India on the War path?

[Taimoor Khan]

I am not worried about Indian clown like Modi, and his side kicks like bipin and bullshit dhoana. Their diatribes are obviously for their gullible Indian population but since its coming from top, what worries me that any Indian move, how harmless it might be, the nutcases in Pakistani armed forces might take it as a signal, and since Pakistan works on first strike policy, launch a substantial preemptive strike on Indian assets, more specifically, Indian airforce assets.

 

[Mrc]

I am not worried about Indian clown like Modi, and his side kicks like bipin and bullshit dhoana. Their diatribes are obviously for their gullible Indian population but since its coming from top, what worries me that any Indian move, how harmless it might be, the nutcases in Pakistani armed forces might take it as a signal, and since Pakistan works on first strike policy, launch a substantial preemptive strike on Indian assets, more specifically, Indian airforce assets.

Why does this worry you??

 

[Cookie Monster]

India is bigger than Europe in land mass

Europe land mass: 10,180,000 square km
Source: Wikipedia
India land mass: 3,287,263 square km
Source: Wikipedia

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I am not worried about Indian clown like Modi, and his side kicks like bipin and bullshit dhoana. Their diatribes are obviously for their gullible Indian population but since its coming from top, what worries me that any Indian move, how harmless it might be, the nutcases in Pakistani armed forces might take it as a signal, and since Pakistan works on first strike policy, launch a substantial preemptive strike on Indian assets, more specifically, Indian airforce assets.

When 50 folks have 70% of a country's wealth they have the final say...

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

India cannot control the quantum of this nor the escalation once the conflagration starts. This is not a case of India going after some camps in Myanmar. Pakistan will hit back as hard or harder initially. Once hit with a significant response, India will have no choice but to escalate. This is where this silly assumption of a war being 48-72 hours is a bad joke. This maybe possible for Israel to do with Hizbollah, but not in the case of two massive conventional and nuclear powers.

Big words like "devastating", "teaching a lesson" etc. are easier said on such forums. There is not a single person in uniform on the Indian side who can provide any assurance as to where this will go once they roll the dice.


So Pakistan will just sit back and let India cross our conventional red lines and meekly let our nuclear deterrence become irrelevant? Is that the postulation on the Indian side? Once this starts, it won't end in either country's favor.
Pakistan will not have a repeat of 1971! Mark my words on this. I am sure you know what the Samson option is. Pakistan's thinking with regards to India is very similar if it sees itself as losing a war with India where its own independent foreign policy and outlook in threatened with subservience and hegemony.

Surrender is no option, fear is no policy - aptly said by Rahmetli Hamid Gul Pasha...

 

[Zen0]

I find it amusing that a country building tactical nukes on open warfare is criticising anyone on war paths

Especially when its enemies have a no first use doctrine.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The real fear is on India’s side as their wolf of two front war is finally becoming real and their window of opportunity to deal a military solution to Pakistan is all but closed

I do not think that there was ever any window of opportunity, nor that our cautious and generally peaceful leadership ever thought of such a military solution. If you examine the records carefully, except for the present set of ponces, nobody, ever, even during Vajpayee's strongest period, or during Indira Gandhi's military salience, thought of anything like India has faced. Not even on the covert level; let us get past the ever-present conviction even in balanced Pakistani minds of India's unilateral involvement in terrorist activity from the outset, and recall that on two separate occasions, the only effective intelligence agency that we had was asked not to engage with Pakistan. The second occasion lasted till three years ago; how anyone, forbidden to engage with specific entities, could do so in the Indian context of a bureaucracy unable to think, leave alone act, beyond their brief, is difficult to visualise.

Subvention of those opposed to Pakistani domination of parts of what is already Pakistan and accepted as such in all international fora, or tacit support to the extent of providing critics the ability to travel by providing them with alternative documents is an entirely different matter. These are actions taken by MEA, and are taken in the face of deep misgivings on the part of the professional cadre.

Strategic restraint was never an excuse for inaction; it was seen as an extension of some aspects of Indian political DNA. It is my personal regret that even the wisest and most broad-minded of my Pakistani interlocutors has seen this as an act of cowardice, more a case of 'I dare not' than one of 'I will not'. Even a cursory examination of the available assets, even more, the available opportunities, would show that a determined enemy could do enormous damage, perhaps even irreversible damage to an adversary other than the PRC. Please disregard the antics of the fanboys. We chose not to.

 

[pothead]

I guess, Historically speaking your Establishment never interfered in Pak politics and your forces never surrendered in front of Indians forces

Ahh, the old show the mirror strategy. well played friend.

Point here is not about India's war path. The whole fear is the acknowledgement of the old India which was almost apologetic when using power to settle disputes does not exist anymore.
The current dispensation does not mind to use power and does not mind the world to know it can and will use power.

This particular change in the mindset of India, is not something that is not digestible to our neighbours & hence messages like this.

India needs to be assertive and they are being assertive and letting the neighbours know that two can play the game.

 

[I.R.A]

indian air force chief is not an Hindu .......... the images suggest that he is a Sikh (If I am not mistaken by his beard and pony).

Second ....... most probably what he said would have been "we have the capability to strike (surgical or non surgical) Pakistan's nuclear sites and plants" ..... which may very well be true ..... and what media promoted was "We will do surgical strikes on Pakistan's nuclear sites" ........... it doesn't cost media a nuclear war to report like this.

Third (in any case) if I were part of Pakistani decision making and future strategy making process .... I will take this threat / statement very seriously ...... I will keep a watchful eye on india US growing love relationship ........ most of what india may say in coming days may be the wishes of US ......... by the way anyone interested to study US aims and future strategy should closely study where and when they are constructing their new buildings.

 

[Arsalan 345]

Nuclear strike package ready for new Delhi and mumbai.one nuclear bomb over Delhi and Mumbai will end India once for all.and all Indian radar stations might be busy and asking for more air support.india can't handle only a single wave of vipers.ms dhona must look at the ground realities before speaking like a stupid idiot.

 

[SQ8]

I do not think that there was ever any window of opportunity, nor that our cautious and generally peaceful leadership ever thought of such a military solution. If you examine the records carefully, except for the present set of ponces, nobody, ever, even during Vajpayee's strongest period, or during Indira Gandhi's military salience, thought of anything like India has faced. Not even on the covert level; let us get past the ever-present conviction even in balanced Pakistani minds of India's unilateral involvement in terrorist activity from the outset, and recall that on two separate occasions, the only effective intelligence agency that we had was asked not to engage with Pakistan. The second occasion lasted till three years ago; how anyone, forbidden to engage with specific entities, could do so in the Indian context of a bureaucracy unable to think, leave alone act, beyond their brief, is difficult to visualise.

Subvention of those opposed to Pakistani domination of parts of what is already Pakistan and accepted as such in all international fora, or tacit support to the extent of providing critics the ability to travel by providing them with alternative documents is an entirely different matter. These are actions taken by MEA, and are taken in the face of deep misgivings on the part of the professional cadre.

Strategic restraint was never an excuse for inaction; it was seen as an extension of some aspects of Indian political DNA. It is my personal regret that even the wisest and most broad-minded of my Pakistani interlocutors has seen this as an act of cowardice, more a case of 'I dare not' than one of 'I will not'. Even a cursory examination of the available assets, even more, the available opportunities, would show that a determined enemy could do enormous damage, perhaps even irreversible damage to an adversary other than the PRC. Please disregard the antics of the fanboys. We chose not to.

To echo a cliched statement “madness, is like gravity..”
however, subversive activities were undertaken by India all the way back in the 60’s in the form of Bengali dissidents- prior to the 65 war the eastern wing had fairly open borders and a weekend in calcutta was common for many. A lot of the mujib cadre recieved their support and indoctrination from there even during Ayub’s overtures of fighting the “red menace “ together.

The 90s was wholly clandestine money support for both ethnic &sectarian terror in Pakistan as reprisal for the Kashmir fires and the Mumbai Gang choke.

So it’s not all washed with milk regradless of the majority of the Indian Bureaucracy or government frowning upon it- but what I will concede is that prior to this government; India always had the more saner & elucidated leadership of the two with ours easily fifteen points or so lower on the IQ&sanity index- so while Pakistani leadership may have risen 4-5 points up, Indias has fallen below ours. That is the dangerous bit in all of this; we now have people on both sides willing to press the ultimate trigger.

While that possibility is a fair chance off usually, the danger lies in both the equation of conflict coming in, teetering , and now on the brink of slipping away from India in its current acceptable losses/casualty “victory” - it’s a “now” or “hope for another disaster in ten years” situation presented(by a breed of hawks long relegated only to small audiences or bellicose talk shows) to the fascists in power which may have them take that chance.

 

[Arsalan]

I do not think that there was ever any window of opportunity, nor that our cautious and generally peaceful leadership ever thought of such a military solution. If you examine the records carefully, except for the present set of ponces, nobody, ever, even during Vajpayee's strongest period, or during Indira Gandhi's military salience, thought of anything like India has faced. Not even on the covert level; let us get past the ever-present conviction even in balanced Pakistani minds of India's unilateral involvement in terrorist activity from the outset, and recall that on two separate occasions, the only effective intelligence agency that we had was asked not to engage with Pakistan. The second occasion lasted till three years ago; how anyone, forbidden to engage with specific entities, could do so in the Indian context of a bureaucracy unable to think, leave alone act, beyond their brief, is difficult to visualise.

Subvention of those opposed to Pakistani domination of parts of what is already Pakistan and accepted as such in all international fora, or tacit support to the extent of providing critics the ability to travel by providing them with alternative documents is an entirely different matter. These are actions taken by MEA, and are taken in the face of deep misgivings on the part of the professional cadre.

Strategic restraint was never an excuse for inaction; it was seen as an extension of some aspects of Indian political DNA. It is my personal regret that even the wisest and most broad-minded of my Pakistani interlocutors has seen this as an act of cowardice, more a case of 'I dare not' than one of 'I will not'. Even a cursory examination of the available assets, even more, the available opportunities, would show that a determined enemy could do enormous damage, perhaps even irreversible damage to an adversary other than the PRC. Please disregard the antics of the fanboys. We chose not to.

To echo a cliched statement “madness, is like gravity..”
however, subversive activities were undertaken by India all the way back in the 60’s in the form of Bengali dissidents- prior to the 65 war the eastern wing had fairly open borders and a weekend in calcutta was common for many. A lot of the mujib cadre recieved their support and indoctrination from there even during Ayub’s overtures of fighting the “red menace “ together.

The 90s was wholly clandestine money support for both ethnic &sectarian terror in Pakistan as reprisal for the Kashmir fires and the Mumbai Gang choke.

So it’s not all washed with milk regradless of the majority of the Indian Bureaucracy or government frowning upon it- but what I will concede is that prior to this government; India always had the more saner & elucidated leadership of the two with ours easily fifteen points or so lower on the IQ&sanity index- so while Pakistani leadership may have risen 4-5 points up, Indias has fallen below ours. That is the dangerous bit in all of this; we now have people on both sides willing to press the ultimate trigger.

While that possibility is a fair chance off usually, the danger lies in both the equation of conflict coming in, teetering , and now on the brink of slipping away from India in its current acceptable losses/casualty “victory” - it’s a “now” or “hope for another disaster in ten years” situation presented(by a breed of hawks long relegated only to small audiences or bellicose talk shows) to the fascists in power which may have them take that chance.

Two men, calling spade a spade!
Looking forward to further discussion and will just keep silent and enjoy the debate. Please do carry on. It was GREAT reading both these posts really.


EVERYONE: Truth is not always hurting you see? Read this people, it is like a benchmark.
@The Sandman @Moonlight @Neutron @saiyan0321 @Tipu7

 

[BetterPakistan]

Your post raises two points

First is about Armed forces being involved in politics and the other is the superiority of Pak forces over Indians.

I guess, Historically speaking your Establishment never interfered in Pak politics and your forces never surrendered in front of Indians forces

History, you want me to tell you history? Which one the most recent about kargil?? or you want me to tell you about what we did with you in 65?

 

[The Eagle]

Your own politicians threaten india with tactical nukes every month.

So our Politicians and IAF Chief, are not different even the way mostly we hold these politicians, you wouldn't agree though. A Chief (Military) and a Politician, shouldn't be compared at all nor resembles by any mean however, you can enlighten us here in-case of India. NaMO and alikes run the whole election campaign based upon attacking Pakistan and all to win the votes and even by such comparison, you wouldn't find any Pakistani Major Party Leader threatening as such during campaign let alone speaking of Chief on this level.

However, the conclusion arises that if our politician threatens as such, the Indian Chiefs would belike. (Just to clarify, Pakistani politicians only issue such statement as a reminder when the threat arises from India whether a cold feet start doctrine or whatever India name it).

 

[Laozi]

History, you want me to tell you history? Which one the most recent about kargil?? or you want me to tell you about what we did with you in 65?

in 65 war India has captured more territory than Pakistan did, but both countries agreed to exchange the won territory.
In Kargil Musharraf betrayed Nawaz, Pakistani people and India. Further he eroded Pakistani credibility and gained nothing.
You delibrately skipped the involvement of your establishment in your country's politics Doesn't matter !!!