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India poised to buy Patriot missile

Ruag

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India eyes 'Patriot missile'

India could be poised to sign a multi billion dollar arms deal with the United States to purchase patriot missiles. Before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's meeting with US President Barack Obama, the Indian Army has requested the Americans for a briefing of the Patriot-3 Anti-Missile System.

The briefings are likely early next year after which demonstrations could follow. The Patriot 3 anti-missile system is a guided missile system designed to detect, target and hit incoming missiles. It was initially used in the first gulf war and has subsequently been fine tuned. The C-17 military transport aircraft is used for rapid strategic airlift of troops and cargo. It has the ability to rapidly deploy a combat unit to a potential battle area and sustain it with on-going supplies.

The Patriot missile system has been used extensively in the past in the Gulf war in 1991 as well as in the Iraqi war.

The sytem includes the missiles themselves, the missile launcher, which holds, transports, aims and launches the missiles and a radar antenna to detect incoming missiles.

Meanwhile the Indian Air Force has already informed the Defence Ministry that it wants ten C-17 military transport aircraft. The aircraft was on show during the India-US training exercises in Agra last month.

India eyes 'Patriot missile'- TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

Some images of PAC-3 -


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So... India's air defence systems will include Akash SAM, SPYDER, Barak-8, AAD/PAD and hopefully... PAC-3.
 
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why we are going for PAC-3 if we sign the agreement it will come at 3-4 yr after at that time we r ready for production our PAD & AAD. So my Q is this why we buy this new system if we need somthing then its better to go for S-400
 
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india already has plans to buy s400 and russia has also offered it to india may be the deal will happen this year or next year
 
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So... India's air defence systems will include Akash SAM, SPYDER, Barak-8, AAD/PAD and hopefully... PAC-3.

India already has Got S-300 If i m not wrong
A very potent list of Air Defence systems :tup:
 
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After the first Gulf war, I had a chance to visit Israel where I saw significant damage caused by primitive SCUDs fired by Saddam. Every one told me that the much praised Patriots (were probably older versions) were abysmal failures in intercepting the incoming SCUDs.
 
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After the first Gulf war, I had a chance to visit Israel where I saw significant damage caused by primitive SCUDs fired by Saddam. Every one told me that the much praised Patriots (were probably older versions) were abysmal failures in intercepting the incoming SCUDs.

Your right not all of the Scuds could be intercepted,but that was 1990 its nearly 2 decades.The techonology has evolved massively and PAC 3 today is a demonstration of latest techonolgy been flaunted by the US like F22 Raptor unlike the one in 1990. Cheers mate.
 
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Your right not all of the Scuds could be intercepted,but that was 1990 its nearly 2 decades.The techonology has evolved massively and PAC 3 today is a demonstration of latest techonolgy been flaunted by the US like F22 Raptor unlike the one in 1990. Cheers mate.

The US also "flaunted" Patriots and exaggerated their success in 1990s, contrary to the reality on the ground that I learned in Israel.
The arms merchants routinely hype their wares.

Haq's Musings: India's Missile Shield and Israel Envy Threaten Pakistan
 
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As per my understanding AAD is considered to be better than PAC-3...Do we really need to go for a system which is inferior to a system developed by us??? If i am not wrong even if we close the deal we are not going to get this system before 2014-2015..same time frame when our own defence system is expected to be complete??? Also does that mean S-400 is out of picture or these two systems along with our own will complement each other??

AAD, in fact, will be slightly better than PAC-3 in terms of range and altitude of interception," said DRDO chief controller, R&D, V K Saraswat.
 
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Your AAD better than PAC-3 ???

i cant think of a better one than this.

And your reason for saying that??? I am talking from India perspective and as per our threat perception AAD is better than PAC-3...Also this is not something that i have just dreamt of...this is what our DRDO chief controller say and i will believe him than your sarcasm...
 
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As per my understanding AAD is considered to be better than PAC-3...Do we really need to go for a system which is inferior to a system developed by us??? If i am not wrong even if we close the deal we are not going to get this system before 2014-2015..same time frame when our own defence system is expected to be complete??? Also does that mean S-400 is out of picture or these two systems along with our own will complement each other??

AAD, in fact, will be slightly better than PAC-3 in terms of range and altitude of interception," said DRDO chief controller, R&D, V K Saraswat.

PAC-3 is a tried and tested system. AAD and PAD are still a few years from deployment, so a few missile batteries won't be such a bad idea. I doubt it would take that long to deliver the system.

About the DRDO chief, he said it 'will be' and while that remains to be seen (I'm skeptical) even by his own words, it isn't yet. Our defense needs are immediate. I'm happy they're looking into the system now and not ten years from today, after the DRDO has let us down. Sorry if I sound cynical, but the DRDO really has to redeem itself.
 
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After the first Gulf war, I had a chance to visit Israel where I saw significant damage caused by primitive SCUDs fired by Saddam. Every one told me that the much praised Patriots (were probably older versions) were abysmal failures in intercepting the incoming SCUDs.
Looks like you and I have different perspectives on the Patriot system of Desert Storm.

First -- The system was not originally designed to be against ballistic missiles. Different methods of attacks required different means of defense. Target tracking and interceptor maneuvers depends on the different modes of intercept navigation, aka 'guidance laws', a few examples below...

Proportional navigation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Proportional navigation (PN) (Pro-Nav) is a guidance law used in some form or another by most homing air target missiles. It is based on the fact that two vehicles are on a collision course when their direct Line-of-Sight does not change direction. PN dictates that the missile velocity vector should rotate at a rate proportional to the rotation rate of the line of sight (Line-Of-Sight rate or LOS-rate), and in the same direction.

GBU-12 Paveway II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Paveway II laser guided bombs use what is known as "bang bang" guidance. This means the bomb's fins deflect fully, rather than proportionally when it is attempting to guide to the laser spot. For example, if it sees the laser spot and determines that it should make a change it deflects its fins until it has over-corrected and then it deflects back the opposite direction creating a sinusoidal type of flight path. This type of guidance may be less efficient at times.

Other derivatives are augmented PN, extended PN, and if you wish to delve further, give this book a try...

Amazon.com: Modern Navigation, Guidance, And Control Processing (9780135962305): Ching-Fang Lin: Books

I have seen better texts, but for the laymen, this one is 'just good enough' for interested readers to see there are more to these weapons than just hardware figures. Just like many sub-systems in radar detection, there are engineers who spent their entire professional careers doing nothing but working with these guidance laws and they retire to handsome boathouses in the Florida Keys, drinking and ogling girls all day long.

Second -- The Patriot system of Desert Storm was never meant for wide area defense. The system was supposed to defend vital and small areas, such as an electrical power station, at the expense of the city the station is working for, if necessary. Same for an air base, at the expense of nearby civilian enclaves, if necessary. That is the cruel calculus of war.

Finally -- There is no avoidance of ground damages. Everything returns to Earth. What does the word 'significant damage' really mean? Compare to what? To the actual warhead detonation? For the successful interceptions, and there were some, the system worked beyond expectations. The interceptor successfully homed in on a target whose behaviors were not part of its intercept algorithms. So when it was successful, what do you think the target's remains are going to do? Disappeared into another dimension? No...Those debris will fall to Earth and their velocity will inevitably create damages to human structures. The law of gravity rules.

The SCUD defense in Desert Storm was a political act, not a military one. In the cruel calculus of war, the Patriot system would not have been deployed to defend civilians. The SCUDs were too inaccurate when each missile's CEP were in the thousands of meters. But for the few successful intercepts, we learned there could be more to the system, from creating new guidance laws to improving the hardwares, that would create a new ballistic missile defense.
 
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PAC-3 is a tried and tested system. AAD and PAD are still a few years from deployment, so a few missile batteries won't be such a bad idea. I doubt it would take that long to deliver the system.

My reasoning of not going for PAC-3 was only about the time frame...I am all for a few batteries if they can be put in place in like year or two.
About the DRDO chief, he said it 'will be' and while that remains to be seen (I'm skeptical) even by his own words, it isn't yet. Our defense needs are immediate. I'm happy they're looking into the system now and not ten years from today, after the DRDO has let us down. Sorry if I sound cynical, but the DRDO really has to redeem itself.

No you are not being cynical...DRDO actually need to redeem itself...However as far as BMD system is concerned DRDO record is so far satisfactory....
 
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As per my understanding AAD is considered to be better than PAC-3...Do we really need to go for a system which is inferior to a system developed by us??? If i am not wrong even if we close the deal we are not going to get this system before 2014-2015..same time frame when our own defence system is expected to be complete??? Also does that mean S-400 is out of picture or these two systems along with our own will complement each other??

AAD, in fact, will be slightly better than PAC-3 in terms of range and altitude of interception," said DRDO chief controller, R&D, V K Saraswat.

I am not sure of Saraswat's statement. I think any credible person in the Indian establishment should only make superiority statements once the technology has been proved beyond any doubt. To make such proclamations at the very early stages or the onset, diminishes Mr. Saraswats claim. All said and done if the AAD really is better that PAC-3 then why is the army showing interest in the latter. Again, these reports have to give more details. Lets see what MMS is gonna get from the US during this trip. I am not comfortable with Obama, the man is making too many compromises world wide for a US President.
 
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