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India: Pak Rail team arrives today to buy engines

According to the list , India is below China in terms of quality.

dont go by the list,
u had experience with Chinese engines not taste some Indian products then u will realize the difference

And if those LOCOs are performing well in India the they will definitely do well in Pakistan
 
We shouldn't buy Indian crap... The engines will probably stop after 5 minutes that is quality of Indian maal.... Reality is that that is why you are known all over the world for cheap labor but not good products

You are one hell of an absolute funny guy that even dont have any idea of what he is talking.

FYI, those very crappy locos carry 30 million passengers/day and 3 million tonns for freight daily.

IF those numbers still dont satisfy your obsession with India, IR operates over 9000 locos alone and 60,000 coaches and 250,000 wagons on contrast to 73 locos out of 500+ initially brought from china and operated by Pakistani railways.......

You know what % of the locos are in good condition now? :D

Kid, do u know? that IR recently designed and built a double decker? Does pakistan atall have any sort of loco building?
 
I totally agree. The quality of Indian machinary is not very good. That is why the Durav Helicopter crahsed and were returned by the South American Indian Defense Customers. Pakistani and Chinese locomotives are better.

sir with due respect,i am NOT here for trolling but for serious discussions,so time for some reality check up-
1)chinese indigenous locomtives are **** and cant run in indian sub continent conditions,whereas indian WDM-3,4,5 class engines are working fine in indian conditions for so long
indian WDM-3A,3B etc are so rugged that they can take hell lot of abuses
2)indian locomotives have been exported to a lot of countries including regional countries like b'desh,sri lanka,mynmar,and a lot of south american countries
3)the recent WDG-5(5500hp class) class are the latest diesel engines which are about to come online very soon,these have electronically controlled engine,and the driver compartment is airconditioned
4)the WAP-7 class are electric engine with 6500hp

I totally agree. The quality of Indian machinary is not very good. That is why the Durav Helicopter crahsed and were returned by the South American Indian Defense Customers. Pakistani and Chinese locomotives are better.

here is the WDG-5 class,most powerful diesel engine class,but still it is short of almost 1000hp when compared to WAP-7
Wdg-5.JPG
 
Jumed to page 11 directly, cant understand what is special about our engines. We manufacture it cost effectively and will sell it to anyone including pakistan.
It is not a critical piece of equipment that will improve their defence, some people are too paranoid.
 
World class rail on third class engines?
World class rail on third class engines? - The Sunday Indian

Indian Railways Electric locomotives use obsolete technology

Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav has promised to build a world Class railway system. But, on the ground, he is miles away from his goal. A railway network needs powerful engines that are capable of pulling heavy loads on tracks that are compatible. But the reality is that India's Rail engines use technology that is 18 years old. Locomotives made in the country's only Electric Engine manufacturing unit in Chittaranjan are breaking down regularly. officers are not only fudging facts to cover their tracks, they are also merrily taking the minister for a ride.

Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav�s favourite Doctor Silver is stuck in the lab. He flagged it off two years ago, but the locomotive is yet to hit the tracks. Doctor Silver is the last new electric engine to be built at Chittaranjan Locomotive Workshop (CLW), India's sole electric engine manufacturing unit. But the rollout hasn't begun yet. The myopia of the railway officials is at fault. According to the Public Relations Officer Mantar Singh of CLW, �One engine is in service in the Gomoh Shed of Eastern Central Railways.� The spokesperson of the Railway Ministry, Anil Saxena, however, says: �The engine is being used to run a goods train on a trial basis.�

The truth is that this engine could not measure up to expected standards. Yet, CLW officials got it inaugurated by the railway minister without proper inspection. During the inauguration of Doctor Silver, constructed at a cost of Rs 30 crore, railway officers had made tall promises. The engine, they had claimed, would be state-of-the-art. Were it to develop any snag, the workshop would be directly intimated through GPRS technology and the driver would be able to rectify the fault on the basis of directions from there. But that system did not succeed. On the contrary, the engine turned out to be so heavy that it could be run on the existing railway tracks.

At the Chittaranjan Locomotive Workshop, General Manager V. Shankar declined to talk. The PRO, Mantar Singh, answered our questions as per the directions given by the Deputy General Manager, Amitabh Chaudhary. The PRO quoted General Manager V. Shankar and accepted that this engine of WAG-9 Class was heavy (22.5 tonne per axel). Sources revealed its weight wasn't in keeping with track and speed requirements. That is why it wasn't cleared by the railways security commissioner.

The failure of Doctor Silver is only the tip of the iceberg. The truth is that the electric engines pulling Indian Railways are based on technologies that are more than 15 years old. Earlier, Indian engineers used to make changes in the existing technology to produced new engine models. That is now a thing of the past.

The electric rail engines running in India are based on technology provided by ABB, Switzerland. It was bought in 1991 for Rs 29 crore. After the technology transfer under the agreement, some experiments were done and new engines were manufactured. World class rail on third class engines? Doctor Silver was made by CLW based on the same technology and officials convinced the railway minister to inaugurate it in 2006 even before they themselves were satisfied with the engine. This WAG-9 class engine is of 6000 horsepower, enough to pull 24 to 26 coaches at a maximum speed of 130 km.

Passenger trains in Germany, Japan, France and China are touching speeds of 300 to 320 km per hour. Indian Railways has much catching up to do in terms of both speed and weight-pulling capacity. In developed countries, engines can pull up to 14,000 tonnes; in India, the figure is around 5000 tonnes. According to General Manager, Western Railways, A.P. Mishra, there are plans to make high-speed rail corridors to increase the speed of trains. The routes of Delhi-Chandigarh, Mumbai-Ahmedabad, Chennai-Coimbatore, Chennai-Bengaluru and Delhi-Kanpur have been identified for the purpose. Studies are being done, but it may take another five to six years for these corridors to start .

The troubles do not end here. The engines produced at CLW are prone to frequent breakdowns. This results in the loss of crores of rupees for the Indian Railways. Serious questions are being raised over safety. The Divisional Rail Manager (DRM) of Asansol, A.K. Rawel, wrote two letters to the Chief Electrical Engineer (CEE) of CLW. In letter no D.O.E.L.S./111/ OP/ D&F dated 12/7/07 and 06/11/06, he pointed out new electric engines produced in Chittaranjan are developing faults repeatedly.

In fact, many of the engines manufactured last year developed problems as soon as they started running. According to Mr Rawel, he had asked for necessary action but it did not solve the problem.

He not only talks about mechanical faults, but also the poor quality of production. He cited the example of Engine No 27879, which was handed over to him from CLW on June 19, 2007. Its control cable developed a snag because of poor production quality. As a result, movement of passenger trains 3049, 5049, 8183, 8068, 3021, 3185, 054 down and 132 down was affected for hours. He has passed on elaborate details about the engines that ran into mechanical problems during the last two months.

CLW buys most parts from companies that are not ISO certified. CLW's V. Shankar claims orders have been issued to stop purchase of parts from such companies. But there are allegations that this process is still going on unobstructed.

Two years ago, parts supplied by a private company were rejected after inspection. The company was asked to replace the parts as they were under warranty. But the company did not replace the parts despite receiving full payment. These faulty parts were fitted in an engine produced in late 2007.

A protest letter (Letter No. E.L.E/ T/ 21A Dated 26/6/05) was written by an officer to the Assistant Materials Manager and a copy was sent to CLW. The letter refers to numerous problems with parts of the engines under production.

CLW is ISO 9001 certified. But it has miles to go before it can give Indian Railways world class electric engines.

This rail workshop situated on the border of Jharkhand-West Bengal, in the words of Jawaharlal Nehru, is the first industrial temple of independent India. There are seven big and small lakes around the workshop which are home to over 170 species of birds. More than 30 species come to this spot from Northern Europe, Central Asia and Tibet.

The foundation stone of the workshop was laid on January 26, 1950. The first engine was made on November 1 , 1950 and the same day it was named Chittaranjan Locomotive Workshop after the great freedom fighter Deshbandhu Chittaranjan Das. It is the only workshop that makes electric rail engine whereas the only workshop of diesel engines is in Benaras.

CLW was established to produce just 120 average sized steam engines but it produced diesel in 1968 and electric engine in 1971 and kept adding new chapters in the history of Indian Railways. The Workshop produced five types of total 2351 engines running on steam and seven types of 842 diesel engines of low horsepower. The production of steam and diesel engines was stopped in 1973-74 and 1993-94 respectively and with this started the serial production of electric engines. Till December 2007, this workshop has produced 3664 electric engines of various types.


this article is utter crap. the author has provided a lot of incomplete and falsified information. Though i agree that the technology in indian locomotives is comparitively old, it is certainly not obsolete by any standards. Many european countries railway networks run locos based this very technology.

1. firstly author says that indian engineers do not improve on the existing rolling stock and upgrade it nowdays, but this is wrong.
gto thyristers are being replaced by igbt traction which has increased reliability of locos by 50 percent and energy efficiency by 15 percent.

2. secondly, dr silver technology is very much being used and is not merely a prototype. I have seen them working myself when i visited clw facilities as a part of russian railway delegation. Also , dr silver is not a locomotive( as stated by author which is wrong), but a technology to record loco stats during its running and provide automatic corrective measures if any fault occurs

3. thirdly, indian railway tracks have been upgraded to accomodate 23 tonne axle loads.

4. the most important point, no locomotive in the world is being used commercially to pull 14000 tonne trains single handedly. the locos are usually multi linked to pull such heavy loads. For instance in USA and Australia , heavy freight trains weighing upto 20000 tonnes are hauled by 7-8 diesel locos of 4000 hp. The most powerful loco, chinese -"hxd1c" , has capacity to haul 9000 tonnes at a moderate gradient at 100 kph.

5. indian freight locos( wag 7 and wag 9) are certified to haul 6000 tonne trains at 100 kph, but they can haul 8000- 9000 tonne trains at lower balancing speeds of about 60-65 kph at moderate gradients, test have been done to prove this.

6. locomotive wap 7 is capable of hauling 26 coaches at 140-160 and not wag 9 loco, as slated by the author.

7. lastly to say, speeds of 300 kph is achieved only on dedicated high speed corridors and not on conventional rails, where speed lies in 160 - 180 kph bracket. Even china which has about 10000 kms of track for high speed rail, 90 percent people still travel by conventional rail which spreads to more than 90000 kms of track. No country in the world can afford complete shift to high speed rail in short time, even usa can't.
 
India is going to sell us teen number ka maal.

i can understand your emotion, i know it's really difficult for you to accept the truth. i know this is very embarrassing moment for you but you need to understand there is still lot of people in pakistan who are not like you. the people unlike you still think about country economic and social growth. they put there ego aside and ready talk with india for their country and people. but if you still think they are wrong then you can give your valuable single vote to those people who are like you. every single vote is important to build strong democracy but Do you really like democracy :pop:
 
Let them buy guys...its about developing their infrastructure. Let the economic ties grow. Pakistan can become our access to Afghanistan. Otherwise if things goes more bad with US and Iran, we will get in very difficult situation.
 
India is going to sell us teen number ka maal.
Have faith in your engineers. They won't take such engines if you have doubt. BTW, why would we sell teen number ka maal if we want to establish our export industry.
 
I think its a sound investment for Pakistan

Purchase 50 Engines + Lease 50 more Engines

And just give out contract for 200+ Engines if the first experience goes well with first 100 locomotives, or get into agreement to assemble Indian engines in Pakistan

Due to Proximity of Indian Factories if anything goes wrong repairs are easy and also engineers can come over from India to Pakistan

Solid Move

Railways need to make money $$$ in order to also repair other 500 Engines that can be repaired for 25-100 Million USD

Wdg-5.JPG


This would be welcomed site then having no rail service
 
Hey if the quality is so bad then surely Pakistani railways wouldn't accept the engines due to their exceptionally high standards, right? Thing is Pakistan is willing to buy and India is willing to sell- that is business for you. India is continually building more and more high tech railway equipment and also incredibly innovative equipment. No need to bite the hand that feeds you.
 

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