India may launch Iranian satellite

[AchtungSpitfire]

Gotta love the knee jerk Anti-Americanism. Looks like no there no dearth of that in India as well. Forget our concerns for a minute and think about your new BFF...the Israelis. If I'm not mistaken you guys have a quid pro quo sharing arrangement over one of their spy sats over West Asia.

India being obsessed with her 'independent' foreign policy for the last 60 odd years got you jack d!ck and encircled by your adversaries with nothing to show for. Being Irans 'friend' just for the sake of that empty goal while sacrificing actual productive relationships with the west and Israel seems to be along the same moronic thinking that thankfully the new establishment in Delhi isn't succumbing to.

 

[MilesTogo]

you had to use that much ammo - a little less would have got the job done

Gotta love the knee jerk Anti-Americanism. Looks like no there no dearth of that in India as well. Forget our concerns for a minute and think about your new BFF...the Israelis. If I'm not mistaken you guys have a quid pro quo sharing arrangement over one of their spy sats over West Asia.

India being obsessed with her 'independent' foreign policy for the last 60 odd years got you jack d!ck and encircled by your adversaries with nothing to show for. Being Irans 'friend' just for the sake of that empty goal while sacrificing actual productive relationships with the west and Israel seems to be along the same moronic thinking that thankfully the new establishment in Delhi isn't succumbing to.

 

[Red Dwarf]

India becoming isolated day by day in the world due to our recently developed love for America which is doing any good for India.

 

[deckingraj]

who do you mean by them?

What i mean by them is that the way their foreign policy cannot simply ignore Indian sentiments the same way we cannot ignore their sentiments

We are a sovereign country and have an independent foreign policy.America or China can't dictate how our relations with other countries exist.The GoI has taken this issue very seriously....and I am pretty sure that the public image of the Yanks in India has taken a massive beating.
They have undermined our regional importance and have included matters concerning our foreign policy as a constituent of theirs with china.
Obama is doing the right thing by appeasing China....a future superpower...for the sake of the yanks back home...

Yes you are right..and thats why you saw a strong Indian reaction to it...You might have also seen how they are backtracking and clarifying about it...Anyways the point i am trying to make is that you cannot simply ignore sentiments associated with you key parterners... You got to take a balanced approach and this do not mean that you have surrendered your Foreign Policy

the point is that we are dangerously banking too much on the Americans...the nuclear deal can act as a tranquilizing gun in no time...

I am not sure if we are banking too much on Americans..The reason we still are giving due importance to our relations with Russia...Arab world..Israle..Palestine etc etc...If we are doing so then it would be a big mistake.

@ A little off topic
As far as nuclear deal is concerned do you agree it will prove as a boon for India in a decade or so??? Its only because of US that we got the NSG approval without signing CTBT, NPT etc...Wait for a decade....you will see how india will become immune to any sanctions...


@ back to topic
Now what i am saying is that there has to be some give and take...these deals are not just from pure economics perspective. As far as Iran is concerned i am of the strong opinion that we should maintain cordial relations with them..However i am supporting this particular move because at the moment there is very strong international sentiments against Iran...and helping them at this moment will be counter productive for GOI...Now does that mean we should dump Iran...OF COURSE NOT..but we need to take a balance approach.... I highlighted this section in the last post as well

Delhi, however, gave due importance to Mr Mottaki's visit by granting him a meeting with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Monday.

Russia is not against Iran...China opposes Iran's moves because of their defense deals with Israel.

Well as of now they are supporting international sentiments against Iran's nuclear aspiration and thats what i meant by against(sorry for using a strong word for lack of any better word)

@ A little off topic

Iran's defence deals with Israel??? What you mean???

@ back to topic

and we are not even supplying anything to Iran...I am against that...but launching their satellite has got to be the least we could have done for our ally of eons....

Tell me do you think launching a satellite is not a big deal?? Does it directly or indirectly help in missile technology... If not then indeed a bad move by GOI...

we suck bro.

I know we do...but not sure if for this reason...

 

[paritosh]

Guys,
Dont try to look at GOI's reluctance to launch Irans satellite as succumbin its foreign policy to the west, but try to understand d circumstances--

takin an example of kerry lugar bill, u guys thumped ur chests when USA put some obligations on Pak, sayin it was Indias win, but u forget USA had to make such a bold decision because its foreign policy in a certain manner is binded to India and has to make sure the Indian sentiments dont get hurt. Just lookin at scenario tells u how important the Indo-US relations are since US bein a super power could hv easily thwarted the attempts by India!! But does that mean USA isnt a sovereign country or doesnt hv an independent policy than India??

it was Obama who pointed out the misallocation of funds by Pakistan.
It's their money and they have all the right to audit it.

des days public sentiments and media matter a lot, r u people sure that if India goes with the launch there wont b a public outcry in the US,EU,ISreal and their media shall label India as a proliferatin nation without ny proof since it maintains relations with a rogue state?? Wont questions b raised of Indias commitments?? Wont d weapons deals come into question??

We need Israel...we need Iran.We launch Israel's SPY satellite..but refuse to launch an Iranian satellite which is not even a military satellite.
and how is Iran a rogue state?it is as rogue as Saudi Arabia and Israel...and it's not even our business to know how iran goes about it's business.
A non-NPT signatory can't dictate to another...even America is a non-NPT signatory.
the point is we need to form a concrete foreign policy fast...and abide by it.
the Iranians have voted for us a lot of times when they have been in the security council...and we did vote against them in the general assembly.

And if launchin a mere satellite is such a small issue, why in d world is Iran tryin to launch it ?? why doesnt it abandon its program since its not important?? Why does ISRO keeps lauchin satellites throughout d year?? guys India launchd its first satellite in 1960's via russia and look wher it is now.... what gurantee is that IRan wont mature its space program??what is gurantee that in a few years takin heart from a successful project it wont launch its satellite usin some indegenious vehicle and use it for military purpose?

what does the above mean?
The did launch their own satellite earlier this year...it was a small one but it sure was a start.As far as maturing the space program is concerned...what is wrong with that?
Qatar and Iran have been our biggest allies in the mid-east...they have by-passed several anti-India moves put forward by Pakistan in the OIC committee...

today the spy satellites are the most important and to understand its importance look what ISRO tryin to do in comin 5yrs...nd that to takin help from Israel...

Sayin that not launchin Irans satellite is attack on our foreign policy is ridiculous, nd to further my point, can any1 answer why in the world Iran provide its war planes to pakistan against India if it was so sensitive of maintain cordial relations with India which as many suggest hv come thru ages??

Iran under the Shah was an American ally and was I think a signatory of the CENTO pact along with Pakistan...IRan and Pakistan were allies back then...after the revolution...with Khominei...they are not so Pak friendly...they are very important to India...the USA respects that and considers India and important partner in brokering peace.
The Yanks latest move of trying to work out things with the Chinese by almost asking them to meddle in Indo-Pak relations has shocked many.

 

[paritosh]

Yes you are right..and thats why you saw a strong Indian reaction to it...You might have also seen how they are backtracking and clarifying about it...Anyways the point i am trying to make is that you cannot simply ignore sentiments associated with you key parterners... You got to take a balanced approach and this do not mean that you have surrendered your Foreign Policy

some time back...Russia and China formed a political organization called the SCO...Putin asked the GoI to step into the fold and join as full-fledged memebers...we settled for an observer status...Pakistan also has an observer status...but wants a full membership role...that hangs on the choice that we make.
the GoI is playing a calculated game in terms of geo-politics...that is to slowly crawl into the Yank camp...there have been many issues to certify this...it'd be a long boring post.
in short....being non-aligned doesn't work for you if you have enemies and want to be a superpower.
read my previous post and you'd see how we compromised on our foreign policy vis-avis Iran...first we voted against them in the UN general assembly...under american pressure...we clutched put of the IPI gasline...and now we refuse to launch their satellite.
It is understandable as we are dependent more on the Yanks and Israel than we are on Iran...but we need to take care of the Iranians as well.

@ A little off topic
As far as nuclear deal is concerned do you agree it will prove as a boon for India in a decade or so??? Its only because of US that we got the NSG approval without signing CTBT, NPT etc...Wait for a decade....you will see how india will become immune to any sanctions...

I will explain...to simplify the nuke deal...it's like the GoI had kept the uranium enrichment process strictly a PSU for all these years and disallowed Indian private sector companies to try their hands at centrifuges and other enrichment processes...and suddenly they opened the gates to American and other international FDI...thereby killing all future prospects of an Indian domestic capability to enrich a substantial amount of fuel.
In one way we have opened the door to an assured amount of nuke fuel supply....but we have also been tied to dependency on international relations for our energy security.

@ back to topic
Now what i am saying is that there has to be some give and take...these deals are not just from pure economics perspective. As far as Iran is concerned i am of the strong opinion that we should maintain cordial relations with them..However i am supporting this particular move because at the moment there is very strong international sentiments against Iran...and helping them at this moment will be counter productive for GOI...Now does that mean we should dump Iran...OF COURSE NOT..but we need to take a balance approach.... I highlighted this section in the last post as well

we need to do more and not walk the American line always.

@ A little off topic

Iran's defence deals with Israel??? What you mean???

it was "China's defense deals with Israel"...

Tell me do you think launching a satellite is not a big deal?? Does it directly or indirectly help in missile technology... If not then indeed a bad move by GOI...

no it does not in any way...unless the data of the makeup of the Indian sat launch vehicles is provided to Iran...which never happens.

 

[deckingraj]

some time back...Russia and China formed a political organization called the SCO...Putin asked the GoI to step into the fold and join as full-fledged memebers...we settled for an observer status...Pakistan also has an observer status...but wants a full membership role...that hangs on the choice that we make.

the GoI is playing a calculated game in terms of geo-politics...

Paritosh why do you consider playing a calculated move as a bad move??? To me its better to be cautious than to repent later...See what happen to Pakistan...The joined US camp and alienated Russia...Then being an Islamic state always opposed Israel...whereas due to our non-allignment theory we manage to keep good/average relations with almost everyone...In fact just to appease Arabs we did not recognize Israel as late as 1991...thank god common sense prevailed and today Israel has even outshine russia as a defence supplier...

that is to slowly crawl into the Yank camp...

This is where i disagree....We did not crawl into USSR camp even after US pro-pakistan role... Though we had the defence deal yet we kept a comparatively blanced approach....when we did not do it then why you think we will do it now??? Also people like me and you are against it...We will eat the government raw in case they join any camps....

there have been many issues to certify this...it'd be a long boring post.
in short....being non-aligned doesn't work for you if you have enemies and want to be a superpower.

Bro...it has worked for us for so long and will work...Also by joining any camps don't you think we will increase our enemies rather than making friends...How many countries helped Pakistan during our conflict even though they had join camps???

read my previous post and you'd see how we compromised on our foreign policy vis-avis Iran...first we voted against them in the UN general assembly...under american pressure...we clutched put of the IPI gasline...and now we refuse to launch their satellite.

I agree with what you are saying but then you can't do much against the current geo-politics.. I would request you to go through this link

Global Politician - US thanks India for its support in IAEA vote on Iran nuclear issue

Some of the experts

Warning the 22 countries of economic consequences, he said, "Iran will revise these (economic and trade) relations and these countries will suffer. Our economic and political relations are coordinated with each other."

India’s delegation was one of the 22 which voted against Iran at the IAEA, in Vienna on September 24, out of a total 35.

However, Iran’s chief nuclear negotiator Ali Larijani said Iran was willing to continue its "friendly" relationship with India. "We should not lose a friend because of one incident," Larijani told reporters. "We will have talks with India over Iran’s nuclear ambitions in the future."

What above quotes show is that New Delhi is definitely doing lot of back channel engagements with Iran to ensure our relations don't go for a toss...

It is understandable as we are dependent more on the Yanks and Israel than we are on Iran...but we need to take care of the Iranians as well.

I hundred percent agree with your point..We cannot ignore Iran...Though you cannot ignore the international sentiments against Iran and current geo-political happenings...As of now having good relations with US is proving very beneficial to us..though ideally it should not be at the expense of Iran but vice-versa is a big NO NO..that is where New Delhi has to show mature diplomacy....

Buddy my only point to you is that independent foreign policy cannot be at the expense of your national interest...Now if you say alienating US at this stage will not harm india propspects then we can argue...However just because US does not like we should make or dump friends is also not a wise move...Which i am sure New Delhi is well aware of and Iran is still our friend....

I will explain...to simplify the nuke deal...it's like the GoI had kept the uranium enrichment process strictly a PSU for all these years and disallowed Indian private sector companies to try their hands at centrifuges and other enrichment processes...and suddenly they opened the gates to American and other international FDI...thereby killing all future prospects of an Indian domestic capability to enrich a substantial amount of fuel.
In one way we have opened the door to an assured amount of nuke fuel supply....but we have also been tied to dependency on international relations for our energy security.

I am little hesitant to go into details for the sake of not derailing threads so will keep it short...From the limited knowledge i have i beg to disagree... We have abundance of thorium but not uranium..As far as enrichment from Thorium is concerned still lot have to be done...Our existing plants are working at below par...As far as dependency is concerned we are not dependent on one country...We will have independent deals with different countries and over the time you will see all these companies outsourcing work to India..thats what i mean wait for a decade or so you will see india immune to any sanctions...Here's a link for our progress on Thorium... Though ideally i would like to see our thorium based nuclear plants...and no dependency whatsoever...

India designs new atomic reactor for thorium utilisation - Express India

we need to do more and not walk the American line always.

I agree....We need to do more...and yes the impression that we are giving on international forums is that we are walking American Lines...However you got to see it in the perspective of US importance to India in current geo-politics and her long term quest - A superpower...

no it does not in any way...unless the data of the makeup of the Indian sat launch vehicles is provided to Iran...which never happens.

Well if not then i don't understand why GOI did not help Iran... This is plain stupid...Care to explain then what is the fuss about??? What US interest were being compromised had we choosen to launch the sattelite...As said if thats the case i am with you and yes GOI did make a mistake...However i am not sure if there was no US/west interests being compromised then why the heck this aticle is saying...

"Any such launch would be a sensitive issue given that Western nations view with concern Iran's missile programme."

I hope we are not going over-board to impress US...If we are then i know whom i have to vote for next time ....

 

[TruthSeeker]

The USA vehemently opposes any strategic help to the Iranian regime, except for humanitarian goods and services. Anything that makes Iran militarily stronger is bad for the USA until Iran stops supporting international terrorism and blocking a Palestinian/Israel two state solution. If India ignores this vital interest of the USA, then the USA should be less willing to support India down the road. Of course, if India were willing to give the USA all telemetry information about the Iranian satellite AND put a small explosive charge inside, timed to blow up a week after launch, then that would be OK. India could get the money from Iran to help its space programs, and not upset the USA. Who would know?

 

[deckingraj]

Here is an interesting article...The message is when it comes to National Interest India do not budge...

The Hindu : Sci-Tech / Energy & Environment : India willing to be isolated but will not accept legally binding cuts: Jairam

 

[paritosh]

Paritosh why do you consider playing a calculated move as a bad move??? To me its better to be cautious than to repent later...See what happen to Pakistan...The joined US camp and alienated Russia...Then being an Islamic state always opposed Israel...whereas due to our non-allignment theory we manage to keep good/average relations with almost everyone...In fact just to appease Arabs we did not recognize Israel as late as 1991...thank god common sense prevailed and today Israel has even outshine russia as a defence supplier...

I agree with the above...but what I am trying to say is that during the late 80s and the 90s China was working to modernize and indegenize it's entire setup....it wasn't aligned to any block...and was considered relatively weak....today their existing domestic tech is not at par with that of the ruskies or the yanks...but it's improving at a lightening fast pace...while we have played for the shorter game...always picking up sides when our lack of technology forces us to go look out for western or eastern substitutes...
take for example the LCA program...during the 90s we were in talks with Lockheed Martin for tech guidance on the LCA...we then did them nuke tests...and got sanctions all over us...the LCA suffered.
ISRO was blacklisted.
You see sublime politics in our expansive foreign relations...I see massive tech dependence that is like a stupid addiction to crystal meth.
In the end...it is all about having a sovereign say...and wielding the requisite power to make every other nation listen to you and accept your stance.
IMO...Iran can have a bigger role to play as an ally...in case of a war with Pakistan...keep in mind..all the 'allies' that we have made so far...are our allies only till we buy from them...Israel would never step up in case of a war with Pakistan no matter what the controversy spinners say.
Iran like India has interests in the region...it shares a border.
As a country we need to realize where our borders lie...
but because of the new found interest in the Americans we are compromising more than we can afford.

Bro...it has worked for us for so long and will work...Also by joining any camps don't you think we will increase our enemies rather than making friends...How many countries helped Pakistan during our conflict even though they had join camps???

many countries did help Pakistan...the PAF was provided with planes and spares in almost every conflict.
having an unwavering independent foreign policy is what matters.

I am little hesitant to go into details for the sake of not derailing threads so will keep it short...From the limited knowledge i have i beg to disagree... We have abundance of thorium but not uranium..As far as enrichment from Thorium is concerned still lot have to be done...Our existing plants are working at below par...As far as dependency is concerned we are not dependent on one country...We will have independent deals with different countries and over the time you will see all these companies outsourcing work to India..thats what i mean wait for a decade or so you will see india immune to any sanctions...Here's a link for our progress on Thorium... Though ideally i would like to see our thorium based nuclear plants...and no dependency whatsoever...

thorium is not the international nuke fuel..so we can't trade thorium...
we were developing a fast breeder reactor at Kalpakkam with the Russian help...and the Americans had that area under surveillance....
and just having thorium rich maozarite sands in kerala doesnt help...enrichment is a ******...and so the need for the nuke deal...

 

[TheBraveHeart]

it was Obama who pointed out the misallocation of funds by Pakistan.
It's their money and they have all the right to audit it.

Will u pls care to explain what on earth Indian representatives and India lobby was doin in washington days before the bill was introduced??
Is obama a saint who could forsee that the money might b used against India nd so the restrictions, while his predecessors cudnt ? or is it that USA loves India so much that they cant see us burnin??

We need Israel...we need Iran.We launch Israel's SPY satellite..but refuse to launch an Iranian satellite which is not even a military satellite.
We need Israel- Very Much True, We need Iran- Not necessarily true.......
Who told u that a civilian purpose satellite cant be used for military operations?? as far as i know, a satellite can perform many purposes other than the ones published albeit in lesser degree...example "oceansat" which India has for researchin oceans flora and fauna can also b used to keep a look on the vessels plyin in that area...another example is that of mumbai attacks where ISI used "googleearth" to locate mumbai and study the region!!, wasnt it for civilianuse only
and how is Iran a rogue state?it is as rogue as Saudi Arabia and Israel...and it's not even our business to know how iran goes about it's business.
Again i repeat Iran in current political scenario has no clout whatsoever neither r there ny indications that it will change in comin years, further it has problems not only with Israel but also arab countries(care to look at their weapons purchase des days all aimed at Iran).

U miss another point, if India wants to play as a global power it has to take each and every nation seriously, it cant close its eyes nd go to sleep. example - the plight of tamils in srilanka is no way related to USA but as a global power it has to confront srilanka govt for crimes commited.

I called Iran a rogue state from the point of view of the west

A non-NPT signatory can't dictate to another...even America is a non-NPT signatory.
the point is we need to form a concrete foreign policy fast...and abide by it.
the Iranians have voted for us a lot of times when they have been in the security council...and we did vote against them in the general assembly.

bein a non-NPT signatory doesnt mean u cant ask (not dictate) a nation to give up its nuclear weapons, tommorrow if bangladesh or nepal start developin nukes wont India interfere even if non of wer to be non-NPT signatory?? also do understan wat NPT stands for-Non proliferation Treaty, which in short means signatory nations cant sell or purchase certain weapons and technologies like nukes etc from other nations.

our forign policy is no way dictated by US or other countries but its own requiremnets, had India bein under US control der wont have been such prolonged discussions in WTO and Climate change at copenhagen where Indias cooperatin with China-does that mean India is under chinese influence???

the question of India votin against Iran is just a miniscule one and could hv been an answer to Irans vociferous claims of US havin double standards vis-a-vis India durin the NSG resolution, remember Iran was opposed to it and played with china-paks tactics at that time

what does the above mean?
The did launch their own satellite earlier this year...it was a small one but it sure was a start.As far as maturing the space program is concerned...what is wrong with that?
Qatar and Iran have been our biggest allies in the mid-east...they have by-passed several anti-India moves put forward by Pakistan in the OIC committee...

So did India in d past, the point i m tryin make is in politics der is always a give nd take relationship- if Iran were to provide India with the pipeline at cheap cost and sorted most of the difficulties in it, India wont hv gone to such levels, but since it played the pakistan card and continues to play even today long with china card, it has been forced to be harsh

Iran under the Shah was an American ally and was I think a signatory of the CENTO pact along with Pakistan...IRan and Pakistan were allies back then...after the revolution...with Khominei...they are not so Pak friendly...they are very important to India...the USA respects that and considers India and important partner in brokering peace.
The Yanks latest move of trying to work out things with the Chinese by almost asking them to meddle in Indo-Pak relations has shocked many.

many countries are signatory to NATO but does that mean each country has to provide forces when a decision is taken by majority?? it depends on the nation itself....

my question still remains unanswered what made them to take part in the war against a so called ally where dey cud hv palyed neutral...didnt they play Islam card??...yes they did..didnt they change their policy for regional gains ??...yes dey did.....then wats so wrong with what India wants to do??

China and russia can always launch the satellite but i bet they wont do so.....nd even if they do ....look at the repercussions waitin for them

The days of India remainin non-aligned are long gone....it has to choose its allies and decide who gonna remain neutral...nd while doin so it has to make sure it doesnt hurt its allies goals and their peoples sentiments. In a way GOI is not only answerable to people of India but also people of US,EU,Israel,russia,asustralia,etc.......since its a democracy otherwise Mrs. Clinton wont hv travelled to pakistan just to clear d doubts of kerrry lugar bill nd given so many interviews in justa a couple of days

 

[TheBraveHeart]

"I agree with the above...but what I am trying to say is that during the late 80s and the 90s China was working to modernize and indegenize it's entire setup....it wasn't aligned to any block...and was considered relatively weak....today their existing domestic tech is not at par with that of the ruskies or the yanks...but it's improving at a lightening fast pace...while we have played for the shorter game...always picking up sides when our lack of technology forces us to go look out for western or eastern substitutes...
take for example the LCA program...during the 90s we were in talks with Lockheed Martin for tech guidance on the LCA...we then did them nuke tests...and got sanctions all over us...the LCA suffered.
ISRO was blacklisted.
You see sublime politics in our expansive foreign relations...I see massive tech dependence that is like a stupid addiction to crystal meth.
In the end...it is all about having a sovereign say...and wielding the requisite power to make every other nation listen to you and accept your stance.
IMO...Iran can have a bigger role to play as an ally...in case of a war with Pakistan...keep in mind..all the 'allies' that we have made so far...are our allies only till we buy from them...Israel would never step up in case of a war with Pakistan no matter what the controversy spinners say.
Iran like India has interests in the region...it shares a border.
As a country we need to realize where our borders lie...
but because of the new found interest in the Americans we are compromising more than we can afford."


China in d 80s played its independent policy and so did India, wat wer d results...we lagged behind other countries...also china resorted to industrial espionage to make headways, India didnt...which is why no1 except russia provides it with weapons.....Israel wanted to supply china with weapons but big daddy overruled it ...but India continues to cooperate with it just because we didnt play hardline cause like china....

Maintainin cordial realtions with US, EU, Isreal,russia provides us with an unique oppertunity to make choices accordin to needs and budeget...look at the MMRCA deal ...no country has been able to pressurize India in the deal and in the process many hv obliged to numerous concessions if selected...

Go back to history books and u shall realize it was russia who came to d rescue of India in 1971 and Israel in 1999 kargil....those laser guided bombs that India dropped were fitted with Israeli help...also der wer unconfirmed reports of Isreali planes flyin over Indian territory...and did u forget the clandestine operation which never was executed of destroyin paks nukes with Isreal in 1990s. Israel feels as much insecure with paks nukes and military as it does from irans cause pakistan has fought in previous wars against israel and continues to oppose it

 

[paritosh]

China in d 80s played its independent policy and so did India, wat wer d results...we lagged behind other countries...also china resorted to industrial espionage to make headways, India didnt...which is why no1 except russia provides it with weapons.....Israel wanted to supply china with weapons but big daddy overruled it ...but India continues to cooperate with it just because we didnt play hardline cause like china....

if you talk in terms of what we seek to achieve and what we have done so far...and you compare it to a country like China with whom we share more than an overbearing population...you'd see common objectives and dissimilar factual results on ground.

We did have a majorly social outlook to our economy...considering the closed and labor intensive economy we had...
It was our primary goal to not base our foreign policy on that of either the western bloc nor on the soviet bloc...to enjoy the gains of both the east and the west....TO and TIll we develop our own domestic means to cut our international dependence.
that obviously did involve our trying to master the foreign tech at hand...for a country that has been plundered for over 200 years...and has a gross resource to population imbalance...we need to fast forward the tech know-how through reverse-engineering...
Our not joining any bloc was half a right....the other half was to develop our own know-how...not being able to achieve the other right has resulted in the brain-drain as we know of it...
China had all the right to reverse engineer and commit copyright infringements and patent violations...they wanted to produce everything on their own...can't really say that they were wrong now can we?
We started right...but couldn't get rid of our addiction of foreign help....
Both of us know that the size and efficiency of our domestic industry is not comparable to most self-sustaining countries.
The point is that there have been serious loop-holes in our approach...
alienating an ally is blasphemous.

Maintainin cordial realtions with US, EU, Isreal,russia provides us with an unique oppertunity to make choices accordin to needs and budeget...look at the MMRCA deal ...no country has been able to pressurize India in the deal and in the process many hv obliged to numerous concessions if selected...

that is indeed a massive advantage but for a short term benefit.
it was the same LM of america that refused to help us with the LCA after Pokharan...
France has sold as much it has to us to Pakistan and China...
and an over-dependence on the Ruskies is showing with the over-inflated Gorshkov deal...and their unwillingness at providing us the S-400 system...
the Chinese cut their dependence on the Soviets and began their own weaponization programs...
all these allies of the world that we have will not fight our wars...they might endorse them...countries with common interests will...

Go back to history books and u shall realize it was russia who came to d rescue of India in 1971

that happened because we were listening to the Soviets...using their weapons and providing a counter-weight to the CENTO countries...the soviets saw their own interests.
if the USS enterprise was to again enter our territorial waters to threaten us...would the russians risk a nuclear war today?

and Israel in 1999 kargil....those laser guided bombs that India dropped were fitted with Israeli help...also der wer unconfirmed reports of Isreali planes flyin over Indian territory...

what is your point?
those laser guided bombs were aboard russian/French planes...why are you discounting their help?
we paid to get the tech...and what were these Israeli planes doing in our skies?
plus the whole world was backing us during the Kargil war.
it was Clinton who gave Nawaz Sharif a dressing down and wanted him to close the supply routes...

and did u forget the clandestine operation which never was executed of destroyin paks nukes with Isreal in 1990s. Israel feels as much insecure with paks nukes and military as it does from irans cause pakistan has fought in previous wars against israel and continues to oppose it

two things...
a)there is a difference between a buyer-seller relationship and having an all-weather ally
b)alliances are dynamic...so we should not bank too much no them...

I am not against the balancing act of the GoI...I am for it...just that by refusing to function as an ally of Iran...again and again we fail to balance things out.

 

[dabong1]

well done india........dont launch the Iranian satellite

 

[TheBraveHeart]

if you talk in terms of what we seek to achieve and what we have done so far...and you compare it to a country like China with whom we share more than an overbearing population...you'd see common objectives and dissimilar factual results on ground.

Yes, there is a serious mismatch between India & China compared to what it was in 80s and 90s but the reason behind it is, we went alone, tried to design our own weapons, planes,etc without consulting any other country at that time...and when we did it was too late....it was a serious mistake since all the latest weapons that westerners have these days were designs of cold war period and took decades of expertise to develop from scratch. China minimized this development by more than half by means of copying,. and the result is they believe more in quantity than quality. only third world and rogue nations want their weapons which in a decade might change due to massive improvements that they are researching, similarly India can and surely will catch up but will take a decade or two..signs are there ..I hope you to are optimistic

We did have a majorly social outlook to our economy...considering the closed and labor intensive economy we had...
It was our primary goal to not base our foreign policy on that of either the western bloc nor on the soviet bloc...to enjoy the gains of both the east and the west....TO and TIll we develop our own domestic means to cut our international dependence.
that obviously did involve our trying to master the foreign tech at hand...for a country that has been plundered for over 200 years...and has a gross resource to population imbalance...we need to fast forward the tech know-how through reverse-engineering...
Our not joining any bloc was half a right....the other half was to develop our own know-how...not being able to achieve the other right has resulted in the brain-drain as we know of it...
China had all the right to reverse engineer and commit copyright infringements and patent violations...they wanted to produce everything on their own...can't really say that they were wrong now can we?
We started right...but couldn't get rid of our addiction of foreign help....
Both of us know that the size and efficiency of our domestic industry is not comparable to most self-sustaining countries.
The point is that there have been serious loop-holes in our approach...
alienating an ally is blasphemous.

I hope you concur with me on a point that "there shoul be no half measures when we talk of national security".

Also I sincerely hope you dont underestimate our domestic industry, "Rome wasnt built in a day", same goes for India. The point is to achieve something you need start and a plan which fortunately India has, the only missing link is execution in a pragmatic manner which with time shall come.

that is indeed a massive advantage but for a short term benefit.
it was the same LM of america that refused to help us with the LCA after Pokharan...
France has sold as much it has to us to Pakistan and China...
and an over-dependence on the Ruskies is showing with the over-inflated Gorshkov deal...and their unwillingness at providing us the S-400 system...
the Chinese cut their dependence on the Soviets and began their own weaponization programs...
all these allies of the world that we have will not fight our wars...they might endorse them...countries with common interests will...

please try to understand, there is no all weather alliance anywhere in the world.

If you really feel US-UK are all weather allies go through the second world war and the middle east war in 1950s or even the 1982 argentine-UK war, never did US enter in the conflict unless and until its own national interest were threatened. Only in second world war did US enter when pearl harbor incident took place.

Even china-pakistan arent all weather allies, Pakistan expected china to attack India in 1971 war and surrendered when it was sure china wont interfere, even in kargil war pakistan called for cease fire when it was alienated in the world , china turned neutral and US exerted pressure

that happened because we were listening to the Soviets...using their weapons and providing a counter-weight to the CENTO countries...the soviets saw their own interests.
if the USS enterprise was to again enter our territorial waters to threaten us...would the russians risk a nuclear war today?

Using weapons doesnt mean anyone can interfere in a war, USSR interfered cause they knew losing an ally like India would be disasterous for them, they risked a nuclear war with US which tells you the magnitude which they were ready to accept, dude it could easily have led to third world war and millions of deaths dude to nuclear weapons which is precisely why US backed off

what is your point?
those laser guided bombs were aboard russian/French planes...why are you discounting their help?
we paid to get the tech...and what were these Israeli planes doing in our skies?
plus the whole world was backing us during the Kargil war.
it was Clinton who gave Nawaz Sharif a dressing down and wanted him to close the supply routes...

Planes without weapons are just like a gun without bullets, in just a couple of days India had lost 3 planes, immediately israeli help was sort and they readily agreed, to make a point look it in this way-"a friend in need is a friend indeed".Had not those bombs be fitted the war could have extended with more casualties, and if you still have any doubts speak to any one who participated in the war and ask him the turning point/definitive moment of the war. you would be surprised to know India was in pretty bad situation till the end of may when there were no such bombs.

two things...
a)there is a difference between a buyer-seller relationship and having an all-weather ally
b)alliances are dynamic...so we should not bank too much no them...

I am not against the balancing act of the GoI...I am for it...just that by refusing to function as an ally of Iran...again and again we fail to balance things out.

thats precisely what I want to say, India-Israel have long ago crossed the buyer seller relationship towards mutual interests in current scenario
Mossad was the one who notified India about paks nukes in 1980s, they were the ones who prepared the plan for airstrikes in pak in 1990s which India somehow rejected.
Israel was the country which provided help when even Russia wasnt sure about its assistance to India
flying your planes in times of war in one of the warring nation suggests, Israel was in full support of India and was ready to enter it if need be ..neither china showed such gesture to pak nor russia to India.
post mumbai attacks Israel is the country which provides extra training to our commandoes, sells weapons and also gives intelligence reports which even US is reluctant at times to provide.
All this they do cause they treat pakistan as an enemy, Iran doesnt cooperate at such levels. Also you must remember it was Israel not India who put its hand forward for friendship.


Also you havnt answered my two other questions,
1.Is it ok with you for russia to launch pakistani satellite?? if no, then isnt it the same israel-iran scenario and if yes,"I am out of the discussion"

2. Also where did you learn that non military satellites cant be used for military purposes???

PS. I am not writing because I want to alienate Iran from India- "it is a no starter" but want people to get out of that old mindset of traditional allies and cultural similarities thing...the world today means business and India must incorporate the attitude of "Survival of the fittest" otherwise our own survival shall be threatened(in part it already has...cause whenever i board a local train or BEST bus am not sure of getting out alive", I dont know what you guys think)