India ready to give Pakistan ‘benefit of the doubt’: Salman Khurshid

[PlanetWarrior]

What does 6 million Jews have to do with either Pakistan or India ?? Now I'm getting lost

 

[Nassr]

Indeed. And from my little knowledge of international relations, I would say that Pakistan does hold a wider sphere when it comes to the US's national interests as compared to India. India doesn't sway to the demands of the USA. India pursues a more independent foreign policy (BRICS etc) without giving much thought to Uncle Sam. The list is endless. Pakistan on the other hand is little more than a satellite state of the USA. A fair demonstration of this is the blessing given to the USA by the establishment to conduct drone strikes in its territories thus handing over its sovereignty to the hands of the Pentagon. If the Indian establishment ever tried something as brazen as that , you can be rest assured that India will fragment into multiple states. Now wouldn't that demonstrate which nation is closer to the USA when it comes to Uncle Sam's national interests ?

Like I said before, we are discussing India here and not the US. Please open a separate thread on US and we can discuss Pak-US relations contextually. Pursuing an independent foreign policy is also based on give and take. It does not mean that Indian can ignore America totally or other countries of significance, and neither can Pakistan. Even the American ability to unilaterally command subservience has diminished considerably. But the fact remains that currently India, being surrounded by two powerful nuclear powers on the continent and is barely able to act as a second fiddle to more powerful foreign navies in the Indian Ocean is a reality that can not be denied.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Like I said before, we are discussing India here and not the US. Please open a separate thread on US and we can discuss Pak-US relations contextually. PInursuing an independent foreign policy is also based on give and take. It does not mean that Indian can ignore America totally or other countries of significance, and neither can Pakistan. Even the American ability to unilaterally command subservience has diminished considerably. But the fact remains that currently India, being surrounded by two powerful nuclear powers on the continent and is barely able to act as a second fiddle to more powerful foreign navies in the Indian Ocean is a reality that can not be denied.

Indeed and I was discussing India's sway over USA's foreign policy vis' a vis' Pakistan's sway. Perhaps you lost the sequence of my response to your earlier post wherein you claimed that India runs to the USA on issues affecting the region since India holds a dominant position with the USA?

 

[INDIC]

Its always mutual hence that's the point. If India wants to continue closing its eyes then you must cut off all ties officially.

You need favor from Afghanistan to expand your trade with Central Asia and with the further operation of Gwadar, your need to get further Afghan favor will increase. India don't need to give Pakistan any concession on such trade.

Pakistan’s perishable goods export to Central Asia to get a boost

Afghanistan Stops Pakistan Trucks at Torkham Border

 

[priti]

Its unfortunate that your attitude towards your own Muslims is also based on the above assumption that too about happening hundreds of years back 



Every civilized country turn to talks.

anyway what do you see if Modi/BJP come to power, they will do ?

I never said anything against our own muslims. did you hear me say that?

 

[Chronos]

No i won't raise my blood pressure over something like this i want all human beings living in both the countries to live in peace if some people find this attitude a weakness and a green light to sling mud then they are free to think as they like. I do appreciate you're stance by the way its very refreshing.

I know I said I won't post here. But I must break my vow to show my appreciation for this post.

Thank you =)

 

[Spring Onion]

She's a veteran here.And i do believe in the "survival of fittest theory".
She has survived in this shark infested waters for long.

But now back to topic ....i want her to give evidence to support her statement.
Otherwise we know who will have to gulp down their words.

I hate to spare time when I am busy but as I don't run away so have to. here read carefully posting just one many are there you can dig.


The lines of control

Karan Thapar
January 19, 2013

The beheading of an Indian soldier on the LoC and the mutilation of another were undoubtedly unacceptable and unpardonable. This was barbaric behaviour. The anger and revulsion it’s provoked is understandable. There’s no denying that. However, there’s one question we need to ask but mainly failed to raise. Have we ever been guilty of similar behaviour ourselves?
From what I can tell the answer seems to be yes. On the 10th, The Hindu reported that last year, during a skirmish at Karnah, “Indian Special Forces responded by attacking a Pakistani forward post, killing several soldiers, and by the account of one military official which The Hindu could not corroborate independently, beheaded two.”
What makes this claim credible is that it’s reported by military sources who not only ought to know but would not denigrate the reputation of Indian soldiers.

Alas, there’s more evidence. This time from eye-witnesses.

In her ‘Confessions of a War Reporter’, published in June 2001 by Himal, a well-known Nepalese magazine, Barkha Dutt recounted how she witnessed a decapitated Pakistani soldier’s head at Kargil. This is what she wrote: “I had to look three times to make sure I was seeing right … “Look again,” said the army colonel, in a tone that betrayed suppressed excitement. This time, I finally saw. It was a head, the disembodied face of a slain soldier nailed onto a tree. “The boys got it as a gift for the brigade,” said the colonel, softly, but proudly.”
Harinder Baweja, the editor (Investigation) of this paper, witnessed something similar. This is the account from her book A Soldier’s Diary, Kargil — The Inside Story: “The experiences of 18 Garhwal show another side of the war … one of them took out his knife and slit the head of a Pakistani soldier in one stroke. The head was sent to Brigade Headquarters at Drass and pinned to a tree trunk … the enemy head, a grisly trophy, became an exhibition piece. Major General Puri came down from Mughalpura to see it. Other officers dropped in to Brigade Headquarters to take a look. So did some journalists … it was there pinned on the tree for anyone who could bear to look at it.”
So is this proof that Indian soldiers, both in the recent past and during Kargil, have done to Pakistanis what they did to our jawans last week? The Hindu report is clearly not proof.

On the other hand, what Barkha and Harinder saw seems like it. They are eye-witnesses. They’re highly regarded journalists. They have a reputation for telling the truth. More importantly, they have no reason to lie.
However, my intention is not to establish moral equivalence between Indian and Pakistani soldiers, although some might come to that conclusion. It’s to ask why did the media, other than The Hindu, not point this out? You can’t argue it was irrelevant information. More importantly, it would have put a different complexion on the decapitation of our soldiers. And, certainly, it would have tempered the furious discussions on television.
As journalists we owe our audience not just the truth but both sides of it when that’s pertinent. To not be evenhanded is to leave them half-informed.
In this instance, we whipped up passions when we should have helped audiences realise the LoC is a tough place, where brutal actions often happen and both sides retaliate in equally gruesome ways.

When tempers cool and time lends perspective, our audience won’t forgive us for half-truths.

The lines of control - Hindustan Times

 

[GURU DUTT]

I hate to spare time when I am busy but as I don't run away so have to. here read carefully posting just one many are there you can dig.


The lines of control

Karan Thapar
January 19, 2013

The beheading of an Indian soldier on the LoC and the mutilation of another were undoubtedly unacceptable and unpardonable. This was barbaric behaviour. The anger and revulsion it’s provoked is understandable. There’s no denying that. However, there’s one question we need to ask but mainly failed to raise. Have we ever been guilty of similar behaviour ourselves?
From what I can tell the answer seems to be yes. On the 10th, The Hindu reported that last year, during a skirmish at Karnah, “Indian Special Forces responded by attacking a Pakistani forward post, killing several soldiers, and by the account of one military official which The Hindu could not corroborate independently, beheaded two.”
What makes this claim credible is that it’s reported by military sources who not only ought to know but would not denigrate the reputation of Indian soldiers.

Alas, there’s more evidence. This time from eye-witnesses.

In her ‘Confessions of a War Reporter’, published in June 2001 by Himal, a well-known Nepalese magazine, Barkha Dutt recounted how she witnessed a decapitated Pakistani soldier’s head at Kargil. This is what she wrote: “I had to look three times to make sure I was seeing right … “Look again,” said the army colonel, in a tone that betrayed suppressed excitement. This time, I finally saw. It was a head, the disembodied face of a slain soldier nailed onto a tree. “The boys got it as a gift for the brigade,” said the colonel, softly, but proudly.”
Harinder Baweja, the editor (Investigation) of this paper, witnessed something similar. This is the account from her book A Soldier’s Diary, Kargil — The Inside Story: “The experiences of 18 Garhwal show another side of the war … one of them took out his knife and slit the head of a Pakistani soldier in one stroke. The head was sent to Brigade Headquarters at Drass and pinned to a tree trunk … the enemy head, a grisly trophy, became an exhibition piece. Major General Puri came down from Mughalpura to see it. Other officers dropped in to Brigade Headquarters to take a look. So did some journalists … it was there pinned on the tree for anyone who could bear to look at it.”
So is this proof that Indian soldiers, both in the recent past and during Kargil, have done to Pakistanis what they did to our jawans last week? The Hindu report is clearly not proof.

On the other hand, what Barkha and Harinder saw seems like it. They are eye-witnesses. They’re highly regarded journalists. They have a reputation for telling the truth. More importantly, they have no reason to lie.
However, my intention is not to establish moral equivalence between Indian and Pakistani soldiers, although some might come to that conclusion. It’s to ask why did the media, other than The Hindu, not point this out? You can’t argue it was irrelevant information. More importantly, it would have put a different complexion on the decapitation of our soldiers. And, certainly, it would have tempered the furious discussions on television.
As journalists we owe our audience not just the truth but both sides of it when that’s pertinent. To not be evenhanded is to leave them half-informed.
In this instance, we whipped up passions when we should have helped audiences realise the LoC is a tough place, where brutal actions often happen and both sides retaliate in equally gruesome ways.

When tempers cool and time lends perspective, our audience won’t forgive us for half-truths.

The lines of control - Hindustan Times

well jana ji look at it like this days of meak and soft hearted hindus are gone we will repay you in the same way and kill your soldiers in tha same way you try to do with us ..no opology - no remose - no regerets....period

now if you think or your generals think that eak/timid hindus/banyas (as they often call indians) wont retaliate well they saw what we did to them in kargil and killed all the retreating pakistani soldiers /mujahiddin like rats

we will do the same treatment with pakitani faujies/jasoos/stooges as they did to captain kalia and his patrol group

 

[Levina]

@Spring Onion

Springs

Alas....you've actually wasted your time.
I was not talking about all the beheadings that were done from 1947 onwards.There have been many such incidents in our 66 yrs of history.
But Pak Army has been regularly involved in CEASEFIRE VIOLATIONS.I hope you understand the difference.

Now
1) Karan thapar's Statement: Where's the source??? Karan Thapar has only quoted a statement.What are the military sources???show me that.

2) And lets not even talk about Kargil war.
The war began after Lt Saurabh kalia (and his team) was captured and tortured over a month.
And his mutilated body( burnt cigarette marks ,with body parts missing) was sent back to India.
And you know how old was he???
Just 23.
And this link will confirm it
Saurabh Kalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But atleast you've accepted those men in Kargil were Pak soldiers.
Let me remind you,after Kargil war was over PAK Army didnt even take back the dead bodies of its soldiers.


And BARKHA DUTT???highly regarded journalist??

I wish she was not covering KARGIL war.Because the day after she interviewed Capt.Vikram Batra on TV from kargil,he was killed.
She is in involved any many high profile crimes.I would have pasted some of the audio tapes of how she goes about negotiating between 2 parties during elections.But unfortunately those tapes are not available on net now.They got deleted.

So there.....the sources you've quoted are neither reliable nor original.
Next time dont waste your time posting sources just for the sake of winning a debate.

 

[Spring Onion]

well jana ji look at it like this days of meak and soft hearted hindus are gone we will repay you in the same way and kill your soldiers in tha same way you try to do with us ..no opology - no remose - no regerets....period

now if you think or your generals think that eak/timid hindus/banyas (as they often call indians) wont retaliate well they saw what we did to them in kargil and killed all the retreating pakistani soldiers /mujahiddin like rats

we will do the same treatment with pakitani faujies/jasoos/stooges as they did to captain kalia and his patrol group

You did it first so no need to cry foul.

sarthak was talking about everything is fair in war

 

[SarthakGanguly]

@Spring Onion

Springs

Alas....you've actually wasted your time.
I was not talking about all the beheadings that were done from 1947 onwards.There have been many such incidents in our 66 yrs of history.
But Pak Army has regularly involved in CEASEFIRE VIOLATIONS.I hope you understand the difference.

Now
1) Karan thapar's Statement: Where's the source??? Karan Thapar has only quoted a statement.What are the military sources???show me that.

2) And lets not even talk about Kargil war.
The war began after 2nd Lt Saurabh kalia (and his team) was captured and tortured over a month.
And his mutilated body( burnt cigarette marks with body parts missing) was sent back to India.
And you know how old was he???
Just 23.
And this link will confirm it
Saurabh Kalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But atleast you've accepted those men in Kargil were Pak soldiers.
Let me remind you,after Kargil war was over PAK Army didnt even take back the dead bodies of its soldiers.


And BARKHA DUTT???

I wish she was not covering KARGIL war.Because the day after she interviewed Capt.Vikram Batra on TV from kargil,he was killed.
She is in involved any many high profile crimes.
So there.....the sources you've quoted are neither reliable nor original.
Next time dont waste your time posting sources just for the sake of winning a debate.

Barkha also reported about the unit movements live on TV. This many guns are moving from this place to that place, hello sir, which unit, how do you feel...etc etc question were asked. It is suprising she was not arrested. Indian Armed forces should be trained in not answering lowlifes, especially in combat.

Besides, the likes of Barkha see a lot. Khurshid saw Madamji cry, someone heard safed dari etc, they just don't see the reality - that's all.

@levina - I can see you got the first dose of Onion's trolling  

You did it first so no need to cry foul.

sarthak was talking about everything is fair in war

Yeah and ceasefire is war? Genius.

 

[Spring Onion]

@Spring Onion

Springs

Alas....you've actually wasted your time.
I was not talking about all the beheadings that were done from 1947 onwards.There have been many such incidents in our 66 yrs of history.
But Pak Army has been regularly involved in CEASEFIRE VIOLATIONS.I hope you understand the difference.

read up more LoC violations have been taking place at both sides. The recent started by illegal construction by Indian army in violation of ceasefire .

Now
1) Karan thapar's Statement: Where's the source??? Karan Thapar has only quoted a statement.What are the military sources???show me that.

2) And lets not even talk about Kargil war.
The war began after Lt Saurabh kalia (and his team) was captured and tortured over a month.
And his mutilated body( burnt cigarette marks ,with body parts missing) was sent back to India.
And you know how old was he???
Just 23.
And this link will confirm it
Saurabh Kalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So now Karan thapar and Burkha dutt have become Pakistani agents?

Yeh he quoted the sources read again you missed the names of Indian army officers.

But atleast you've accepted those men in Kargil were Pak soldiers.
Let me remind you,after Kargil war was over PAK Army didnt even take back the dead bodies of its soldiers.

We know our count so we took that many the rest can be buried in their own land across LoC.


And BARKHA DUTT???

I wish she was not covering KARGIL war.Because the day after she interviewed Capt.Vikram Batra on TV from kargil,he was killed.
She is in involved any many high profile crimes.


So there.....the sources you've quoted are neither reliable nor original.
Next time dont waste your time posting sources just for the sake of winning a debate.

read your own comment sans any logical back up.

refute Burkha Dutt and Karan Thapar and The Hindu newspaper. If you can otherwise your words are typical whining

 

[Indian-Lion]

@Spring Onion

Springs

Alas....you've actually wasted your time.
I was not talking about all the beheadings that were done from 1947 onwards.There have been many such incidents in our 66 yrs of history.
But Pak Army has regularly involved in CEASEFIRE VIOLATIONS.I hope you understand the difference.

Now
1) Karan thapar's Statement: Where's the source??? Karan Thapar has only quoted a statement.What are the military sources???show me that.

2) And lets not even talk about Kargil war.
The war began after 2nd Lt Saurabh kalia (and his team) was captured and tortured over a month.
And his mutilated body( burnt cigarette marks with body parts missing) was sent back to India.
And you know how old was he???
Just 23.
And this link will confirm it
Saurabh Kalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But atleast you've accepted those men in Kargil were Pak soldiers.
Let me remind you,after Kargil war was over PAK Army didnt even take back the dead bodies of its soldiers.


And BARKHA DUTT???

I wish she was not covering KARGIL war.Because the day after she interviewed Capt.Vikram Batra on TV from kargil,he was killed.
She is in involved any many high profile crimes.
So there.....the sources you've quoted are neither reliable nor original.
Next time dont waste your time posting sources just for the sake of winning a debate.

posting video [EXTREME GRAPHICS] , ignore the crap *** gay islam song in beginning

[DELETED]

 

[GURU DUTT]

You did it first so no need to cry foul.

sarthak was talking about everything is fair in war

no jana ji your army started it beheadding soldiers is considered a relegeous crime in hindus we even perform last rights of enemy soldiers with full honour defacing and degrading beheading dead is not owr culture but is a part of muslim culture where your invaders used to make minarets of heads of soldiers of defeated armies and took the title of "ghazi"

and it was your army who pushed afriee criminals into kashmir in 1948 after which the raja conceded to india had your army generals being a little patient you would have got kashmir but thats history now

and every one knows what and how your army acrried owt massacers / geonocides & rapes in east bengal/bangladesh in 1971 in name of operation search light

and you talk about morals

 

[Spring Onion]

Barkha also reported about the unit movements live on TV. This many guns are moving from this place to that place, hello sir, which unit, how do you feel...etc etc question were asked. It is suprising she was not arrested. Indian Armed forces should be trained in not answering lowlifes, especially in combat.

Besides, the likes of Barkha see a lot. Khurshid saw Madamji cry, someone heard safed dari etc, they just don't see the reality - that's all.

@levina - I can see you got the first dose of Onion's trolling  

Yeah and ceasefire is war? Genius.

what was there of trolling ?

Read your words you Indians are just sounding frustrated . nothing but resorting to personal attacks.

anyway Skirmishes are NOT war. You were talking about beheading of Pakistani soldiers by Indian army as a normal thing during war.