India-Pakistan through the Israel-Palestine Mirror

[SQ8]

You mean to say that the IDF can do more to prevent civilian casualties, but the Pakistan Army cannot? I would suggest that both sides can do more to reduce civilian casualties. My phrase "to the best of their abilities" was meant to refer to preventing indiscriminate targeting of their own civilians by others, because that is their duty.

Yes. The IDF has the ability to deliver munitions with much more precision as compared to the Pakistani military.

 

[oFFbEAT]

Yes. The IDF has the ability to deliver munitions with much more precision as compared to the Pakistani military.

Can you quantify that??......NO.....you just say that for the sake of argument.....
Can u prove exactly how much 'advanced' Israel is in this case, according to which what should be the ratios of civilian : terrorist killed in case of Israel and Pakistan.....and what the ratios are in reality??........

You can't, because, such comparisons cannot be quantified in the first place and secondly, Pakistani govt. does not reveal data about operation Zarb-e-Azb..........why??
We all know what the civilian casualty in Gaza is.......but no data about operation 'Zarb-e-Azb'.......you're lucky that the operation is being conducted within the borders of your own country where your Govt. has full control.........otherwise, there is no difference between Pakistani and Israeli approach.......
In your case, it's 'necessary evil', for others, they are the devil.......right??

In-fact, I would say Pakistan's ability to deliver munitions is much more precise than Israel's considering your experience in developing missiles and artillery and planes sourced from advanced countries including USA(from where Israel gets its weapons too).........

 

[acid rain]

Where are the Pakistani hawks heading with this?

taking HUT's call for support against Israel seriously, openly supporting hamas, hailing Hitler and preaching what he did as right, calling for anti Israel anti Jew groupings and rallies, and over all, displaying severe anti semitism traits.....I have no idea where is this leading to for Pakistan's sake.

India's position is clear - we are gradually becoming pro Israel , the only thing hindering is India's energy needs.

 

[Screambowl]

Similar way when army tries to kill a terror operative, it is possible that civilians in Kashmir give them cover.

 

[VCheng]

Yes. The IDF has the ability to deliver munitions with much more precision as compared to the Pakistani military.

And it is only fair to point out the population density of Gaza is much higher than that in FATA, so a higher accuracy is needed but may not succeed as much as is planned.

 

[SQ8]

And it is only fair to point out the population density of Gaza is much higher than that in FATA, so a higher accuracy is needed but may not succeed as much as is planned.

I suppose with guided munitions available using saturation bombardment with unguided artillery shells is kosher then?

Can you quantify that??......NO.....you just say that for the sake of argument.....
Can u prove exactly how much 'advanced' Israel is in this case, according to which what should be the ratios of civilian : terrorist killed in case of Israel and Pakistan.....and what the ratios are in reality??........

You can't, because, such comparisons cannot be quantified in the first place and secondly, Pakistani govt. does not reveal data about operation Zarb-e-Azb..........why??
We all know what the civilian casualty in Gaza is.......but no data about operation 'Zarb-e-Azb'.......you're lucky that the operation is being conducted within the borders of your own country where your Govt. has full control.........otherwise, there is no difference between Pakistani and Israeli approach.......
In your case, it's 'necessary evil', for others, they are the devil.......right??

In-fact, I would say Pakistan's ability to deliver munitions is much more precise than Israel's considering your experience in developing missiles and artillery and planes sourced from advanced countries including USA(from where Israel gets its weapons too).........

That seriously is the most twisted argument ever. Would you like to look at the arsenal of weapons available to Israel versus Pakistan?
And suddenly when required, the Indian narrative on ridiculing Pakistan's development of weapon systems turns on its head hypocritically when need to present their PoV?

Are you actually suggesting that Pakistan's organizations have better grip on the technologies as compared to IMI, IWI, Rafael ??

Please, when coming with a rebuttal .. atleast do better than that?

 

[Dillinger]

I suppose with guided munitions available using saturation bombardment with unguided artillery shells is kosher then?



That seriously is the most twisted argument ever. Would you like to look at the arsenal of weapons available to Israel versus Pakistan?
And suddenly when required, the Indian narrative on ridiculing Pakistan's development of weapon systems turns on its head hypocritically when need to present their PoV?

Are you actually suggesting that Pakistan's organizations have better grip on the technologies as compared to IMI, IWI, Rafael ??

Please, when coming with a rebuttal .. atleast do better than that?

The accuracy of weapons shouldn't even be the point of discussion, the shells which landed on the beach were plenty accurate, the criminality involved was in targeting the children on the beach. I may be completely blind of the context but that is NOT kosher.

 

[VCheng]

I suppose with guided munitions available using saturation bombardment with unguided artillery shells is kosher then?

The type and use of munitions is a military decision made by commanders to best meet the overall mission. What is absolutely kosher is the duty and right of a sovereign State to protect its citizens from indiscriminate attacks.

 

[Dillinger]

The type and use of munitions is a military decision made by commanders to best meet the overall mission. What is absolutely kosher is the duty and right of a sovereign State to protect its citizens from indiscriminate attacks.

By attacking indiscriminately themselves, or by diluting the standards of classifying legitimate military targets?

 

[VCheng]

By attacking indiscriminately themselves, or by diluting the standards of classifying legitimate military targets?

Neither of your contentions apply here.

 

[SQ8]

The type and use of munitions is a military decision made by commanders to best meet the overall mission. What is absolutely kosher is the duty and right of a sovereign State to protect its citizens from indiscriminate attacks.

By carrying out indiscriminate attacks themselves?

 

[Dillinger]

Neither of your contentions apply here.

SERIOUSLY?

So which legitimate target was situated on the beach they shelled? How did they identify it? What was the posited logic? When they spotted the children fleeing the first shell strike they just ASSUMED that they were combatants taking cover?

 

[Secur]

Neither of your contentions apply here.

Hospitals, schools, UN camps, mosques and other civilian infrastructures are all legitimate targets? The number of civilian causalities in the whole Gaza war is mind boggling and inexcusable, try not to defend it by "self-defense" or "commanders taking decisions to best meet their objectives" or even the little existing "human shields" when it is more than clear that the civilians are being deliberately targeted by Israel, perhaps under the same "Dahiya doctrine". Under the UN statistics, 83% of all people killed were civilians, now we may not be the angles we portray ourselves to be, we aren't doing anything this else to try and find a parallel with the situation in the tribal areas which is much different.

The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) estimated that 926 of the 1,117 deaths whose identities they have so far verified, were civilians (83%),[36] of whom 473 were women or children.[17] OCHA's spokesman said "There is literally no safe place for civilians" in Gaza.[37]

 

[Chronos]

By carrying out indiscriminate attacks themselves?

also the thought process. I think a commander can be let off the hook for not choosing to bomb a school to get at one or five terrorists.

At this point, the accumulation of civilian targets bombed, has even led some of the conservative commentators on U.S. to switch sides.

But for Netanayahu he can count on 87% Israeli support.

I read a U.N. report that 70-80% killed on the Palestinian side are civilians. Why Israel wants to bomb schools, busy markets, hospitals, power infrastructure beats me.

If I didn't know any better, this seems like an attempt to beat the Palestinians into submission more than a counter-terror op.

Israel has managed to put Hamas, a group beginning to be hated by even Arab nations, legitimacy as a resistance force again.

 

[VCheng]

By carrying out indiscriminate attacks themselves?

That is only your opinion. To quote @fatman17 as he commented on civilian deaths in FATA "shite happens". Nobody can avoid collateral damage. In a densely populated area, it is made more difficult still.

Hospitals, schools, UN camps, mosques and other civilian infrastructures are all legitimate targets? The number of civilian causalities in the whole Gaza war is mind boggling and inexcusable, try not to defend it by "self-defense" or "commanders taking decisions to best meet their objectives" or even the little existing "human shields" when it is more than clear that the civilians are being deliberately targeted by Israel, perhaps under the same "Dahiya doctrine". Under the UN statistics, 83% of all people killed were civilians, now we may not be the angles we portray ourselves to be, we aren't doing anything this else to try and find a parallel with the situation in the tribal areas which is much different.

The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) estimated that 926 of the 1,117 deaths whose identities they have so far verified, were civilians (83%),[36] of whom 473 were women or children.[17] OCHA's spokesman said "There is literally no safe place for civilians" in Gaza.[37]

Please see my reply above.