India-Pakistan through the Israel-Palestine Mirror

[Secur]

Yes. That situation requires keeping in mind the population density and other similar factors. The basic equation of the military discharging their duty remains valid.

Yes, targeting civilians intentionally is equal to discharging their duties. I see your logic!

The questions about where the rockets require intimate knowledge of the battleground. And I am applying the same standards of both militaries doing their sworn duty in both cases, fairly.

Wrong, you aren't applying the same standards, not even close. All you are doing is returning to Square One, every now and then.

 

[Kaniska]

Palestine is a world issue. Every media outlet is harping on that tune and every columnist looking to earn a penny or two is going to write on it. So essentially, if the support for Palestine gets more media coverage than the amount of donations to IDPs and the debates in parliament on civilian casualties, shall we judge the former as having much more relevance to Pakistanis?

And yes, you are right.. too generic. I should rephrase that to genocidal hatred for Pakistan.

You may be right to some extent about India...we are not perfect at what we have dreamt of...But one thing for sure...as nation...and as an individual i feel that the Islalmophobia that comes up in India is only result when some section of my citizen of my country feels their religion is more important for them than the nation....And you are right...we have tendencies of Islamopobia as we are the worst affected nation due to the Islamic militancy...But off late..the good part is that due to some kind of help from Pakistan's democratically elected GOV, Kashmir millitancy slowed down to good amount and Indian people started realizing that apart from Islamist anti nationalist, Naxal are the greatest threat to india rather than the Islamist..

So the perception will change based on the result on the ground...

 

[Kaniska]

I suppose with guided munitions available using saturation bombardment with unguided artillery shells is kosher then?



That seriously is the most twisted argument ever. Would you like to look at the arsenal of weapons available to Israel versus Pakistan?
And suddenly when required, the Indian narrative on ridiculing Pakistan's development of weapon systems turns on its head hypocritically when need to present their PoV?

Are you actually suggesting that Pakistan's organizations have better grip on the technologies as compared to IMI, IWI, Rafael ??

Please, when coming with a rebuttal .. atleast do better than that?

Delusion at its best...Can you please share a thought that why the newspaper of Pakistan provide more coverage for Gaza than Pakistan iissue....Do not just blame media that due to media limited coverage people are not sensitive..The real issue is people of Pakistan feels more as a Muslim then they think about Pakistan....( I donot mind if you prove me wrong)....And most intresting thing is people of Pakistan raise their voice when they are insulted or humiliated by Non Muslim entity...If some Muslim nation humilate them...you do not get same kind of emotion....That is why you may not get same empathy and noise in pakistan for Syria issue, Iraq issue and many other parts of the world where Muslims are killing more Muslims than Palestine issue..

So do not blame Media...media is just an mirror of people's mindset...If in Gaza war, Israel is replaced by a Muslim nation..no one in Pakistan will pay any attention to it...Classic case is Syria, Kurdistan movement and fighting in Afgansitan....

Again...do not just blame me...Beacuse i know that being an Indian, we are bad...in the eyes of Pakistan...But just a think about the realities of mindset of Pakistan islamist elements..

 

[Secur]

The best armies in the world cannot claim that excesses did not take place when they have gone to war, not one, but there is always a relative notion of the unintended and the deliberate.

The answer you are going to get will be a cocktail of "self defense" ,"rocket attacks" and "terror tunnels"-the key ingredients combined with some twisted logic of "doing their duty to the country as best as they can" and "civilian targeting to best achieve their goals". Shaken, not stirred. The whole rationality of more than half of the arguments is the same pro re nata (as the circumstances arise) allowing for heinous crimes, making the citizen's life hell, indiscriminate and deliberate killing, the resultant violation of International law and that of humanity. Ironic, really ironic!

Delusion at its best...Can you please share a thought that why the newspaper of Pakistan provide more coverage for Gaza than Pakistan iissue....Do not just blame media that due to media limited coverage people are not sensitive..

That isn't true and there is much less to be reported except for ISPR releases, now the operation is in full swing than earlier with the peace talks going on, where the media had a field day to report on all the participants of the talks, the statements and actions of various banned outfits and their leaders, the surgical strikes being carried out by PAF and the political and military atmosphere inside the country. See my point?

 

[VCheng]

Spot on..This is what i have put a question to PDF posters in similllar thread in Palestine conflict..then no one answered..The point is Pakistan sovernity is challenged every day by drones, TTP and Afgan nuts elements..and so many fringle islmaist groups...and intrestingly there is nothing as such emotional response comes up like this Palestine issue.

The strong emotions displayed often preclude a calm and rational discussion over this issue.

Yes, targeting civilians intentionally is equal to discharging their duties. I see your logic!

So you see the civilians casualties in FATA as being different? No matter how you spin what is being done, in the end, innocent civilians lie dead, no matter which Army you talk about.

 

[Secur]

So you see the civilians casualties in FATA as being different? No matter how you spin what is being done, in the end, innocent civilians lie dead, no matter which Army you talk about.

The extent, intentions, policies, practices and the results are all different. No wonder how only you are seeing the similarity between both conflicts in the whole thread, this is absurd logic of equating things and calling them one and same, because they might be equal in the basic sense, of being conflicts fought by nations.

 

[VCheng]

The extent, intentions, policies, practices and the results are all different. No wonder how only you are seeing the similarity between both conflicts in the whole thread, this is absurd logic of equating things and calling them one and same, because they might be equal in the basic sense, of being conflicts fought by nations.

In the basic sense, they are indeed equal. Once that is admitted, then the rest of the arguments fall into place as each military tries to do its duty as best as it can for the situation that each is responsible for, as best as it can. Thank you for agreeing with what I have said all along.

 

[Secur]

Once that is admitted, then the rest of the arguments fall into place as each military tries to do its duty as best as it can for the situation that each is responsible for, as best as it can.

Yes, everything is permitted and legitimate after then. Same Intl Laws and due processes can now go rest somewhere, peacefully. From intentional killings to indiscriminate bombings. From the destruction of schools to UN camps, from civilian infrastructure to beaches! I have explained to you about the practices of a particular military in detail, but as expected, you are back to Square One.

 

[KingMamba]

Lol at this clown @Contrarian

Perhaps at this time they do. There is less empathy for bombing a place where Pakistanis have suffered the most..say 40000 dead. Compared to a situation where the toll is a 100 to 2000 at this stage. Yet , there is much less exposure for the civillian deaths in FATA as compared to israel. So if the media is focusing on a single narrative of Gaza, people with access to media will focus on that. However, those who are aware of the situation such as for those where it is closer to home such as those in KP.. the protest on civillian casualties exist.

Your suggestion that the world focus less on Gaza and on its own problem is separated from human psyche.

As for the genocidal comment, your own post answers that. If my example of perception of Indians based on PDF is melodrama..then i suppose that all of India is melodramatic based on their idea of Pakistan.

First he says internet Indians are an accurate portrayal of Indians on the ground then backtracks one post later.

 

[VCheng]

Yes, everything is permitted and legitimate after then. Same Intl Laws and due processes can now go rest somewhere, peacefully. From intentional killings to indiscriminate bombings. From the destruction of schools to UN camps, from civilian infrastructure to beaches! I have explained to you about the practices of a particular military in detail, but as expected, you are back to Square One.

Square One is the basic equivalence of both militaries doing what they are supposed to do: protect their own citizens from indiscriminate attacks. There no getting around this, because this is their sworn duty.

 

[Secur]

Well I am out, I believe I have made my point. If you aren't interested in facts and the reality on ground but semantics, that really isn't my fault. Not interested in continuing any further to make detailed arguments, if I will be selectively quoted and replied with same arguments again and again, not to mention returning to Square One every now and then. Good day to you!

 

[Contrarian]

Lol at this clown


First he says internet Indians are an accurate portrayal of Indians on the ground then backtracks one post later.

Where did I backtrack?
I said Indians on PDF are a lead indicator of Indians.

 

[fatman17]

Shit happens?
If that is the crux of your argument then it stands on wafer thin lines. Shit happens does not mean direct bombing of hospitals, schools and shooting of children in the head. Especially when you have the assets and equipment available to avoid such casualties.

there is a huge difference between whats happening in FATA and GAZA. in FATA people were warned and given time to leave the area. if anyone didnt heed the govt's or military's advise then what can you do. in GAZA its pure 'genocide'. just like at the lebanese refugee camp 'shatilla' in 1982. israels history is replete with such incidents against the palestinians.

 

[Contrarian]

there is a huge difference between whats happening in FATA and GAZA. in FATA people were warned and given time to leave the area. if anyone didnt heed the govt's or military's advise then what can you do. in GAZA its pure 'genocide'. just like at the lebanese refugee camp 'shatilla' in 1982. israels history is replete with such incidents against the palestinians.

The Israelis also warned the Gazans before military operation commenced. If you fail to notice that then maybe you need to pay better attention.

 

[jarves]

Then they seem to mind if the other side gets back even to a small degree!

So true.