India Must Make Peace With Pakistan to Stop Terrorism

[ice_man]

Are you trying to suggest us to believe on ZH type Conspiracy theories? Sorry we refute...

yes we accept we had security flaws as and we are as repsonsible as these terrorists were for such terror attacks.. But what Karkare, Kamte and other martyred people did that time being part of ATS.. that was the way it has to be done..They martyred its our loss..

just a question in hindu culture what is the definition if any of "martyrdom" and what happens when one attains it? for knowledge regardless of what is being discussed on this thread....

 

[Pride]

just a question in hindu culture what is the definition if any of "martyrdom" and what happens when one attains it? for knowledge regardless of what is being discussed on this thread....

Well you can't say its Hindu culture as it becomes religious type but yes according to Indian culture if a person gets martyrdom then he became "Immortal" (Amar in Hindi) to say that his name will always be remembered till a nation stays and He will go to "Heaven" as he performed prime duty of serving his nation... And I think the same applies for any martyr in the world.. May be you can add something in to that...

 

[ajpirzada]

You know that I was talking about the US evidence against Asif. Why you are misquoteing.

wat US evidence? statement u mean? read the article below which i have posted. now do u expect me to ignore all this just bec US said something? there were also WMDs in iraq if u remember.

Which witness you are talking about? Samjhota Blast witness? Are you sure?
The link to purohit was RDX that he procured for malegaon blast. SE blast did not used RDX.
And the news item that you quoted, where does it says anything about linking Purohit with SE blast.

read this following:

Purohit supplied RDX for Samjhauta bomb: ATS

Mustafa Plumber & Anubhuti Vishnoi
Nashik , New Delhi November 15 The Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) suspects that Lt Col Prasad Purohit supplied the RDX that was used in the Samjhauta Express blast on February 18, 2007 that killed 68 passengers.

The ATS suspects Purohit supplied the explosive to a person named ‘Bhagwan’ who is believed to be a link in the bomb blasts.

Seeking an extension of police custody of Purohit, Special Prosecutor for Maharashtra ATS Ajay Misar told a Nashik court that a witness in the Malegaon blast case told the agency that Purohit had claimed he had 60 kg of RDX in his possession which he had got from J&K.

Misar said: “When Purohit was stationed at the Deolali army camp, he had gone to Jammu and Kashmir on official work and is believed to have got 60 kg of RDX and a part of it was given to this link ‘Bhagwan’, who used it in the Samjhauta train blast. The ATS is probing his involvement.”

“Purohit handed over the RDX to Bhagwan who is suspected to be in hiding in the garb of a godman. So Bhagwan is a key link and we hope to learn about his whereabouts and antecedents in the three-day remand given,” Misar told The Indian Express.

The ATS also said that Purohit—along with Pragya Thakur and Dayanand Pandey—is suspected to have played a key role not only in the Malegaon blast of September 29 but in other blasts as well.

The witness, whose statement had been recorded, had said that Purohit showed him two small brown bags containing RDX, which he said he had recovered from J&K, Misar added.

However, Purohit in his statement to the ATS said that he had thrown the 60 kg of RDX into the Jhelum river instead of depositing it in the army depot.

The ATS is also probing the role of a Nashik-based builder who was paid Rs 2.5 lakh by Ajay Rahirkar at the behest of Purohit. The police have already said that funds amounting to lakhs were routed to Rahirkar through hawala channels. Rahirkar, in turn, transferred part of it to Pandey and Purohit’s accounts.

The Haryana police probing the Samjhauta blast (which happened in Panipat in Haryana) are now counting on finding new clues when they get to question Mahant Amritanand alias Dayanand Pandey on Sunday.

The Samjhauta probe trail had reached a dead-end in Indore, but the initial line of investigations was very SIMI-centric as several SIMI leaders including Safdar Nagori came from that area.

Madhya Pradesh police officials involved in the probe last year said that when a SIMI connection failed to emerge, suggestions were made to examine the possible involvement of Hindu right wing groups, but it was not taken up then. Haryana police confirmed the SIMI angle was ruled out after investigations.

A mix of high- and low-intensity explosives was used in the blast on the Indo-Pak friendship train which killed 68 — 42 of them Pakistanis. While a larger quantity of Potassium Chlorate and Sulphur were used to create the bomb, minor quantities of RDX were also found in the bomb, Dr. R K Koshal, ballistic expert from Haryana’s Forensic Science Laboratory confirmed. The use of RDX in ‘traces’ was also seen in explosives used in Mecca Masjid blast in Hyderabad in May 2007 and also in the Malegaon blast.

“There was RDX in traces in the suitcase bomb on the Samjhauta Express and that much was enough for the blast mechanism,” said Kaushal.

ADG Haryana V N Rai who is heading the Samjhauta blast probe, however, said that there is still no major breakthrough in the investigation.”We are closely monitoring the situation and are in touch with Mumbai ATS. Our probe status still stands at Indore”, Rai said.

The bombers had purchased the suitcases from Indore’s Kothari market. Investigations had found that the ‘Kodak’ brand suitcases used in the explosion on the train were purchased from the Abhinandan Bag Centre in Kothari Market while a tailor who sat opposite the bag centre stitched the suitcase covers. That apart, the pipe-bomb shells, Super Saurabh plastic boxes in which the IED was packed were also bought from the same area. Two of the accused in the Malegaon blasts are from Indore.

Purohit supplied RDX for Samjhauta bomb: ATS - Express India

What happened when there was dialogue. We were attacked numerous time. Mumbai was not first. We had more than 4-5 blast in 2-3 years prior to 26/11. That didn;t stopped LeT. Only we didn't have any evidence for those. And PK never showed willingness to curb LeT during that time. 26/11 was on unprecedented level. We had evidence.

lolz. 'only we didn't have any evidence for those'
this statement of urs says it all. no evidence. and if u are not forgetting india has its own insurgency problem as well. so dont dump all terrorist activities in india on us. we will be grateful

For inflitration, you are saying that look I was creating trouble. Once you started talking there were less trouble for you. Well I call this blackmailing sir. Then sire, I am not interested in talking. I don't like giving in to blackmailers. There demands will never end.

you are only putting words into my mouth. i never said that. wat i said is that no dialogue gives a gud reason to organisation like LeT to attract youth using ur atrocities in kashmir as a tool. similarly in india, no talks strengthens the hand of hindu extremist groups who hold anti pakistan views. its a very logical statement. if reasoning is known as blackmailing in ur world then im ready to accept it lik that.

as far as you referring to a.dagha. well he is only questioning the loop holes in your stories. if u can fill in those loop holes, he will not ask you such questions. just calling wat he says a conspiracy theory will not be useful and is only an easy way out. you can always debate with him.

 

[prodevelopment]

so dont dump all terrorist activities in india on us. we will be grateful

India does NOT blame ALL Pakistani Citizen for attacks in its territories. However, we do blame SOME Citizen like the LeT.

Please refrain from using the word 'us' and bunching yourself with them.

you are only putting words into my mouth. i never said that. wat i said is that no dialogue gives a gud reason to organisation like LeT to attract youth using ur atrocities in kashmir as a tool. similarly in india, no talks strengthens the hand of hindu extremist groups who hold anti pakistan views. its a very logical statement. if reasoning is known as blackmailing in ur world then im ready to accept it lik that.

Of course ' a situation of no dialogue' gives a good reason for organisations like LeT to attract youth. However, it is for the responsible citizen of Pakistan to guide its youth.

You cannot expect to give moral support to LeT, yet say you are sincere for discussions with India. India is just calling a spade a spade in that regard. The time has come for ordinary citizen of Pakistan to stop playing this diplomatic double game and make up their mind who they support.

 

[HariSeldon]

wat US evidence? statement u mean? read the article below which i have posted. now do u expect me to ignore all this just bec US said something? there were also WMDs in iraq if u remember.

Do you want me to believe that based on US statement UN issued the directive and rest of the world followed? Are you serious?
You need to provide the supporting evidence.
You are weakening your case. UN never bought the US WMD theory. It never approved the attack. But UN accepted US stand on Asif and his link with SE blast.
As member of UN, you have to comply with the directive which is involving him in terrorist activity. Instead of questioning the directive GoP accepted it.
I have repeated many times. If your citizen was not involved why GoP has not raised it with UN. Why they accepted it quitely? If World has accepted somebody as the part of SE blast conspiracy, then your raising the investigation against Purohit is nothing but tactic to avoid the discussion. And if you really believe Purohit might be culprit, then help Asif get clean chit. It will only strenthen your case. Till then its PK citizen which World see as part of conspiracy.

read this following:
Purohit supplied RDX for Samjhauta bomb: ATS

Mustafa Plumber & Anubhuti Vishnoi
Nashik , New Delhi November 15 The Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) suspects that Lt Col Prasad Purohit supplied the RDX that was used in the Samjhauta Express blast on February 18, 2007 that killed 68 passengers.

What to read in this?
This is what I said

Which witness you are talking about? Samjhota Blast witness? Are you sure?
The link to purohit was RDX that he procured for malegaon blast. SE blast did not used RDX.
And the news item that you quoted, where does it says anything about linking Purohit with SE blast.

And you news article confirms what I have said. From the same article

The witness, whose statement had been recorded, had said that Purohit showed him two small brown bags containing RDX, which he said he had recovered from J&K, Misar added.

I will repeat myself again. Witness asw Purohit was in possesion of RDX. And SE blast did not used RDX. So what are you saying??

lolz. 'only we didn't have any evidence for those'
this statement of urs says it all. no evidence. and if u are not forgetting india has its own insurgency problem as well. so dont dump all terrorist activities in india on us. we will be grateful

What about 26/11. It happened when CS was going on. It didn't stopped terrorism in IN. GoP has not shown interest in pursuing the leads. So why should we talk to PK when we are attacked in both cases.

you are only putting words into my mouth. i never said that. wat i said is that no dialogue gives a gud reason to organisation like LeT to attract youth using ur atrocities in kashmir as a tool.

They are able to recruit because they are allowed to operate.
And attacks on IN didn't stopped when we were talking. So for us it didn't matter. LeT will try to carry out terrorism in IN whether we talk or not. And GoP will not restrain them whether we talk or not. For GoI, talk are as good as even if we are not talking.
If I put my black hat, I can argue that org like LeT is radicalizing the PK society. The youth which can be used for developement of PK is getting brainwashed. Sometime it cause harm to IN, most time they are either cannon-fodder or trouble for PK itself. We have been able to contain the damage. Let carry on like this.

similarly in india, no talks strengthens the hand of hindu extremist groups who hold anti pakistan views. its a very logical statement. if reasoning is known as blackmailing in ur world then im ready to accept it lik that.

Pls."Strawman" hah...Where does you see "hindu extremist groups" or even "hindu extremist groups" causing trouble to PK? Can you name some of those group causing trouble to PK. And please don't drag Purohit etc in this as World believe that PK citizen has something to do with SE blast and GoP is not defending his own citizen. Except that PK has nothing to do with these "groups" as they are not causing any trouble for PK.

as far as you referring to a.dagha. well he is only questioning the loop holes in your stories. if u can fill in those loop holes, he will not ask you such questions. just calling wat he says a conspiracy theory will not be useful and is only an easy way out. you can always debate with him.

naaaa...why would I? He has to go to blog sites to question what happened that night. He does not reasoned that why PK mainstream media is not raising the same question?
When he does not believe his own media, then what can I debate with him.

 

[Abhiras]

just a question in hindu culture what is the definition if any of "martyrdom" and what happens when one attains it? for knowledge regardless of what is being discussed on this thread....

Either being slain you will attain the heavenly worlds or by gaining victory you will enjoy the earthly kingdom; therefore O Arjuna, rise up and fight..
.
.
.Lord Krishna to Arjun

 

[ajpirzada]

India does NOT blame ALL Pakistani Citizen for attacks in its territories. However, we do blame SOME Citizen like the LeT.

Please refrain from using the word 'us' and bunching yourself with them.

fair enough.

Of course ' a situation of no dialogue' gives a good reason for organisations like LeT to attract youth. However, it is for the responsible citizen of Pakistan to guide its youth.

and LeT does not comprise of all the youth in pakistan but only few. and one cannot stop few from doing wat they want.

You cannot expect to give moral support to LeT, yet say you are sincere for discussions with India. India is just calling a spade a spade in that regard. The time has come for ordinary citizen of Pakistan to stop playing this diplomatic double game and make up their mind who they support.

and i have got no clue of wat u are saying

 

[ajpirzada]

Do you want me to believe that based on US statement UN issued the directive and rest of the world followed? Are you serious?

wat im saying is that its no big deal for veto countries to influence UN.

You need to provide the supporting evidence.

just like US needs to give evidence for wat they claim. oh we remember all the evidence they had when attacking iraq.

You are weakening your case. UN never bought the US WMD theory. It never approved the attack. But UN accepted US stand on Asif and his link with SE blast.

arif = iraq war? can u see the magnitude of both?

What to read in this?
This is what I said

And you news article confirms what I have said. From the same article

I will repeat myself again. Witness asw Purohit was in possesion of RDX. And SE blast did not used RDX. So what are you saying??

there is everything to read in that article. that is wat ur ATS was saying when carrying their investigation but i guess you dont believe them? and i have said many times that dont expect a witness to differentiate bw what type of material is being used.

What about 26/11. It happened when CS was going on. It didn't stopped terrorism in IN. GoP has not shown interest in pursuing the leads. So why should we talk to PK when we are attacked in both cases.

wat follow the leads? courts are hearing the case and they will decide on wat evidence has been provided by you.
and you cant let one incident hijack the fate of 1.3 bn ppl. just lik we did not put an end to composite dialogue after sumjhota blast.

They are able to recruit because they are allowed to operate.
And attacks on IN didn't stopped when we were talking. So for us it didn't matter. LeT will try to carry out terrorism in IN whether we talk or not. And GoP will not restrain them whether we talk or not. For GoI, talk are as good as even if we are not talking.
If I put my black hat, I can argue that org like LeT is radicalizing the PK society. The youth which can be used for developement of PK is getting brainwashed. Sometime it cause harm to IN, most time they are either cannon-fodder or trouble for PK itself. We have been able to contain the damage. Let carry on like this.

which attacks are happening in india while we are talking? moist? naxals? and many others.
and dont worry too much about pakistani youth.

Pls."Strawman" hah...Where does you see "hindu extremist groups" or even "hindu extremist groups" causing trouble to PK? Can you name some of those group causing trouble to PK.

amazing. i didnt know you cant read. i said anti pak views which they propagate openly.

And please don't drag Purohit etc in this as World believe that PK citizen has something to do with SE blast and GoP is not defending his own citizen. Except that PK has nothing to do with these "groups" as they are not causing any trouble for PK.

but ur ATS believes in something else. if wat u say is true then should i say all the investigation done by india on mumbai attacks is flawed?

 

[civilarmy]

india apnay under k terrorism ko stop nahi kersakta toh pakistan k saat mil ker khaak stop karay ga lol.

 

[HariSeldon]

wat im saying is that its no big deal for veto countries to influence UN.

Veto comes into play when you want to block the resolution, not trying to get it passed\approved. So CN has veto power and would have come to PK's rescue and blocked the directive. It didn't do that.

just like US needs to give evidence for wat they claim. oh we remember all the evidence they had when attacking iraq.

As I said earlier, US was forced to withdraw the resolution because lack of evidence. With Arif they were able to carry through. I wonder why?

arif = iraq war? can u see the magnitude of both?

Last I checked rules are not based on magnitude.

there is everything to read in that article. that is wat ur ATS was saying when carrying their investigation but i guess you dont believe them? and i have said many times that dont expect a witness to differentiate bw what type of material is being used.

Ok witness is not able to differntiate between type of explosive. So? How did all this tie back to SE blast. Witness saw Purohit with explosive. There was blast in SE. Witness has nothing to do with SE blast. How these 2 things tie together?

wat follow the leads? courts are hearing the case and they will decide on wat evidence has been provided by you.
and you cant let one incident hijack the fate of 1.3 bn ppl. just lik we did not put an end to composite dialogue after sumjhota blast.

Read this thread
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...es/54666-abhinav-bharat-base-terrorism-2.html
post from fateh71 has clarified that before the death of ATS chief in 26/11, his team clarified that they are not linking Purohit with SE blast. (Read post 23)
Now its time for me to think why you carried on with CD after SE blast? Does you decision maker were informed that this is handiwork of there own citizen and org based in PK?

which attacks are happening in india while we are talking? moist? naxals? and many others.

You know very well I am taking about 26/11. I am thinking why this remark? Are you getting the feeling that you have lost the argument?

and dont worry too much about pakistani youth.

If you read carefully enough, Its lack of worry in IN in my black hat remarks.

amazing. i didnt know you cant read. i said anti pak views which they propagate openly.

And so? How does it equate with org like LeT who are killing our citizen? I think all ppl will agree that airing your view and killing somebody is different league.

but ur ATS believes in something else. if wat u say is true then should i say all the investigation done by india on mumbai attacks is flawed?

Read the link given above. Before the death of ATS chief, team under his leadership has clarified that they are not linking Purohit with SE blast.

Its clear now that before his death, ATS chief has delinked the purohit with SE blast.
Till the time you cann't explain why GoP is accepting UN directive against Arif, I will take a bow from this discussion.

 

[yashchauhan]

just a question in hindu culture what is the definition if any of "martyrdom" and what happens when one attains it? for knowledge regardless of what is being discussed on this thread....

According to Hinduism there nothing like this........its not about killilng or get killed for any purpose.......its about oneself.......about the prime deity(allah,brahma or god)

 

[ice_man]

According to Hinduism there nothing like this........its not about killilng or get killed for any purpose.......its about oneself.......about the prime deity(allah,brahma or god)
YouTube - Mortal world it is

thank you all my indian friends for clearing a concept that i didn't know much about!

 

[harish]

Just when you feel that you've seen and heard everything, an article such as this comes along and forces you to re-plumb the depths of human absurdity. I do not know Mr. Faiz Lalani personally, but he sounds much like the scrawny little kid always picked on by the school bully. Unhappily for us it doesn't end there. Where the article starts stretching the envelope of credulousness is when the same kid assumes that he can simultaneously keep fingering the big bad bully as well as escape his wrath when the time for reprisal comes by pontificating to the bully that it is in his best interest to make peace with him instead. Rather than trying to change the course of a truant river, he is questioning the inevitability of the tide itself. I sincerely hope for Pakistan's sake that this illusion is not shared by the state.

 

[frodo]

well in my view "martyrdom" is not specific to Hinduism. It is common definition for all the religions in the world. That is "dying for your country".

 

[ajpirzada]

Veto comes into play when you want to block the resolution, not trying to get it passed\approved. So CN has veto power and would have come to PK's rescue and blocked the directive. It didn't do that.

As I said earlier, US was forced to withdraw the resolution because lack of evidence. With Arif they were able to carry through. I wonder why?

Last I checked rules are not based on magnitude.


Ok witness is not able to differntiate between type of explosive. So? How did all this tie back to SE blast. Witness saw Purohit with explosive. There was blast in SE. Witness has nothing to do with SE blast. How these 2 things tie together?

Read this thread
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...es/54666-abhinav-bharat-base-terrorism-2.html
post from fateh71 has clarified that before the death of ATS chief in 26/11, his team clarified that they are not linking Purohit with SE blast. (Read post 23)
Now its time for me to think why you carried on with CD after SE blast? Does you decision maker were informed that this is handiwork of there own citizen and org based in PK?

You know very well I am taking about 26/11. I am thinking why this remark? Are you getting the feeling that you have lost the argument?

If you read carefully enough, Its lack of worry in IN in my black hat remarks.


And so? How does it equate with org like LeT who are killing our citizen? I think all ppl will agree that airing your view and killing somebody is different league.

Read the link given above. Before the death of ATS chief, team under his leadership has clarified that they are not linking Purohit with SE blast.

Its clear now that before his death, ATS chief has delinked the purohit with SE blast.
Till the time you cann't explain why GoP is accepting UN directive against Arif, I will take a bow from this discussion.

well things have now come down to only two arguments. US linking Arif to sumjhota blast and Indian investigation saying something totally different.

now just because US has not provided any further details of their investigation and the evidence they collected, i will give more weight to wat was found on ground by ATS. as of karkare no linking prouhit with SE blasts, well i see no reason why karkare should have given his verdict against pruhit while the investigation was still under way. had the investigation been completed we would have come to know wat really happened.

now either you say the investigation carried out by ATS was flawed or accept the following. in both cases this argument will end.

Purohit supplied RDX for Samjhauta bomb: ATS

Mustafa Plumber & Anubhuti Vishnoi
Nashik , New Delhi November 15 The Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) suspects that Lt Col Prasad Purohit supplied the RDX that was used in the Samjhauta Express blast on February 18, 2007 that killed 68 passengers.

The ATS suspects Purohit supplied the explosive to a person named ‘Bhagwan’ (this doesnt sound to me a muslim name) who is believed to be a link in the bomb blasts.

Seeking an extension of police custody of Purohit, Special Prosecutor for Maharashtra ATS Ajay Misar told a Nashik court that a witness in the Malegaon blast case told the agency that Purohit had claimed he had 60 kg of RDX in his possession which he had got from J&K (this is where the witness tells the agency about the involvement of Purohit).

Misar said: “When Purohit was stationed at the Deolali army camp, he had gone to Jammu and Kashmir on official work and is believed to have got 60 kg of RDX and a part of it was given to this link ‘Bhagwan’, who used it in the Samjhauta train blast. The ATS is probing his involvement.”

“Purohit handed over the RDX to Bhagwan who is suspected to be in hiding in the garb of a godman. So Bhagwan is a key link and we hope to learn about his whereabouts and antecedents in the three-day remand given,” Misar told The Indian Express. (this is wat your special prosecutor is saying)

The ATS also said that Purohit—along with Pragya Thakur and Dayanand Pandey—is suspected to have played a key role not only in the Malegaon blast of September 29 but in other blasts as well.

The witness, whose statement had been recorded, had said that Purohit showed him two small brown bags containing RDX, which he said he had recovered from J&K, Misar added.

However, Purohit in his statement to the ATS said that he had thrown the 60 kg of RDX into the Jhelum river instead of depositing it in the army depot.

The ATS is also probing the role of a Nashik-based builder who was paid Rs 2.5 lakh by Ajay Rahirkar at the behest of Purohit. The police have already said that funds amounting to lakhs were routed to Rahirkar through hawala channels. Rahirkar, in turn, transferred part of it to Pandey and Purohit’s accounts.

The Haryana police probing the Samjhauta blast (which happened in Panipat in Haryana) are now counting on finding new clues when they get to question Mahant Amritanand alias Dayanand Pandey on Sunday.

The Samjhauta probe trail had reached a dead-end in Indore, but the initial line of investigations was very SIMI-centric as several SIMI leaders including Safdar Nagori came from that area.

Madhya Pradesh police officials involved in the probe last year said that when a SIMI connection failed to emerge, suggestions were made to examine the possible involvement of Hindu right wing groups, but it was not taken up then. Haryana police confirmed the SIMI angle was ruled out after investigations.

A mix of high- and low-intensity explosives was used in the blast on the Indo-Pak friendship train which killed 68 — 42 of them Pakistanis. While a larger quantity of Potassium Chlorate and Sulphur were used to create the bomb, minor quantities of RDX were also found in the bomb, Dr. R K Koshal, ballistic expert from Haryana’s Forensic Science Laboratory confirmed (so according to ur ballistic expert RDX was also used which goes against ur claim of no RDX used). The use of RDX in ‘traces’ was also seen in explosives used in Mecca Masjid blast in Hyderabad in May 2007 and also in the Malegaon blast.

“There was RDX in traces in the suitcase bomb on the Samjhauta Express and that much was enough for the blast mechanism,” said Kaushal.

ADG Haryana V N Rai who is heading the Samjhauta blast probe, however, said that there is still no major breakthrough in the investigation.”We are closely monitoring the situation and are in touch with Mumbai ATS. Our probe status still stands at Indore”, Rai said.

The bombers had purchased the suitcases from Indore’s Kothari market. Investigations had found that the ‘Kodak’ brand suitcases used in the explosion on the train were purchased from the Abhinandan Bag Centre in Kothari Market while a tailor who sat opposite the bag centre stitched the suitcase covers. That apart, the pipe-bomb shells, Super Saurabh plastic boxes in which the IED was packed were also bought from the same area. Two of the accused in the Malegaon blasts are from Indore.

Purohit supplied RDX for Samjhauta bomb: ATS - Express India