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India now puts aircraft carrier plan on fast track

Should we choose Rafale as a stop gap until the N-FGFA becomes a reality

It is not the case the development of the N-FGFA will take time, if that were the case the IN could afford to wait a while because the N-FGFA would be easily the most capable and deadly carrier fighter in the world. But the issue the N-FGFA is likely to NEVER be developed because it simply can't operate from catapults making it incompatible with the IN's future carriers.

I think this carrier is the standard for the next aircraft carriers that will be built.

Yes I would suspect this. The IN needs to settle on a class of ACCs and start churning them out, once the IAC-2 is in service the IN will be operating 3 different carriers of 3 different classes which is far from ideal in terms of training, logistics and maintenance (although the level of commonality between the IAC-1 and IAC-2 class will be high).
 
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Yes I would suspect this. The IN needs to settle on a class of ACCs and start churning them out, once the IAC-2 is in service the IN will be operating 3 different carriers of 3 different classes which is far from ideal in terms of training, logistics and maintenance (although the level of commonality between the IAC-1 and IAC-2 class will be high).

I think IN is planning to operate 5 Aircraft carriers by 2030 apart from helicopter carriers.

The idea is buy as many types of weapons as possible , digest the tech and "make in India" then "R&D in India" :tup:
 
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Mate will F-35C will be bad option, i am saying in terms US famous for playing Sanction sanction..........
Not just the risk of sanctions (although this risk is almost negligible these days) but all the strings that come attached with US equipment- the end user agreements, being locked into their supply chain etc etc India isn't even prepared to sign the LSA so how will it feel about all of the strings that come with the F-35C?

It can launch a variety of air crafts and we can easly come up with a version of a plane (Tejas/AMCA/FGFA)

It's not as easy as that.

b)You say HAL can't deliver on time and sadly I agree :( . but we have to pull through ... we have to put pressure on these guys and make them perform .... No other choice sadly.
It's not a question of HAL's capabilities but what is asked of them, if the IN were leading the AMCA project and specified it had to be able to launch from catapults I have no doubt HAL would deliver on this. The fact is, as far as I can see, the IN have made no such requests and don't seem involved in the AMCA project at all which is most bizarre as they have their finger prints all over the NLCA/LCA Mk.2 and you would have thought the AMCA was the next logical progression for them.


What is wrong with Silent Hornet?
It is a great machine but it doesn't have the longevity the IN will require. The IAC-2/Vishal class will be in service from the mid 2020s onward and the IN will need a fighter that can serve for 30-40+ years with a lot of upgrade potential, the F-18 is not that bird.


On solution to this condurum of which Aircraft to field from IAC-2 could be solved by developing AMCA as a CATOBAR figter from start.

To a great extent yes. If the IN pumped some serious cash into the AMCA project and specified what they wanted form the bird this would solve a lot of this head scratching and the catch 22 nature of this situation.


Why the IN aren't doing this is most, most perplexing considering their demonstrated forward thinking in many other arenas especially when it comes to indigenous projects.

I think IN is planning to operate 5 Aircraft carriers by 2030 apart from helicopter carriers.
I don't see 5 carriers by 2030 unless the IAC-3 and 4 are built simultaneously from 2020. Unless this were to happen I think the IN will have 4 CBGs by 2030 and 4 LHD/LPD.
 
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Vikramnditya and IAC-1, both are ski-jump carriers. I think there is enough similarity between the two.
Other than both being STOBAR carriers there won't be a whole lot in common with them in terms of onboard systems and equipment. The IAC-1 will be light-years ahead of the Vikramditya on most areas in terms of onboard equipment.
 
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It's not about sanctions only, but about operational limitations US aircrafts mean for our forces!

The F35 would come with an US "export" AESA, avionics and weapon pack that we neither can modify nor customize. We know that US arms will come with end user monitoring restictions, we know that they try to demand how their arms and techs will be used, we know that the F35 can be maintained only at specific locations (Japan or Italy) and that upgrade of systems will be dependent on US government approval, we know that the "export" weapon pack the US allows India, might be better than what they allow Pakistan, but still is far inferior to what we can have from Europeans, let alone what FGFA offers (Nirbhay, Brahmos M, Kh58, Kh35) and these restrictions wouldn't be limited to the fighters only!
The E-2D coupled with a catapult system is surely the best choice for carrier based long range AWACS capability as a platform, but it's an US radar system, that comes with no possibility to modify or upgrade it as we want, even if we have better systems available.
All this makes IN operationally completely dependent on the US, if they go for F35 / F18SH + E-2D, if they let themselfs blind by getting CATOBAR carriers. Catapults are important for our future carrier, but IN must be able to remain independent and not just to divert the dependance on Russians today, to dependance on the US in future. If they go for US catapults, they have to focus on getting independent aircrafts as alternatives, be it N-FGFA, or an AMCA that is developed for catapult operations (which DRDO is completely ignoring at the moment) and ideally an AWACS with a DRDO radar.
This situation is becoming very confusing if we go CATOBAR then we have to go with all the US made fighters and AWACS, it give us big leap in terms of operation capability but and it is big but it comes with lots of restriction, In DRDO they themselves don't know what their target is for future (other than missiles), they just keep on coming with all the fancy name but products are no-where to be seen. DRDO is still hell bend on making 360 degree AWACS for air force and god knows when they will complete.
Russia seems no where interested in naval variant at least till now as they have yet not started the carrier program they want to have by 2040-2050, because of oil price drop it will be surely be in pipeline for foreseeable future as more important defense aqusation is pending.
If i sum in total we are really screwed at this moment. F***:hitwall::hitwall:
 
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Russia seems no where interested in naval variant at least till now as they have yet not started the carrier program

That's not correct, they have proposed us to develop the design of the naval Pak Fa / FGFA as part of our participation in the joint development, next to the design part of the twin seater. They also have offered us the joint development for a NG nuclear carrier and they already have own EMALS and AWACS developments too. @Abingdonboy and I have talked about it here too:

Indian Navy & Coast Guard for briefing on Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey | Page 2
 
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That's not correct, they have proposed us to develop the design of the naval Pak Fa / FGFA as part of our participation in the joint development, next to the design part of the twin seater. They also have offered us the joint development for a NG nuclear carrier and they already have own EMALS and AWACS developments too. @Abingdonboy and I have talked about it here too:

Indian Navy & Coast Guard for briefing on Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey | Page 2[/QUOTE


What do you think the propulsion system would be?
 
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On solution to this condurum of which Aircraft to field from IAC-2 could be solved by developing AMCA as a CATOBAR figter from start.

Granted that in keeping with historical precedence, DRDO would miss deadlines and this Aircraft would not fly before 2025-30 time period; but if we chose nuclear propulsion for IAC-2 , it too will be delayed and would also come after 2025-30 time period.


Though design of AMCA has been frozen as an Airforce plane, I think it could be easily modified into CATOBAR plane in a year or so by employing Boeing as a counsultant.

So will India navy accept a plane where it's first flight won't be until 2025-2030 at earliest. I don't think AF AMCA would not get its IOC past 2030 and so a first flight for the naval version even at 2030 it's way too optimistic....

India need a more immediate solution than wait that long.
 
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You cannot put an Airforce plane on a ship and launch them from a carrier. An Naval fighter plane have to be specially designed so they can fit with carrier operation

They have to be folded wing, reinforced front gear for catapult, reinforced structure for carrier landing, tail hook, weight distribution for stowing and salt water treatment for ocean operation

Basically either you use existing fighter or you make one, its not as easy to convert as most people think here
 
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What do you think the propulsion system would be?

Hard to say at this point, since we don't know how the final design of the carrier will be and how much power is needed. All we know yet is, that it will be about the size of current Russian, Chinese and the coming British carrier and they all are conventional carriers. We will know more, when we are sure if we get catapults and what kind they will be.
 
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Dont know if it is a disease. It gives me goosebumps by merely looking at an aircraft carrier.. Be it of any Navy. Thats another reason why I love the Movie "Battle Ships" and especially the scene where the commanding officer says "I want Every Aircraft on this carrier up in Air NOW!!! "


:cheers: :man_in_love:
 
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IAC 2 INS Vishaal Project Accelerated

IAC 2 INS VISHAAL PROJECT ACCELERATED


A Fan Art of IAC 2 INS Vishaal


Propsed model of IAC 2 Shown in a Expo, see the E 2D launch

The Indian Navy Plans to Acclerate the INS vishaal Project which shelved and not being briefed several decades, The CCS approves the plan of Navy's 65,000 Ton aircraft carrier, with CATOBAR system running with Nuclear propulsion, when the BARC (Bharath Atomic Research Center ) Successfully installed the small nuclear reactor onboard INS Arihant which is working impressive, the Plan of Navy's surface warships with nuclear power is also raised. while CCS have already given the green Signal, Navy suddenly launch the design phase of the Aircraft carrier,

The Aircraft Carrier is in the final stage of design Phase, which can be unveiled upcoming days about the Actual Length and Tonnage, while CCS ( Cabinet Committee on Security ) didn't reveal the size of the Aircraft carrier, but some outside sources said the ship can be 65,000 tonnage and some 300 meters of Length, but these are just an assumption, the length may be increase or decrease and the size too, as of now the Indian Navy asked the American to supply the EMALS system to the Aircraft carrier which is slight improved from the Catapult launch, the pentagon too discussing supplying the EMALS ( Electromagnetic Assisted Aircraft launch System ) under the recently signed DTTI ( Defence Technology and Trade Initiative ).

As of now the Details are emerged and confirmed is the Flat top carrier only, whether the CATOBAR otherwise the EMALS if US agrees to supply. none of others have been declared until now, but assumptions are high starting from E 2 D analog to Indian next generation unmanned Combat vehicle AURA too, with the concern from China they building the second Aircraft carrier also third in Pipeline, India is also boosting it to met the Operational capability of 3 operational carriers, again problems in India we don't have a good Shipyard to handle such a big carrier for that we need to modernize one our Naval shipyard can able to build such huge carriers, the CSL built INS Vikranth is Just a 40,000 ton while the IAC 2 twice as the size of IAC 1.

The Armaments also in bigger questions, It's sure the Ship should employ some PMDS such as Barak 8 and ASW suite the RBU 6000, but still some doubts whether they carry some 8 or 16 LACM or Anti Shipping Missiles, The air Arm is also a Bigger doubts but can be predictable, no one can operate a Heli borne AEW platfrom when you have capable to launch Big AEWCS plane like E 2, so it's sure IAC 2 should have the American E 2 D, not only but more heavy Aircraft's should be on-board, in a recent expo in Russia reveals the Russian plan of Building Naval Variant of PAK FA. in case we too buy some PAK FA for the Navy such a wonderful news to hear operating such heavy 5th gen Fighter from the Aircraft, Questions raised when the carrier is an Ski Jump model, that's too hard to launch such a Heavy fighter, Russians have no plans to build such Flat top carriers, they are nowhere to see the CATOBAR operations, so it's be a wet dream. But intrstingly the Rafale M. Those Rafale M is the CATOBAR capable carrier based MRCA plane no modifications needed to be operate in EMALS systems. so we might be end with Rafale B, The Airforce Goes for Rafale F 3 I and Navy goes for Rafale M. if the deal was collapsed the final option is the Legendary F 18 tough the FMS (Forign Military Sale ) deal
And the Good news is The govt may start fund the Carrier project by Next Year and Before 2020 we can see a Heavy long foot Carrier in our waters.
 
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It is not the case the development of the N-FGFA will take time, if that were the case the IN could afford to wait a while because the N-FGFA would be easily the most capable and deadly carrier fighter in the world. But the issue the N-FGFA is likely to NEVER be developed because it simply can't operate from catapults making it incompatible with the IN's future carriers.



Yes I would suspect this. The IN needs to settle on a class of ACCs and start churning them out, once the IAC-2 is in service the IN will be operating 3 different carriers of 3 different classes which is far from ideal in terms of training, logistics and maintenance (although the level of commonality between the IAC-1 and IAC-2 class will be high).

So why not make FGFA Capable of taking off from catapult & apart from F-35 what options do we have?
 
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