India, Pakistan and Bangladesh 70 years after the British left

[hunter_hunted]

As our beloved savior Negan once said that "My dick is bigger than yours, it is" contest going on over here

 

[Bilal9]

That's good for you guys if your government is doing it's part in improving the livelihood of the average Bdeshi. Though I would like to point out that Bdesh has many advantages over Pakistan, namely that it is a ethnically homogeneous country which is the most important factor, as @Kaptaan already pointed out. You guys don't have to deal with ethnic rivalries, sectarianism, provincialism, and many other problems including having a lawless country like Afghanistan next door as we do here in Pakistan and that have become major obsticles.

On the contrary, we don't need to. Because as I said in my post to @Nilgiri Bdesh has no relevance us. Whether that's politically, economically or in any other sphere.

Agreed and likewise Bhai. I don't think the avg. millenial person in Bangladesh has any feelings about Pakistan either. It's just political noise.

 

[Bilal9]

How many times are you going to parrot the same nonsense so shamelessly. Pakistan actually benefited from Bangladesh leaving.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indo...stani-drug-convict.441544/page-8#post-8522632

Bangladesh will close the economic gap in the coming years no doubt as it has been untouched by conflict, unlike Pakistan which has been in a quasi state of war since the US invasion of Afghanistan began.

Fortunes of countries go up and down all the time. Though I will argue - a few disasters here and there, usually does not change the larger macro-economic trends for countries. Afghanistan was a different story.

It is unfortunate for Pakistan that Afghanistan happened next door - but the policymakers should have made better choices in encouraging investments and/or found a niche, like we found garments in the late 70's. That should not have stopped because of Afghanistan.

I have been in various industrial fairs and when I found representatives of Pakistan in those venues - I found the initiative and 'fire in the belly' to commit to progress that we had in Bangladesh, absent. Maybe Pakistanis are more complacent because they think they are in a better place economically.

For example - Sialkot to my mind was to have been a regional engine of growth (Silverware, surgery implements and sports goods) and there could have been many more Sialkots created near the coast in Sindh - specializing in other niche low-cost identified industrial export sectors. Placing export factories in zones near the coast avoids the cost of transport and time spent which is the model used in China and also now - Bangladesh.

In my opinion, banking on CPEC alone is not going to bring sufficient dividends to uplift all of Pakistan, but I will confess I don't know enough about it to comment.

 

[Kambojaric]

Fortunes of countries go up and down all the time. Though I will argue - a few disasters here and there, usually does not change the larger macro-economic trends for countries. Afghanistan was a different story.

It is unfortunate for Pakistan that Afghanistan happened next door - but the policymakers should have made better choices in encouraging investments and/or found a niche, like we found garments in the late 70's. That should not have stopped because of Afghanistan.

I have been in various industrial fairs and when I found representatives of Pakistan in those venues - I found the initiative and 'fire in the belly' to commit to progress that we had in Bangladesh, absent. Maybe Pakistanis are more complacent because they think they are in a better place economically.

For example - Sialkot to my mind was to have been a regional engine of growth (Silverware, surgery implements and sports goods) and there could have been many more Sialkots created near the coast in Sindh - specializing in other niche low-cost identified industrial export sectors. Placing export factories in zones near the coast avoids the cost of transport and time spent which is the model used in China and also now - Bangladesh.

In my opinion, banking on CPEC alone is not going to bring sufficient dividends to uplift all of Pakistan, but I will confess I don't know enough about it to comment.

Pakistan's growth has been very decent actually till 2007 when two negative factors emerged:

1) the menace of terrorism really got out of hand. Between 2004 and 2006 we grew at around 7%, but from 2007 onwards growth rates skyrocketed downwards, averaging at around 2% for the next 5-6 years. In 2009 11,000 people died in Pakistan from terrorist incidents (http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/database/casualties.htm)
The positive is that following operation zarb e azb the security situation has increasingly normalised, and business and trade is flourishing again. https://www.wsj.com/articles/pakistans-middle-class-soars-as-stability-returns-1485945001

2) The second problem (which is not related to the war admittedly) for Pakistan has been the inability of the state to provide electricity to the industrial sector. The mid-2000s as stated before saw Pakistan and its middle class grow strongly. Increased consumption and no investment in increasing electricity generation capacity meant that very soon there was far greater demand for electricity than was being generated. The industrial sector paid the price. The situation there too is improving however again .(https://www.brecorder.com/2017/10/06/373402/dealing-with-power-surplus/).

_________________

I agree that CPEC is not the solution alone, but the investment and inflow of FDI sure is a welcome change after it had all but disappeared following the surge of terrorism in 2007. Further with basic issues that have ailed the Pakistani economy for a decade or so finally coming under increased control, the near future looks bright. However at the end of the day our dynamics are quite different. Pakistan has to maintain one of the largest militaries in the world, maintian and further develop a nuclear arsenal, invest in defensive strategies along the border with Afghanistan (which is the source for a large chunk of the terrorist attacks in Pakistan including the 2014 Peshawar school massacre)

"Pakistan’s military estimates that it will need about 56 billion rupees ($532 million) for the project" (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...der-fence-to-keep-out-militants-idUSKBN1CN25D)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...y-new-combat-drone-great-national-achievement

Bangladesh does not have to worry about these kind of expensive defence investments. It seems to be opting for the diplomacy route in order to keep away the big neighbour (which imo is not very smart an example being the way the big "friendly" neighbour ignored Bangladesh's legitimate concerns recently in the ongoing Rohingya/Myanmar crises, but that is for Bangladeshi's to discuss and ponder over). Ultimately Pakistanis wish well for Bangladesh and we are always shocked when Bangladeshis come here on PDF and have a go at Pakistan.

 

[Bilal9]

Pakistan's growth has been very decent actually till 2007 when two negative factors emerged:

1) the menace of terrorism really got out of hand. Between 2004 and 2006 we grew at around 7%, but from 2007 onwards growth rates skyrocketed downwards, averaging at around 2% for the next 5-6 years. In 2009 11,000 people died in Pakistan from terrorist incidents (http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/database/casualties.htm)
The positive is that following operation zarb e azb the security situation has increasingly normalised, and business and trade is flourishing again. https://www.wsj.com/articles/pakistans-middle-class-soars-as-stability-returns-1485945001

2) The second problem (which is not related to the war admittedly) for Pakistan has been the inability of the state to provide electricity to the industrial sector. The mid-2000s as stated before saw Pakistan and its middle class grow strongly. Increased consumption and no investment in increasing electricity generation capacity meant that very soon there was far greater demand for electricity than was being generated. The industrial sector paid the price. The situation there too is improving however again .(https://www.brecorder.com/2017/10/06/373402/dealing-with-power-surplus/).

_________________

I agree that CPEC is not the solution alone, but the investment and inflow of FDI sure is a welcome change after it had all but disappeared following the surge of terrorism in 2007. Further with basic issues that have ailed the Pakistani economy for a decade or so finally coming under increased control, the near future looks bright. However at the end of the day our dynamics are quite different. Pakistan has to maintain one of the largest militaries in the world, maintian and further develop a nuclear arsenal, invest in defensive strategies along the border with Afghanistan (which is the source for a large chunk of the terrorist attacks in Pakistan including the 2014 Peshawar school massacre)

"Pakistan’s military estimates that it will need about 56 billion rupees ($532 million) for the project" (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...der-fence-to-keep-out-militants-idUSKBN1CN25D)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...y-new-combat-drone-great-national-achievement

Bangladesh does not have to worry about these kind of expensive defence investments. It seems to be opting for the diplomacy route in order to keep away the big neighbour (which imo is not very smart an example being the way the big "friendly" neighbour ignored Bangladesh's legitimate concerns recently in the ongoing Rohingya/Myanmar crises, but that is for Bangladeshi's to discuss and ponder over). Ultimately Pakistanis wish well for Bangladesh and we are always shocked when Bangladeshis come here on PDF and have a go at Pakistan.

Well - first thing is you can count me out from the group of ardent Pakistan-haters, I am glad to see that Pakistan is in an upward trajectory. Our futures are no longer intertwined and I wish the Pakistani people a stable, prosperous future.

Regarding the point you made about electricity generation, rental power has been the salve on Bangladesh' electricity wounds. Though expensive to operate and maintain compared to base units (permanent plants), these rental plants can be barge mounted and floated to almost anywhere in Bangladesh. This allowed Bangladesh to buy time while it invests in larger plants using latest technology (nuclear, LNG and super-critical coal).

I don't know if this is possible in Pakistan, but it can probably work in Karachi at least.

I also read these about the David Walters-Musharraf power plant fiasco.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/gove...cle_252cebaa-e514-5876-9136-63ad71a440fa.html

https://www.forbes.com/global/2009/...p-rental-power-for-pakistan.html#6b27d94b5922

 

[Nilgiri]

That's good for you guys if your government is doing it's part in improving the livelihood of the average Bdeshi. Though I would like to point out that Bdesh has many advantages over Pakistan, namely that it is a ethnically homogeneous country which is the most important factor, as @Kaptaan already pointed out. You guys don't have to deal with ethnic rivalries, sectarianism, provincialism, and many other problems including having a lawless country like Afghanistan next door as we do here in Pakistan and that have become major obsticles.

On the contrary, we don't need to. Because as I said in my post to @Nilgiri Bdesh has no relevance us. Whether that's politically, economically or in any other sphere.

Plus that idiot thinks cherry picking "equitable income distribution" means squat to development.

Better make sure that everyone is equally poor!....and have the govt do its awesome job in ensuring that!

*Cue Katusha*