India now puts aircraft carrier plan on fast track

[DeathInvader]

Yes. But for now you need another one to take care of the Indian ocean to keep the Chinese off. One career group each time patrolling the Indian ocean while the other career group getting maintain at ports.

We can't just order a refurbished AC in 3 years right? There is no point in ordering one as Vikrant will be ready in next two years. And It would be more than feasible for Indian Navy to learn and operate new home built carrier

 

[Nilesh Singh]

So the choices are Rafale-M, F-35C and F-18 "Silent Hornet", of these the F-35C is the only "next generation" option and thus, through the process of elimination, I would place my bets on this bird unfortunately.

Mate will F-35C will be bad option, i am saying in terms US famous for playing Sanction sanction..........
But i think US India relationship has reached to such a level where we should start looking for F-35c as this will give unparalleled advantage in Indian Ocean. Rest of 5th Gen fighter like AMCA and PAK-FA are no go as you have provided explanation on it.
@sancho , @Norwegian ,@levina ,@Echo_419 , @Abingdonboy what are your views.

 

[AugenBlick]

Mate will F-35C will be bad option, i am saying in terms US famous for playing Sanction sanction..........
But i think US India relationship has reached to such a level where we should start looking for F-35c as this will give unparalleled advantage in Indian Ocean. Rest of 5th Gen fighter like AMCA and PAK-FA are no go as you have provided explanation on it.
@sancho , @Norwegian ,@levina ,@Echo_419 , @Abingdonboy what are your views.

My understanding is that due the fact that EMALS uses electromagnetics , It can launch a variety of air crafts and we can easly come up with a version of a plane (Tejas/AMCA/FGFA) that can be launched from it.

 

[Srinivas]

Mate will F-35C will be bad option, i am saying in terms US famous for playing Sanction sanction..........
But i think US India relationship has reached to such a level where we should start looking for F-35c as this will give unparalleled advantage in Indian Ocean. Rest of 5th Gen fighter like AMCA and PAK-FA are no go as you have provided explanation on it.

You are correct, soon India will start manufacturing 4 LPDs or Helicopter carriers like that of Japanese. F 35 is a good option.

 

[vsdave2302]

Which aircraft are they planning for CATOBAR both the Mig-29k or the NLCA can't be used from it then. The only options are Rafale, F-35 or the F/A-18.

One russian scientist had admitted that they were able to imrove Mig 29 a lot because of Indian inputs. He also admitted that that they Improved Mig 35 a lot to get qulified for Indian MMRCA. I think that we should work on Mig 35 with cabon composite body and stealth like Super MKIs. By the time VIshal comes in, we should be able to Induct Super Mig 35.

 

[Nilesh Singh]

My understanding is that due the fact that EMALS uses electromagnetics , It can launch a variety of air crafts and we can easly come up with a version of a plane (Tejas/AMCA/FGFA) that can be launched from it.

Mate that's the major problem how can you depend upon HAL to provide fighters(Tejas/AMCA/FGFA) on time, say construction start from 2017 and we have INS Vishal by 2025-2026 currently both AMCA and FGFA are just paper planes we have no idea when the first prototype will fly and there is no mention of Naval variant till now, how in the world by 2026 these fighters will be ready. So we must have these F-35c as a backup and start making the AC if later we have naval variant of AMCA and FGFA ready it will be great plus for IN. Tejas for INS Vishal is just totally no go for obvious reason.
But putting all faith on HAL will be a disaster as there might be a situation where AC is ready and there are no Fighter to fly from it. Just my 2 cent.

 

[Echo_419]

One russian scientist had admitted that they were able to imrove Mig 29 a lot because of Indian inputs. He also admitted that that they Improved Mig 35 a lot to get qulified for Indian MMRCA. I think that we should work on Mig 35 with cabon composite body and stealth like Super MKIs. By the time VIshal comes in, we should be able to Induct Super Mig 35.

Better to go for naval FGFA & since Russians are planning to build more aircraft carrier they will certainly need a 5th fen naval fighter

 

[vsdave2302]

Better to go for naval FGFA & since Russians are planning to build more aircraft carrier they will certainly need a 5th fen naval fighter

India never prefer havy plane for career operation. This is the reason why Su 33 was not shortlisted. It should ether one engine light weight or at the most medium catagory. AMCA will do.

 

[AugenBlick]

Mate that's the major problem how can you depend upon HAL to provide fighters(Tejas/AMCA/FGFA) on time, say construction start from 2017 and we have INS Vishal by 2025-2026 currently both AMCA and FGFA are just paper planes we have no idea when the first prototype will fly and there is no mention of Naval variant till now, how in the world by 2026 these fighters will be ready. So we must have these F-35c as a backup and start making the AC if later we have naval variant of AMCA and FGFA ready it will be great plus for IN. Tejas for INS Vishal is just totally no go for obvious reason.
But putting all faith on HAL will be a disaster as there might be a situation where AC is ready and there are no Fighter to fly from it. Just my 2 cent.

Mate 2 things
a) I am saying that EMALS can carry a variable load. That means we do not need to have the EXACT design finalized for a plane to make it EMAL compatible.
e.g. Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Compared to steam catapults, EMALS can control the launch performance with greater precision, allowing it to launch more kinds of aircraft, from heavy fighter jets to light unmanned aircraft.

So for example , FGFA weights x tonns add say +/- 10 % weight variation for naval variant(this value we should have a good approximation of owing to our experience with NLCA) we have a major design parameter and can start designing the EMALS.

b)You say HAL can't deliver on time and sadly I agree . but we have to pull through ... we have to put pressure on these guys and make them perform .... No other choice sadly.

 

[Nilesh Singh]

Mate 2 things
a) I am saying that EMALS can carry a variable load. That means we do not need to have the EXACT design finalized for a plane to make it EMAL compatible.
e.g. Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So for example , FGFA weights x tonns add say +/- 10 % weight variation for naval variant(this value we should have a good approximation of owing to our experience with NLCA) we have a major design parameter and can start designing the EMALS.

b)You say HAL can't deliver on time and sadly I agree . but we have to pull through ... we have to put pressure on these guys and make them perform .... No other choice sadly.

Exact design what i am referring is Naval variant, till now only air force variant design is being done so, currently we even don't know Naval variant will be made or not ,there is big question mark on it as well.

HAL and timeline don't go hand in hand, its better to have F-35C as a back then be in a situation with a carrier but no fighter.

 

[AMCA]

Exact design what i am referring is Naval variant, till now only air force variant design is being done so, currently we even don't know Naval variant will be made or not ,there is big question mark on it as well.

HAL and timeline don't go hand in hand, its better to have F-35C as a back then be in a situation with a carrier but no fighter.

We'll put Tejas as a STOP GAP arrangement on a Nuclear propelled , EMAL supported carrier.. Lol.. I cant even imagine how stupid that would look..

 

[sancho]

Mate will F-35C will be bad option, i am saying in terms US famous for playing Sanction sanction..........
But i think US India relationship has reached to such a level where we should start looking for F-35c as this will give unparalleled advantage in Indian Ocean. Rest of 5th Gen fighter like AMCA and PAK-FA are no go as you have provided explanation on it.

It's not about sanctions only, but about operational limitations US aircrafts mean for our forces!

The F35 would come with an US "export" AESA, avionics and weapon pack that we neither can modify nor customize. We know that US arms will come with end user monitoring restictions, we know that they try to demand how their arms and techs will be used, we know that the F35 can be maintained only at specific locations (Japan or Italy) and that upgrade of systems will be dependent on US government approval, we know that the "export" weapon pack the US allows India, might be better than what they allow Pakistan, but still is far inferior to what we can have from Europeans, let alone what FGFA offers (Nirbhay, Brahmos M, Kh58, Kh35) and these restrictions wouldn't be limited to the fighters only!
The E-2D coupled with a catapult system is surely the best choice for carrier based long range AWACS capability as a platform, but it's an US radar system, that comes with no possibility to modify or upgrade it as we want, even if we have better systems available.
All this makes IN operationally completely dependent on the US, if they go for F35 / F18SH + E-2D, if they let themselfs blind by getting CATOBAR carriers. Catapults are important for our future carrier, but IN must be able to remain independent and not just to divert the dependance on Russians today, to dependance on the US in future. If they go for US catapults, they have to focus on getting independent aircrafts as alternatives, be it N-FGFA, or an AMCA that is developed for catapult operations (which DRDO is completely ignoring at the moment) and ideally an AWACS with a DRDO radar.

 

[About.to.be.banned]

So the choices are Rafale-M, F-35C and F-18 "Silent Hornet", of these the F-35C is the only "next generation" option and thus, through the process of elimination, I would place my bets on this bird unfortunately.

What is wrong with Silent Hornet?

Though i could not be sure, but I think a Hornet with good Jammers or accompanied with E/A-18 could be more potent than limbering F-35 depending solely on stealth, something which may not be as invincible as it sounded a decade ago.

If and when radars capable of detecting an Stealth aircraft develops, F-35 would suffer most among all other (probably barring Chinese) as it's aerodynamic capability is poor compared to other stealth aircrafts.


+ We may get better deal on Silent Hornet from 'Muricans. Less restrictions + better ToT (sanction proofing it partially).

 

[GURU DUTT]

what i bealve is that if USA is giving india the "real technikal help" then i guess there will be more than one neuklear powere Vishal type ACs with EMALS and the fighter for it will be none other than F35

 

[About.to.be.banned]

On solution to this condurum of which Aircraft to field from IAC-2 could be solved by developing AMCA as a CATOBAR figter from start.

Granted that in keeping with historical precedence, DRDO would miss deadlines and this Aircraft would not fly before 2025-30 time period; but if we chose nuclear propulsion for IAC-2 , it too will be delayed and would also come after 2025-30 time period.


Though design of AMCA has been frozen as an Airforce plane, I think it could be easily modified into CATOBAR plane in a year or so by employing Boeing as a counsultant.