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India Needs to Join Asia's Emerging 'Chinese Order'

Ego.

All said and done,this is the reason why India doesn't and most probably will never accept to be part of any world or regional order where it is not the top dog,including a Chinese centered one.The indians ever since the birth of their nation had this amazing and rather naive idea, that they must be treated equal to every other country and power in the world including superpowers in every way imaginable.The fact that in reality,everyone is treated on the basis of their power and might is irrelevant when it concerns them as the under-dog.
 
If CIA trained terrorists, does it make it right? What is your point?

You started by asking rational questions -- but now you are asking India to "get over" your indiscretion handling Pakistani terror mechanism?

You are only proving what was too obvious for anyone else that China can never have friendly relationship with India. It simply doesn't serve their interests to abandon anti-India elements!!

no it doesn't, but what im trying to say is even if it is true, we can get over many things India has done, Why cant India??
I think India media has portrayed China as the oppressor for so many years, it is hard to change the mind of the people,
Look at Russia China relation since 1991, when soviet came to Beijing to sign the boarder agreement, it gave up lots of land that had been under soviet control, is it because USSR was weaker than China? NO! what about the soldiers died in the boarder clash? they died for nothing!

US dropped nukes in Japan, shouldn't Japanese hate them? So did Germany invade Russia and killed a million Russians, they are the biggest trading partner now. I meant what I said, GET OVER IT.
i just think it benefit India as much if not more, for its normal relationship with China. China and Pakistan is just India's very first enemies, but India will soon realized the true enemy is not China or Pakistan.
 
There are tons of sources from the US and UK that Pakistani spies in the West were the main reason the bomb came to be in Pakistan. I won't say China never played a part, that's hard to prove, but it's not a major one.

No nation on earth would transfer nuclear technology of the kind you are suggesting.

The debate is not whether you played a major part or a minor part. The only thing we know for sure if that you PLAYED your part -- just as you admitted!

Second, you deliver nukes to Philippines or Myanmar or Vietnam and the US will sanction you back to the stone age.

Which leads me back to the first point. The US didn't even flinch at Pakistan with the Bomb, when they made a big deal even when India got the bomb. We were not on the friendliest terms then, why would they not sanction us.

Did I touch a raw nerve there when I asked a question, how would China feel if India PLAYED a minor role in helping Vietnam/Philippines secure a Nuclear bomb for themselves? Mind you, I didn't advocate should do it, I only asked how you would feel!

If you had gone through the thread, you would have realized that I blamed US equally for "looking the other way" when Pakistanis smuggled "materials" right under their noses! We understand China and US both have been neck-deep in helping their ally secure the BOMB which has a delivery address nowhere else but to India.

Again this is just the typical crap that some people like to use, rogue, crazy, extremist. Everyone else is the problem except you.

Pakistan's got problems, I'll give you that, but to suggest Pakistani government and military are filled with nut jobs is frankly weird.

But then again, one of the top stories this year in India is how China is rogue because we are not a democracy, so I'm not surprised.

Did you go through the link that I quoted earlier? Here it is, for you:
No bird will chirp, and no bells will ring in Mandirs in India : Sheikh Rasheed.

It is a mainstream Pakistani politician threatening India with what can only be described as Nuclear Holocaust. I wonder why he mentioned "temples" specifically! Mind you, he is not a nobody in Pakistani Politician. This guy regularly shares stage with their most popular Politcian Imran Khan. Anyway, he is not the first or the last Pakistani Politician to indulge in this kind of diatribe!

We did condemn the attacks.

What Pakistan does is up to them, and let's not pretend that India is innocent in this, despite what China is doing in the China seas, why do we not get fired on.

Of course you condemned the attacks! But then, you went ahead anyway to block the sanctions on those known terrorists. Mind you, the reports say you did that 3 times earlier in the past as well.

Now, I would love to see you point anything India might have done on the lines of Mumbai attacks!!

Some of our members may have some problems, yes, their comments maybe cruel and unnecessary, but they are not far from facts. Mostly because poverty and the side effects of it are very easily confirmed.

There are trolls with the soul aim to troll India even with user-id's and their signatures! Again, what people on Internet do hardly bother nations. It was only in response to another member who wanted to know why we were confrontational!

There is no bad blood there, most Chinese in China, don't care about India much. You think we are anti India, get over yourself, China is all hands on deck to take on the reigning super power, not India.

You provide Nuclear weapons to our enemy country, shoot down sanctions against their terrorists in UN that continue to harm us and then advocate that there is no bad blood? Are you for real?

From all this interaction with Indian members here and all I can say is no wonder you are still so poor. Business is business, if you can't see that, then, what can I tell you.

Yeah, right!! Genius, that is exactly why we continue to have trade worth $100B with you (the trade where you continue to run surpluses).

But you turned a blind eye on the whole trade that takes between India and China despite the hostilities -- just to make your point sound better?

So, now you are you talking about Indians being so poor? Get off your high horse!! Although you have achieved a lot in the last couple of decades, you are not there YET!! Let's talk about it when you get THERE!!
 
no it doesn't, but what im trying to say is even if it is true, we can get over many things India has done, Why cant India??
I think India media has portrayed China as the oppressor for so many years, it is hard to change the mind of the people,
Look at Russia China relation since 1991, when soviet came to Beijing to sign the boarder agreement, it gave up lots of land that had been under soviet control, is it because USSR was weaker than China? NO! what about the soldiers died in the boarder clash? they died for nothing!

US dropped nukes in Japan, shouldn't Japanese hate them? So did Germany invade Russia and killed a million Russians, they are the biggest trading partner now. I meant what I said, GET OVER IT.
i just think it benefit India as much if not more, for its normal relationship with China. China and Pakistan is just India's very first enemies, but India will soon realized the true enemy is not China or Pakistan.

My whole point was that -- even if you forget all the past favors that China did to India (providing Nuclear weapons to Pakistan, supporting terror et al), there is no reason to believe that future will be rosy! If anything, the competition is only going to get intense -- given that India and China will be competing for the same resources and influence due to their similarities in size and hunger for resources!

Stop making assumptions that Indians hate China mainly because of the wrong media portrayals! If anything, vast majority of Indians don't get time to think or learn about China.

India and China already have a trade which is in excess of $100B despite the uneasiness. I think you are deliberately ignoring my point that China will continue to keep the border issues alive and force India's focus away from its economy. That is the most logical explanation for what PLA did at Indian border when Chinese President visited India!

Afterall, why would China want a competitor at its border to get stronger economically?
 
As such India does not consider China and its people,culture and civilization as any issue with us...We do not have any cultural issues as such beween the people...China claims some part of India as theirs, and same way India claims from China...And above all, China supports all the anti Indian things on international foroum and support Pakistan...And that is how the trust deficit is their between ours and China.

Who harbor Tibetans slave owners in 1959 and still provide sanctuary for Dalai Lama.
 
India possess nuke why cry about how Pakistan acquire nuke for themselves.
 
The debate is not whether you played a major part or a minor part. The only thing we know for sure if that you PLAYED your part -- just as you admitted!

I admitted? How could I do that, I don't work for any government agencies.

The role China played if at all is negligible, if you read anything released by the CIA or any other American or British source, it is the Pakistani scientist in UK that stole the secrets and came back and built it.

Forgot his name.

There were no mention of a Chinese role.


Did I touch a raw nerve there when I asked a question, how would China feel if India PLAYED a minor role in helping Vietnam/Philippines secure a Nuclear bomb for themselves? Mind you, I didn't advocate should do it, I only asked how you would feel!

If you had gone through the thread, you would have realized that I blamed US equally for "looking the other way" when Pakistanis smuggled "materials" right under their noses! We understand China and US both have been neck-deep in helping their ally secure the BOMB which has a delivery address nowhere else but to India.

You are blaming us for being an ally during the bomb, could we blame Russia for India's bomb? I mean they were your ally.

I don't care what you would do with the bomb, just that in today's environment, India would sooner nuke itself than to pass nuclear secrets to other states.

America is not joking when they said nuclear weapons secrets must be guarded.

Did you go through the link that I quoted earlier? Here it is, for you:
No bird will chirp, and no bells will ring in Mandirs in India : Sheikh Rasheed.

It is a mainstream Pakistani politician threatening India with what can only be described as Nuclear Holocaust. I wonder why he mentioned "temples" specifically! Mind you, he is not a nobody in Pakistani Politician. This guy regularly shares stage with their most popular Politcian Imran Khan. Anyway, he is not the first or the last Pakistani Politician to indulge in this kind of diatribe!

Don't you guys have that Sharma or something that 70 year old dude that keep talking bullcrap and isn't he one of the leaders of BJP or a former version of it.

Did he say he wants to cut Pakistan in half.

Then we got a thread a few days ago on how India needs to defeat China to take back territory from a leading member of the government, home minister or something.

If we are to go through all the crazy crap Indian government has said over the years, you would look just as insane, but Pakistan due to its proximity to Middle east and terrorism, gets more attention.

Of course you condemned the attacks! But then, you went ahead anyway to block the sanctions on those known terrorists. Mind you, the reports say you did that 3 times earlier in the past as well.

Now, I would love to see you point anything India might have done on the lines of Mumbai attacks!!

Pakistan and India have gone to war, and had border wars more times than I can count. I'm not saying India provoked it or deserved it, but it is what it is. It's not from nowhere.

As to UN resolutions, all great powers shield their allies, that's how it works. We also shield NK, you think we don't know what they are doing.

You think America don't know what Egypt, Lybia and any of their other crackpot allies are doing in the world.

That's how the game is played.

Don't hate the player hate the game.

There are trolls with the soul aim to troll India even with user-id's and their signatures! Again, what people on Internet do hardly bother nations. It was only in response to another member who wanted to know why we were confrontational!

You have been on this forum for sometime, as have I, I can't remember who fired the first shot, but again you are blaming us and not looking at yourself.

Nobody knows who started it, but at this point does it matter.

You provide Nuclear weapons to our enemy country, shoot down sanctions against their terrorists in UN that continue to harm us and then advocate that there is no bad blood? Are you for real?

By that logic, there's bad blood between China and Russia, China and US, China. However China and russia are good right now, and China and US are working together in many issues, including Ebola, environment, Middle East, Africa and other issues.

The nuclear thing is unconfirmed at best, and the other things are just part of the great game. It is what it is.

Yeah, right!! Genius, that is exactly why we continue to have trade worth $100B with you (the trade where you continue to run surpluses).

But you turned a blind eye on the whole trade that takes between India and China despite the hostilities -- just to make your point sound better?

Even Indian authors admitted India was reluctant on more Chinese involvement in India and South Asia in general, which reduced investment from 100 billion to 20 billion.

This is especially true to the link from China through Myanmar and Bangladesh to India. That was a major part of the plan but due to Indian "security" issues it was scrapped and we never brought it on the table.

As to surplus, this isn't good anymore for us, the Surplus is too large for us, and China has way less red tape than India, the only reason India isn't running a surplus is because you can't. A lot of lower income countries are starting to run surpluses or close to now.

The trade between China and India is important, but then that's in spite of not because of. If you had given us access and a fair shot, which we would reciprocate if not already, we have way more investment in India.

So, now you are you talking about Indians being so poor? Get off your high horse!! Although you have achieved a lot in the last couple of decades, you are not there YET!! Let's talk about it when you get THERE!!

We are far closer to being there than not being there. Besides, this isn't about india being poor, it's about you guys fussing over this "security" crap, ok if you want you can build it yourself and help everyone but you are not doing anything yourself either, so now you are just in everyone's way.
 
I never said India wants China as her enemy! Not only is it foolish to want China as a enemy, but also that India simply can't afford to declare open hostilities against China. I was only stating the obvious that the actions of Chinese continue to undermine India's strategic interests in a major way and has acted only as a HOSTILE entity to Indian interests!!

I am afraid, nothing short of making major territorial concessions to China, will make it friendly with India. Even that is not a guarantee of friendly relationship! For any sovereign state, territorial integrity is important and for India, it is even more vital to preserve its territorial integrity after one painful bifurcation already! I don't see India giving away the territories voluntarily any time soon!

More importantly, considering the fact that China and India, both being similar in size and appetite, are destined to compete for the same dwindling resources world-over, I don't see how China and India can ever become friendly!
Maybe being friendly is impossible,because India still consider China as her first rival .And we have much problems nowadays,such as border disputes,Tibetan government-in-exile ,India' refusing one-China pilicy.
But we can take business cooperations firstly,if it benefit both countries,why not?China never want another war,too.A friend more is much better than an enemy.We can help your "Made in India" plan and it will help China improve our site on global value chain.Infrastructure contruction can be considered,too.
If India choose to close door until this round investment and development finishing,what will left for you?Catching opportunity or keeping poverty.Even Australia,Korea,Japan,Russia,America,Euro rush to shake hand with Chinese business opportunity,why India still keep arrogant?
Plz dont take grandiose aims with puny abilities.
 
India possess nuke why cry about how Pakistan acquire nuke for themselves.

I guess even Indians wouldn't have problem with Pakistani bombs if Pakistani generals/politicians didn't declare Nuclear Holocaust on India at the drop of a hat!

If Pakistan without nuke, India can claim a total domination of South Asia :coffee:

So, you are policing South Asia now? Even if India did, how is different from what China is doing in SCS?
 
Yeah!! Compare a Nobel Laureate Dalai Lama with a religious extremist and a bigot like Hafeez Saeed!
He and tibetan upper classes were slave owners,just as he is a nobel laureate.It is a historical fact and a feature in almost all areas and people under tibetan sphere of influence or ethnicities closely related to tibetans
 
India' refusing one-China pilicy.

Why don't you stop stapling VISAs issued to Indian citizens residing in Arunachal Pradesh? If you don't have the heart to accept One-India policy, what right do you have to ask India to accept One-China policy?

But we can take business cooperations firstly,if it benefit both countries,why not?China never want another war,too.A friend more is much better than an enemy.We can help your "Made in India" plan and it will help China improve our site on global value chain.Infrastructure contruction can be considered,too.

If India choose to close door until this round investment and development finishing,what will left for you?Catching opportunity or keeping poverty.Even Australia,Korea,Japan,Russia,America,Euro rush to shake hand with Chinese business opportunity,why India still keep arrogant?

Listen mate, you are preaching the choir here. Who in their right mind refuses investment? It is not about your investments, it about unnecessary border flare-ups. It is about your support to terror groups in Pakistan! It all counts to nothing if you help Pakistan get Nuclear bombs and then come to India to invest a couple of billions!

Just take a look around PDF and tell me who is arrogant here! You guys always preach "talk less, do more". What you do here is exactly the opposite! Have you looked yourself in the mirror?

Plz dont take grandiose aims with puny abilities.

Are you insane? Did India speak about her grandiose aims? How is this relevant to topic at hand?

If anything, I can argue that some Chinese members here already think that they have achieved so much that they can ridicule India about its poverty!
 

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