that is quite likely.. but at no point does the article talk of a well established Indian Muslim.. just those occupying blue collar jobs.. but perhaps it stems from the writers PoV.

Dear Janaab Hafiz Saed Saheb,

In my previous letter, I explained your identity to you. In this letter I will address the issues of conflicts emerging from your identity. I will explain the fact that clashes between the ‘Hindu-Muslims’ and the followers of Brahmanical religious orders had nothing extraordinary. They emanated from the same forces which drive any conflict in the evolutionary history of mankind. There is nothing religious to them. In fact all such conflicts have their roots in the human psyche and or its various conflicting faculties like faith and reason.

The advent of Islam in India goes back to 7th or 8th century A.D. when the Arab traders came to the western coast of India and made settlements in the present day states of Maharashtra, Kerala and Konkan region. The dynasties like Rashtrakutas gave those traders all the opportunities of trade and settlement in their kingdoms. This was so because Indian ruling clans were always welcoming trade and the benefits coming from that. Those traders were even allowed to build mosques in their kingdoms. The Arab writer Al Masudi 9th century A.D. talks about such flourishing Muslim settlements in southern parts of India. Those traders practiced and proselytized their faith and there was no violence accompanied that process of cultural intermingling. After that there was one another phase of such cultural intermingling and spread of Islam which was not accompanied by violence. It was the phase of Sufism which began in 12thcentury with the advent of Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti and continued through the millennia until 19th century. In this phase several Brahmanical followers from various castes converted to Islam because of the influence of Sufi

saints like Mahboob-e-Ilahi Nizaam-ud-din Auliya, Garib Nawaaz Gesudaraaz Banda Nawaaz , Hamiduddin Nagauri. They could influence people because of their good behavior, humanitarian values and various miracles associated with them.

Now I will discuss the times when the spread of Islam was accompanied with violence. Before this let me make it clear that whenever any religion begins, after the initial phase when it witnesses the active involvement of its founder or prophet, it tends to be played at the hands of those who seek political power. This happens because the popularity of that religious ideology and its appeal make it a very convenient and easy way to seek and legitimize power. On the other hand the new converts to that religion or its passionate clergy elements find the political support a very easy way to expand their faith in order to strengthen their position. Same thing happened in case of Islam. In the Arab world, when Islam after the demise of Prophet, came to be backed by political power of caliphates and later sultans of Mawra-un-Nahar (Transoxiana) then it became political Islam or rather an expansionist Islam. This was evident in the form of conquering Sassanids of Iran and the capture of Turkistan. This was also evident in the form of demolition of Buddhist monasteries in Afghanistan and Trans oxiana region. The march of the sultans beyond Hindukush, and before that the Arab invasion of Sind in 712A.D was accompanied by large scale demolition of local temples and conversions. Sultan Mahmud Ghaznavi’s looting of Somnath was also the manifestation of political Islam. Although superficially all these invasions were done in the name of Islam but the real intentions of the ruling class were personal ambitions seeking power. The temples like Somnath and Buddhist monasteries had loads of wealth in those times so they became their first targets. The ideology of Islam and the faith became just the rallying point or something to inspire poor soldiers to sacrifice their lives. This kind of political conflict or political aggression in course of time (due to natural logic of history and some vested politico-economic interests) got projected as an inter-religious conflict or inter-communal conflict. This phenomenon is not something specific to be associated with the arrival of Islam in India. This had happened before also in the history of sub-continent. Initially in Buddha’s time several Brahmins adopted Buddhism but later when the religious order started getting state support form Magadhan rulers and Mauryan king Ashoka then the Sangha (Buddhist religious order) also assumed political ambitions and violent conflicts erupted between brahmanical followers and Buddhists. There was a phase of bitter acrimony and tensions which can be seen in Buddhist scriptures, Buddhist version of Ramayana. It can also be seen in the depiction of Buddhist deities in which their deities are shown as defeating Brahmanical Gods. It continued until the reign of Harshvardhana (647 A.D.). The Buddhists were supported by the king and in the Buddhist council which he organized there was severe clash between Brahmins and Buddhist monks.

Similarly examples of such clashes in the name of religion (basically for political and economic power) are evident in the clash between Kshtriyas and Brahmins in the vedic period, between Jains and brahmanical faiths (this clash is continuing even now), between shudras and Brahmin/Kshtriyas, between shaivaites and vaishnaivites ( Shashank, the shaivite king of Gaud,Bengal cut the Bodhi tree of Buddhism in the reign of Harsh).

So, Hafiz sahib what I want to convey is that the history of conflict between different ideologies and faiths is perfectly natural. Where ever there is diversity, to begin with conflicts do occur. But it’s a process and next stage in the process is of harmony, shared traditions, peaceful co-existence. So, please stop dwelling on the ideas of Islam in danger, divine intervention on white horses to wipe out all other faiths etc. In the next part of this letter I will discuss the next stage of the process which I just mentioned.

The difference between the fundamentals of Buddhism and Brahmanical religions and Jainism was much more pronounced than the difference between the fundamentals of Islam and Brahmanical religious order. Buddhists believed in the idea of ‘no soul’, ‘no god’. Similarly Jainas also believed that God could not be above the Tirthankaras (self realized humans like Mahavira). With Islam at least few things are in common like the idea of prophethood, monotheism, the notion of devotion or bhakti. These different religious systems started with these fundamental differences and politico-religious conflicts but in course of time they came to terms with each other. The differences at scriptural level remained and surfaced at various instances but the compulsion of co-existence and common culture mitigated these differences to varying degrees and what followed was the shared traditions, common customs. The interaction and co-existence with Jainism led the imbibing of the idea of non-violence (ahimsa), cow worship etc in Brahmanical religion. Even today Jainas and Hindus worship common gods like Ganesh (the elephant god) and lakshmi (goddess of wealth) and Shiva (the lord of destruction). This happened because the converts to Jainism were traders who even before Jainism were worshipping the goddess of wealth, Ganesh and Shiva. So the culture triumphed and led to peace between these orders. The interaction with Buddhism led to the growth of the philosophy of Advait Vedanta (non dual monotheism) and the practice of meditation. The Bodhisatvas of Buddhism were commonly worshipped by the followers of both orders. It also led to the growth of Nathpanthi sect (esoteric order which practiced a set of physical and breathing exercises to realize god). The intermingling of Buddhism and brahmanical order was much more pronounced than the intermingling of Jainism and brahmanical order. When Buddhism went to China ,Japan and Central Asia the same process followed and it developed regional variants like pagan-buddhism etc. In fact there were several other religio-philosophical orders with different fundamentals, like Charvaka (atheism and materialism), sankhya( dualism) , Mimansa etc., who in spite of the differences and initial clashes developed common practices of worship and survival. The culture played a very important role in that process. Human life is not just about faith and worship, it is also about economy, trade and livelihood etc which can’t be sacrificed for supernatural entities. The mere compulsion of living together happily and prosperously prepares the ground for peaceful co-existence. The culture and material interests brought peace, made bridges and in turn they also got reshaped to cater to the needs of peaceful co-existence.

The same stage was witnessed in the relations between Islam and Brahmanical orders in India after the initial conflict. The drivers of this stage were the people like Khawaja Moinuddin Chishti, Nizam-ud-Din Auliya sahib, requirements of staying together and sustaining economy on the same land etc. The first product of this process was Amir Khusro who serenaded ‘Chap tilak sab chode mose naina milaike’ in the ears of our ancestors and we still feel the spiritual depth of these lines. The best product of this stage was Jalaluddin Muhammad Akbar who laid the foundations of Ganga-jamuni Tahzeeb or joint hindu-muslim culture of doab region. The other products were Rahim gave his life to the music of lord Krishna’s flute, Abdur Rahim Khan-e-Khanan who wrote poetry in the praise of Krishna. And yes how can I forget Kabir, Sai Baba or Shirdi, Manik prabhu of Gulbargha. All these people emphasized upon the harmony and peace between two communities. This peaceful interaction was also seen in other domains of life like politics in the form of joint Mughal-rajput state and the marital relations between the two groups. In fact you would be shocked to learn that in my place (Udaipur, Rajasthan) until recently rajputs and pathans used to intermarry among each other. In my state in almost every village you will find about 10 to 100 Muslim families. This level of spread of Islam speaks volumes about the peaceful interaction between these two faith systems. In economy also this partnership was seen in its full vigor. Even in crime this partnership made its presence. You might have heard about the cult of thugs in 19th century India. This was a cult who believed that its divine duty was to unleash destruction in the cosmos. This cult included Muslims, Brahmins, rajputs and people from other communities. In this cult the Muslim members did Namaz five times a day, read Kalma but they also worshipped Goddess Kali (the deity of destruction), wearing a Dhoti ( a dress which brahmin priests wear during yajna rituals) and with vermillion on their forehead. Can you imagine a Muslim worshipping goddess Kali ? You will go beserk if you even hear something like this. But this happened and it happened because the goddess was the patron goddess of their cult. Another examples of this process are the Muslim participation in Ganapati processions in Mumbai, Durga( goddess) processions in Bengal, holi, diwali. Brahmanical people’s participation in Id, Muharram etc. Today millions of non-muslims visit Khawaja Sharif in Ajmer, auliya sahib in Delhi. In fact for any sort of divine illnesses non-Muslims visit various mazars and dargaahs. The practice of Peeri and muridi is exactly the same as the practice of sadguru and shishya( teacher and disciple) of Brahmanical orders.

The caste system in Muslims, Christians and Sikhs is the remnant of these peaceful interaction between the two communities despite the fact that fundamemtals of the above mentioned orders reject caste system. The Kayamkhani Muslims who converted from chauhan rajputs still retain a horde of their old practices in terms of their dressing, eating habits and other aspects of culture. They cover their heads but they do not wear burqa or hijab. They wear kurti and kanchli( traditional Rajput female outfit). The system of purdah in rajputs of India is practice which was derived from Mughals. Another excellent product of this interaction was Urdu which was a mixture of Hindi, Punjabi, Avadhi, Turkish, Persian and Arabic. Even today the language of police department in Rajasthan( one of the state of India) is Urdu. My father speaks better Urdu than any Punjabi Pakistani.

The washerman Faiz Muhammad of my village is another product of this common culture. He has been staying in my village for generations. He knows more about my grandfather than I know. He is a devout Muslim but he doesn’t know anything about you, wahabism, Al quaida and Arabic pride of Islam. The constable Altaf who managed my sister’s wedding as a most trusted man of my father is also the product of this common cultural heritage. Altaf used to wear a dhoti with a vermillion and assist Brahmin priests. After his job, he used to go to his room for his Namaz. Those two pathan girls who did mehandi in my sister’s wedding and were with her much more than a real sister could ever be, still bring tears into my eyes. Makbool Chahca is still the most reverend figure for our family. He is a pious Muslim but he also unfortunately knows nothing about you.

The strongest evidence of this peaceful culture-driven interaction presented itself to me when I came to Cornell university. Here my first and the most natural friends were not Brahmins from south Indian state of Tamilnadu or from Assam or Nagaland( northeastern states) but Raza, Wasiq, Hira, Hajra from Pakistan, Rafi from Afghanistan and Olinda from Bangladesh. This is a very strong evidence of the phenomenon that culture makes the national and religious boundaries irrelevant.

You must realize that with you activities you are basically doing a severe harm to devout Muslims like Altaf, those two pathan girls and Makbool chacha. More than this you are doing a great disservice to humanity. You are doing something which is most hated by Allah, the almighty. You are trying to hinder the process of Allah, the process of history, the process of evolution of ideas and philosophy. You are going for a head strong collision with dialectics of ideas. But mind it, that this process is natural and logical. It can be tempered with, disturbed and delayed but cannot be ended. The colonial rulers and the selfish politicians on both sides tried to stop this process (again to seek political authority by firing religious passions) and that resulted in Pakistan and Bangladesh. But today again after 60 years of freedom we have created a happy and prosperous culture where 80% Brahmanical followers live with 14% muslims, 2.3% Christians and 1.3% sikhs live together peacefully. Now if you try to stop this process Allah might do the same to you what he did to Osama-bib-Laden because if true muslims like Altaf, Makbool chacha etc are hurt Allah the almighty will not forgive hypocrites like you.

So please do not stop us from loving Pakistan. Do not stop my friends from coming to India and me from coming to taste the delicacies and see the beauties of Lahore.

Alhamdullilaah

Jai Hind,

Abhinav Pandya

 

[Mike_Brando]

We Indian Muslim will love to die in india from our Hindu Brother rather then get killed by mad TTP or LEJ in Pakistan.
There is no such condition in India that we cannot handle we always made bad decision voting for congress but time is changing and i don't mind Voting for BJP or some other parties who will treat every body same not base on their caste and condition and give equal oppurtunity no special treatment.

It is your fellow Indians trying to kick you guys out, I only said there is no room for you in Pakistan neither is anyone there going to welcome you guys with open arms.

brother trust me no sane Indian Hindu wants to kill an Indian Muslim because you are an Indian first and then you are a Muslim just like i am an Indian first then a Hindu.but i do admit that there are some fringe element in the Indian society(just look at sone of the Indian posters here) who just want to start unnecessary violence between our communities and they are nothing but the Hindu version of Jamaat i Islami in India but i must clarify one thing that most of these people are not supporters of BJP and neither is BJP against the Indian Muslims.its a false propaganda that has been circulated by that wicked congress party so that they can always run this country by polarizing the votes and creating tension between the two communities.so next time you or any of your family members exercise their voting rights make sure that they do it wisely or else these monsters will keep polarizing us in the name of religion just for the vote banks politics!
secondly as a Hindu i am proud of my Indian Muslim brothers who have proved their loyalty and patriotism countless times and are as much Indians as we Hindus are!

 

[asad71]

O Hindustani Mussalman!

Why do you forget how the infidels wiped you out in al Andalusia? Tissues of lies, false promises, false smiles, insincere friendships, ruses of all kinds were used over four centuries after the fall of Cordoba to fool the Muslims. O brothers and sisters, take heed. Guard your Iman.

 

[SQ8]

O Hindustani Mussalman!

Why do you forget how the infidels wiped you out in al Andalusia? Tissues of lies, false promises, false smiles, insincere friendships, ruses of all kinds were used over four centuries after the fall of Cordoba to fool the Muslims. O brothers and sisters, take heed. Guard your Iman.

I dont think Iman is in danger as is their actual status.
And while I doubt there will be genocide on the scale of Andalusia in India(simply because it is no longer possible to do so and avoid the wrath of the world).. but there will be the reduction(or is already) of Muslims to a serving class.. the taxi driver, the gutter cleaner, the washman, the minor bank clerk..
In that will be interspersed success stories to keep the rest of the community happy and subservient..
After all, with that.. why would you want to kill and dispose of a potentially large workforce... in a caste system?

 

[anonymus]

O Hindustani Mussalman!

Why do you forget how the infidels wiped you out in al Andalusia? Tissues of lies, false promises, false smiles, insincere friendships, ruses of all kinds were used over four centuries after the fall of Cordoba to fool the Muslims. O brothers and sisters, take heed. Guard your Iman.

DUDE,

You Need

 

[Srinivas]

I dont think Iman is in danger as is their actual status.
And while I doubt there will be genocide on the scale of Andalusia in India(simply because it is no longer possible to do so and avoid the wrath of the world).. but there will be the reduction(or is already) of Muslims to a serving class.. the taxi driver, the gutter cleaner, the washman, the minor bank clerk..
In that will be interspersed success stories to keep the rest of the community happy and subservient..
After all, with that.. why would you want to kill and dispose of a potentially large workforce... in a caste system?

Completely wrong in your view, Muslim elite got migrated to Pakistan and what ever muslims left in India belong to poor and so today you find them one of the poor in India.

Muslims even in Mugal time majority belong to poor since even Mugal emperors after conversion treated them as slaves. Some of the elite who were converted were given land and are treated as Zameendars.

 

[Sugarcane]

I don't care about your personal ideologies.I am talking about the ideology that defines your national identity.Something called Two Nation theory.

What do you know about two nation theory?

 

[SQ8]

Completely wrong in your view, Muslim elite got migrated to Pakistan and what ever muslims left in India belong to poor and so today you find them one of the poor in India.

Muslims even in Mugal time majority belong to poor since even Mugal emperors after conversion treated them as slaves. Some of the elite who were converted were given land and are treated as Zameendars.

I dont entirely disagree with your view.. but that does little to alleviate the question(although the ratio of elite migrating and staying elite is quite the opposite.. the Zameendars were there already..quite a few of the elite who migrated ended up as lower middle class in Pakistan.)

if only poor Muslims were left.. then why are they still poor? There were other poor communities as well who are moving faster ahead then Muslims... if it the fault of the latter.. then it is the governments responsibility to highlight those leadership circles that are a hindrance to growth.

 

[Srinivas]

I dont entirely disagree with your view.. but that does little to alleviate the question(although the ratio of elite migrating and staying elite is quite the opposite.. the Zameendars were there already..quite a few of the elite who migrated ended up as lower middle class in Pakistan.)

if only poor Muslims were left.. then why are they still poor? There were other poor communities as well who are moving faster ahead then Muslims... if it the fault of the latter.. then it is the governments responsibility to highlight those leadership circles that are a hindrance to growth.

Yes it is not entirely at the fault of Govt. the poor in India who are progressing thrive and adopt to the changes where as some communities are stubborn and resist any change.

 

[Sugarcane]

Again the impractical mind....you understand that its not just you and me...there are other people too who don't have our patience......again chaos, what you should understand is price...does the price of what i gave you as an example or what the original argument is..is that worth it...i guess not

Ok - tell me before Partition these laws were enforced? How much communal violence were there in absence of these laws? any neutral credible source?

 

[Azazel]

What do you know about two nation theory?

What do you want to know???

 

[KRAIT]

I dont think Iman is in danger as is their actual status.
And while I doubt there will be genocide on the scale of Andalusia in India(simply because it is no longer possible to do so and avoid the wrath of the world).. but there will be the reduction(or is already) of Muslims to a serving class.. the taxi driver, the gutter cleaner, the washman, the minor bank clerk.. In that will be interspersed success stories to keep the rest of the community happy and subservient.. After all, with that.. why would you want to kill and dispose of a potentially large workforce... in a caste system?

Hindus also do the same work. Its about how a person is educated and what is his talent is. Still SC/ST/OBC have reservation and Muslim are educated too.

Why would one kill a religion following people, who gave best scientists, writers, actors, players, engineers, doctors, President, Vice President, Chief Justice of Supreme Court, best businessmen, MLAs, MPs, Security Officers, they do same what Hindus do.

As people say the frame of reference and POV paints a different image when a person rejects rationality and finding good in midst of bad and understanding what the Muslims of one part of Sub-Continent brought laurels to their country, while Some other part brought shame.

People around the world who are paranoid and prejudiced treated the one country's Muslims bad because of few Muslims of other country.

Why o why, people ignore that among the most peaceful population and third largest population of Muslims produced so many good people at all sphere of life than suicide bombers from the other 50 + nation in the world for Muslims.

Why o why people, don't see that its about society, nationalism, tolerance, understanding, brotherhood and solving disagreement with talks not terror, always solve the problem, lets say for 1 %, it doesn't.

Why o why people think that they are neglected when there are 450 million poor people in a country of 1.2 billion where 81% are Hindus.

Why o why people don't see that few sections of Hindus are oppressed more than Muslims by few castes, that they live in harsh conditions, on roads, railway stations, hungry, torn off clothes, without a roof on their head.

Why of why people are Worried of Indian Muslims who are mere 14.5 % of India but fail to see that 81 % also needs upliftment.

Did Indian Muslims made the wrong choice by choosing to live in India, where they don't have to declare their Prophet an imposter to get passport, or any identification card, they don't have to live in constant fear of being attacked by Muslim brothers ?

Don't people realize that Indian Army with Hindus and Sikhs as majority protect all INDIANS not only Hindus but also Muslims.

Why people are hell bent to prove that their existence is defined by the relative comparison with Indian Muslims and urge us to reply this way.

Alas, if they have focused more on their own minorities than Indian minority, things would have been much good for them and they then could have a better case.



At the end, when they are going to stop seeing Indians through religious lenses. For them, no matter whatever the religion on an Indian is, he/she will remain an Indian, nothing more Nothing less.

I dont think Iman is in danger as is their actual status.
And while I doubt there will be genocide on the scale of Andalusia in India(simply because it is no longer possible to do so and avoid the wrath of the world).. but there will be the reduction(or is already) of Muslims to a serving class.. the taxi driver, the gutter cleaner, the washman, the minor bank clerk.. In that will be interspersed success stories to keep the rest of the community happy and subservient.. After all, with that.. why would you want to kill and dispose of a potentially large workforce... in a caste system?

Hindus also do the same work. Its about how a person is educated and what is his talent is. Still SC/ST/OBC have reservation and Muslim are educated too.

Why would one kill a religion following people, who gave best scientists, writers, actors, players, engineers, doctors, President, Vice President, Chief Justice of Supreme Court, best businessmen, MLAs, MPs, Security Officers, they do same what Hindus do.

As people say the frame of reference and POV paints a different image when a person rejects rationality and finding good in midst of bad and understanding what the Muslims of one part of Sub-Continent brought laurels to their country, while Some other part brought shame.

People around the world who are paranoid and prejudiced treated the one country's Muslims bad because of few Muslims of other country.

Why o why, people ignore that among the most peaceful population and third largest population of Muslims produced so many good people at all sphere of life than suicide bombers from the other 50 + nation in the world for Muslims.

Why o why people, don't see that its about society, nationalism, tolerance, understanding, brotherhood and solving disagreement with talks not terror, always solve the problem, lets say for 1 %, it doesn't.

Why o why people think that they are neglected when there are 450 million poor people in a country of 1.2 billion where 81% are Hindus.

Why o why people don't see that few sections of Hindus are oppressed more than Muslims by few castes, that they live in harsh conditions, on roads, railway stations, hungry, torn off clothes, without a roof on their head.

Why of why people are Worried of Indian Muslims who are mere 14.5 % of India but fail to see that 81 % also needs upliftment.

Did Indian Muslims made the wrong choice by choosing to live in India, where they don't have to declare their Prophet an imposter to get passport, or any identification card, they don't have to live in constant fear of being attacked by Muslim brothers ?

Don't people realize that Indian Army with Hindus and Sikhs as majority protect all INDIANS not only Hindus but also Muslims.

Why people are hell bent to prove that their existence is defined by the relative comparison with Indian Muslims and urge us to reply this way.

Alas, if they have focused more on their own minorities than Indian minority, things would have been much good for them and they then could have a better case.



At the end, when they are going to stop seeing Indians through religious lenses. For them, no matter whatever the religion on an Indian is, he/she will remain an Indian, nothing more Nothing less.

 

[Sugarcane]

What do you want to know???

You are talking about two nation theory, So - i want to know, what do you know about it?