India’s aircraft carrier ambitions take a dive

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

The stupidity is astounding.

First set an unrealistic timeline

Second tell the media about it

Third revise it and then again tell the media about it and call it delay.

Its not even delay, just horrible stakeholder management, project management and PR.

I'm beginning to think these guys LOVE the ridicule. No seriously. Can't believe how demoralising this must be for those putting their efforts and years into these projects. I mean how difficult it is to use some decent project management techniques?

This ain't the first time, in 1980s, India had plans to have 3 AC's operational by 2000s.

All that went in the mud with the 90s economic crisis.

 

[notsuperstitious]

This ain't the first time, in 1980s, India had plans to have 3 AC's operational by 2000s.

I can imagine what a sorry picture these babus must be cutting, desperate to talk to media, hoping to get publicity, making fantastic comments for that soundbyte all along keeping an eye on that next lucrative job and promotion.

A system that rewards all kinds of wrong traits is bound to produce such jokers.

BTW this was my comment in January on the obvious.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...-beefs-up-security-wellington-island-iac.html

Lets not set ourselves up for disappointment by creating unrealistic goals.

5 years is a realistic goal. If we do it early, we can celebrate. Some of our babus are silly, better project management will help.

 

[BRICS]

You are wrong buddy , we liberated Bangladesh , training many countries army , annexing ST,Sikkim,Goa,Kashmir valley... Aren't they actions ?
Btw see yourself first in mirror , your country(not the flag you show) cant even think of talking and you point others that they talk ? Huh

Definition of annexing:-
Add (territory) to one's own territory by appropriation

Definition of appropriation:-
The action of taking something for one's own use, typically without the owner's permission.

You are not painting a healthy picture for mera bharat mahan!

And I mean India talks a lot about about things such as building infrastructure and defence equipment, tonnes of articles claiming India is going to do this, India is going to do that, blah, blah, blah, in reality very little materializes, at best things are delayed by years if not decades. This is the Indian way and to be frank, it is an embarrassment.

 

[KRAIT]

I think w need to start a thread about technical milestone in every field, of India...to educate people like these.......

Rome wasn't built in a day...........

 

[xataxsata]

1. Delay is bad but when u do something for first time it takes time.

2. Every country which have made aircraft carrier have taken the delay.

3. We are not making here cheap floating junks by imitating or stealing.

4. Delay is also due to the fact its a govt. owned company and it takes red tape, babugiri and lots of approvals and time in moving files then making it actually.

5. The shipyard was going under modernization and being upgraded to the modular shipbuilding is also a culprit.

6. Then there is problem of mismanagement, lack of coordination and lack of established supply chain.

7. And last but not the least.........lack of proper time bound answer ability.

 

[RISING SUN]

If I'm not wrong it took 9+ years to build the 28,000 tonne HMS Hermes/INS VIRAAT and the 65,000 tonne Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers laid down in 2008/9 will only be ready in 2018/21 respectively. Of course this is not the same but what I'm trying to say is building and ACC is one of the hardest and most complex projects any navy can undertake and of course the 1st one is always going to be the hardest but the incredible amount of information and knowledge collected by Indian shipyards will not go to waste and will only see Indian warships construction in good steed in the future especially future indigenous ACCs. We can certainly expect IAC-2 and subsequent ACCs to be built faster and be more capable.

What are you smoking buddy these days? Must be strong stuff. For hiding their failure you are going down to such a level.
1-
Queen ELIZABETH CLASS July 2009 is the start date of 1st carrier. 2016 is target not some 2018/21. 2nd ship 2018. The vessels will displace about 65,000 metric tons (64,000 long tons), be 280 metres (920 ft) long and have a tailored air group of up to forty aircraft. They will be the largest warships ever to be constructed for the Royal Navy. Get your facts clear buddy.
2-
INS VIRAAT Laid down-21 June 1944, LAUNCH date 16 February 1953,completed and commissioned in 1959.Construction was suspended in 1945 but work was resumed in 1952 to clear the slipway and the hull was launched on 16 February 1953. The vessel remained unfinished until 1957, when she entered service on 18 November 1959 as HMS Hermes after extensive modifications which included installation of a massive Type 984 'searchlight' 3D radar.
3-
Vikrant class aircraft carrier keel was laid in 28 February 2009,In commission-no sooner than 2017.
Now what do you say buddy?
In your opinion buddy since how many years MDL is building warships? As per your contention they should build at faster pace,but is the result showing any speed. I don't think so. They are sitting and eating our money. They are afraid of competition & can only make tall claims. Sorry to burst your myth but this is real. I have visited Mumbai harbor(OK),seen shipyard condition(my worst nightmare),warships(good), really pathetic. Only thing you will find there is shiny offices of babu and MDL executives. They block each & every step towards more domestic decentralization & want major chunk of resources without any accountability. Results speak more than talk & PPTs.

 

[jha]

They have jeopardised IAC-II. Navy might have a closer look now on QE-Class carrier...

 

[RISING SUN]

1. Delay is bad but when u do something for first time it takes time.

2. Every country which have made aircraft carrier have taken the delay.

3. We are not making here cheap floating junks by imitating or stealing.

4. Delay is also due to the fact its a govt. owned company and it takes red tape, babugiri and lots of approvals and time in moving files then making it actually.

5. The shipyard was going under modernization and being upgraded to the modular shipbuilding is also a culprit.

6. Then there is problem of mismanagement, lack of coordination and lack of established supply chain.

7. And last but not the least.........lack of proper time bound answer ability.

1st & 2nd point point. What was last time when a country built its first carrier?How much time did they take? Any idea.Let me explain to you.
Giuseppe Garibaldi (551) is an Italian aircraft carrier, the first through deck aviation ship ever built for the Italian Navy, and the first Italian ship built to operate fixed wing aircraft.Laid down-26 March 1981,Launched-11 June 1983,Commissioned-30 September 1985. Oh my GOD! How could they commission it within 5-6 year when our friend is saying it is not possible.Surely they would have outsourced it to Indian government shipyards(just for your peace buddy).

Principe de Asturias Laid down-8 October 1979,Launched-22 May 1982,Commissioned-30 May 1988.
Goddamn. How could they build way faster than Indian Government shipyards? Evil Europeans.

3rd point-
You are talking about junk buddy. What will be the iron & steel doing in these 10 to 15 years? Because they have floated it even it can't swim on its own? Hmm, Rusting ,paint job I guess. In this work MDL is specifically master.

4th point-
Now you are on line. Perfect. No need to worry.

5th point-
You always listen to them. Each project & there is extensive modernization. Enough of this crap. This tactics is used to extract more money & buy time. Nothing new.

6th & 7th point- You nailed the problem buddy. Receive my respect.

They have jeopardised IAC-II. Navy might have a closer look now on QE-Class carrier...

If they will build it, consider it to complete after 2025 and around 2030.

I think w need to start a thread about technical milestone in every field, of India...to educate people like these.......

Rome wasn't built in a day...........

So as per you 60 years are not enough to build 1 single frigate,destroyer or any other ship without any delay, let alone AC. A government has to protect a infant industry. But there is a question whether a child want grow up or only want to be infant to avoid accountability & responsibility. Pardon me friend but if this is our approach for development,we are,will be last in race of learning,operating its functions. Peace be with you my friend.

 

[SinoChallenger]

Why are so many indians disappointed with reality? Just keep deluding yourselves about super-duper india military power to feel better about being indian.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/195260-india-have-hypersonic-brahmos-ii-five-years.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...s-light-combat-aircraft-lca-tejas-mk-3-a.html

 

[RISING SUN]

Why are so many indians disappointed with reality? Just keep deluding yourselves about super-duper india military power to feel better about being indian.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/195260-india-have-hypersonic-brahmos-ii-five-years.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...s-light-combat-aircraft-lca-tejas-mk-3-a.html

What is so much fascinating according to you that you keep jumping whenever Indian have constructive talk. We are vocal against failure of ours not like you dumb-bag. Now bug off you troll.

Why are so many indians disappointed with reality? Just keep deluding yourselves about super-duper india military power to feel better about being indian.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/195260-india-have-hypersonic-brahmos-ii-five-years.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...s-light-combat-aircraft-lca-tejas-mk-3-a.html

For you only.
Indian Navy eyes expansion with three more Russian-made Krivak IV class frigates
Indian Navy's quest to emerge as a global and regional sea power will receive a major boost with New Delhi and Moscow in negotiations to purchase three additional frigates from Russia.
Military partnership has been the cornerstone of Indo-Russian ties and the Indian Navy has been using Russian-made frigates. It has been learnt that India and Russia have already held preliminary discussions for the three additional frigates that the navy would purchase from Moscow. The talks on this issue will gain momentum when Russian deputy prime minister Dmitry Rogozin arrives in Delhi on Tuesday with a jumbo delegation.

"Discussions are at a preliminary stage and it will get concretised in the coming days," said an official speaking on condition of anonymity, refusing to divulge details of the type of frigate and its features at this stage of negotiations.

However, it is understood that these frigates could belong to Krivak IV class of Russia. A Krivak IV class frigate is equipped with a 100-mm gun, a Shtil medium-range air defence system, Club-N supersonic antiship missiles, two Kashtan point defence systems, two twin 533-mm torpedo launchers, and an anti-submarine warfare helicopter.

Russia, it is understood, made the offer to supply three additional frigates. India, which is constructing seven indigenous frigates at Mumbai and Kolkata, is mulling over the proposal.

The issue was discussed last April when the two sides agreed on a roadmap of doables in several areas of military cooperation. This roadmap would be deliberated in details between Rogozin and his Indian interlocutors, officials hinted. His delegation includes Alexander V. Fomin, director of federal service for military and technical cooperation and several key Russian defence industry bosses. The discussions would also focus on supply of spare parts for Russian supplied aircraft to the Indian Air Force (IAF), development of Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft and much delayed aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov.

This will be Rogozin's, a close aide of President Vladimir Putin, maiden visit to India. Rogozin who is the co-chairman of Russian-Indian Intergovernmental Commission on military-technical, trade, economic, scientific and cultural cooperation will hold talks with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, external affairs minister S.M. Krishna and defence minister A.K. Antony besides commerce and industry minister Anand Sharma. Russia is taking part in 20 tenders in India, with which it has a military-technical cooperation agreement until 2020.

Last month India received - INS Teg - the first of three the Stealth Talwar frigates it ordered from Russia six years ago. The 3,970 tonne P-17 project Talwar's are 124.5 meter (386 feet) long, carry 24 anti-aircraft and eight anti-ship missiles, four torpedo tubes, as well as a 100mm gun, short range antimissile guns, a helicopter, and anti-submarine weapons (depth charges and missiles).

The ship has a complete set of electronics gear. The crew strength is 180. All of the Talwars are being equipped with eight BrahMos anti-ship missile (range of 290 km) each. The Talwar is a modified version of the Russian Krivak III class.

But hey you don't worry,we will spare you because we don't want the sin of deleting a whole brand new species from world map.
So Sleep tightly.

 

[atulya]

why shame , we are developing nation and we are ahead than some powerfull nation like australia,canada ,spain,turkey,brazil,mexico, may be germany,kazakhastan,ukrain,........... and yes we will develop, we will buy, we will seek help but we will make it at all the cost. ATLEAST WE ARE NOT COPYING.................... we can,t become america or a develop natiOn in 5 or 10 years,,,,,,,,

 

[Dash]

I dont understand what we guys are fighting here for???

Until yesterday everything was fine, until sosme newspaper reported that IAC is delayed and we have a serious problem where US has 6 ACs in India and China "going" to float one....

BIG DEAL

I dont see why we wwill fight over IAC as everything is going smooth, If china will float Varyag then we are also floating Viks...US ? I dont see them as a real threat.

 

[帅的一匹]

why shame , we are developing nation and we are ahead than some powerfull nation like australia,canada ,spain,turkey,brazil,mexico, may be germany,kazakhastan,ukrain,........... and yes we will develop, we will buy, we will seek help but we will make it at all the cost. ATLEAST WE ARE NOT COPYING.................... we can,t become america or a develop natiOn in 5 or 10 years,,,,,,,,

You are not copying cause you don't know how to copy.

 

[RISING SUN]

We are using modular approach which I already mentioned to build ACC. ToT from scorpene will result in fast construction. CSL already has its hands full.

Solution is, developing more shipyard and developing them like we are making naval stations, better requirement analysis, well coordinated effort, constant progress report put under scanner and avoid loss of know how if the current demands are met.

Do you know why Airbus 380 got delayed by 6 months, taking away the lead it had on Boeing Dreamliner. The part made in France and in Germany, didn't fit together coz different softwares were used. One of Airbus senior executive was fired for this, and Airbus had fear of bankruptcy due to delay in delivery to airlines, loosing customers to Boeing.

My point is, these things happen even at giant private companies like Booing, Airbus, one ofthe solution is private partners. I completely agree with joint ventures, but for limited time period. Or giving entire project to private players.

They are generating excuses one by one and you are believing them. Why did they not followed up suppliers? Who was stopping them. It is just like Commonwealth games where Kalmadi & company looted our money & few of us supported them relentlessly by saying that we have to save the nation's pride. Filling sick,really.
CSL has its hand full,MDL has its hands full. Still they are not allowing the private sector. When any Government company can change the view the public servant,that's horrible & same thing is happening right now.

 

[Speeder 2]

What a surprise....NO!


Has any Indian shipbuilding company, public or private, has built an “indigenous” ship, military or civilian, on it own ( counting also those with all the key equipments imported), that is at the similar class or much less, say more than 20,000 tons that is in active service, EVER?

That it has balls and gals to build a 40,000 full-blown IAC to start with is beyond any sane mind… AND funnier, has 65,000 tons IAC II ready in design… what’s the next? You shall see soon that India decides to skip 65,000 tons and to build more advanced 90,000 nuclear one instead…

Typically when it can’t even build a problem-free entry level I , it “fearlessly” (the dumb don’t understand the concept of fear anyway) and “proudly” (the illiterate can’t comprehend why they say sciences are difficult) moves into building more advanced level II and level III instead… the list is endless anywhere you look in Indian defence industry underpinned by ISRO, HAL and DRTROLL: Aryun, LCA, artillery , bullet, Insas, indoor pumping, etc etc you name it… A so very typical Indian (only) way: brag to sprint before it can actually crawl.