India may end support to Palestine at U.N.

[The Great One]

Dude let's not get into this Gaddafi/revolution discussion, I very well know who Gaddafi was and what he did. And let me tell those Libyans who I knew were either Post graduates or PHD students and were matured married men. They were no thugs and some of them were very close to me(On off days we spent good time in each other's company). They did not seem to be aggressive, drug addicts etc... People have diverse opinions. You have to respect them instead of just dismissing them off as thuggery....

I'm not really aware of what happened in 2011 and the years leading up to it, and too lazy to google now, so could you please post a summary or something.

 

[jamahir]

I'm not really aware of what happened in 2011 and the years leading up to it, and too lazy to google now, so could you please post a summary or something.

i too am interested in what he will write.

 

[psynic]

Not that India ever mattered in the issue,but the move represents a true rightward shift in our politics. Away from Nehruvian idealism to a more pragmatist position. Cheers.

 

[The Great One]

i too am interested in what he will write.

I've been going through those links (in between all the trolling). Well, I agree with the sentiments but I'm not sure about how you people plan to actually ensure governance. And transparency. And ensure no abuse of power takes place. I.E checks and balances especially if the whole world actually 'converts' to this structure and their are no external powers like UNHRC.

 

[The_Showstopper]

I'm not really aware of what happened in 2011 and the years leading up to it, and too lazy to google now, so could you please post a summary or something.

You probably will get a good idea of what happened through this site....

The Libyan Revolution: A Brief Summary - Charleston Government | Examiner.com

And once the west interfered, as they say the rest is history and Gaddafi was brutally killed on capture... But still the security situation is worse as those who took up arms are not willing to return to their previous professions as they find power in their hands. Seems like it is going to take some time before things can settle down..

 

[The Great One]

You probably will get a good idea of what happened through this site....

The Libyan Revolution: A Brief Summary - Charleston Government | Examiner.com

And once the west interfered, as they say the rest is history and Gaddafi was brutally killed on capture... But still the security situation is worse as those who took up arms are not willing to return to their previous professions as they find power in their hands. Seems like it is going to take some time before things can settle down..

Hmmm.....
So another classic case of people aspiring for western standards, denied by a dictatorial power, eventually leading to protests-suppression............Fortunately Libyan military wasn't powerful enough or the bloodshed that would have followed.

 

[The_Showstopper]

Hmmm.....
So another classic case of people aspiring for western standards, denied by a dictatorial power, eventually leading to protests-suppression............Fortunately Libyan military wasn't powerful enough or the bloodshed that would have followed.

And fortunately most of the armed forces defected.... Hope they achieve what they set out for.

I've been going through those links (in between all the trolling). Well, I agree with the sentiments but I'm not sure about how you people plan to actually ensure governance. And transparency. And ensure no abuse of power takes place. I.E checks and balances especially if the whole world actually 'converts' to this structure and their are no external powers like UNHRC.

I believe Jamahir is no Libyan. He is an Indian who adores Gaddafi(Correct me if I am wrong @jamahir)...

 

[The Great One]

And fortunately most of the armed forces defected.... Hope they achieve what they set out for.



I believe Jamahir is no Libyan. He is an Indian who adores Gaddafi(Correct me if I am wrong @jamahir)...

He is not (he just has a man crush on Gaddafi)i. I meant all the proponents of his Jamahiriyan movement.

 

[The_Showstopper]

He is not (he just has a man crush on Gaddafi)i. I meant all the proponents of his Jamahiriyan movement.

I hope he is not offended....

 

[jamahir]

I've been going through those links (in between all the trolling). Well, I agree with the sentiments but I'm not sure about how you people plan to actually ensure governance. And transparency. And ensure no abuse of power takes place. I.E checks and balances especially if the whole world actually 'converts' to this structure and their are no external powers like UNHRC.

good points you make.

technically, the jamahiriya direct-democracy is built on transparency... referring ( The Green Book - I )...

1. every decision and recommendation done at local community/commune level ( basic people's congress ) is done vocally ( within some hall or on a ground ) by raising hand and speaking out... vocally among the rest of the local community... so there is no secret ballot at local level.

2. every mature ( adult age or technically anyone sensible ) member is give their opinion, and one has to explain their positions on "yes", "no" or otherwise... so everyone in the community knows each other's position on some issue.

3. the secretariat of the local community/commune ( basic people's congress ) records the opinions and recommendations of the people, to deliver it to the higher level.

4. the decisions taken in this gathering ( about local issues or otherwise ) have been taken by consensus... all done openly.

5. the decisions/recommendations are fixed.

6. the secretariat had been earlier selected by the local community people, by consensus... so the local community knows that any change in their present decisions/recommendations supposedly fixed must mean that their secretariat must have changed them... in that case, the community people will question the secretariat and can complain to the next level ( municipal people's congress ).

7. any work or idea that can be implemented or effected at local community level is taken care of by local "people's committees"... works like security, water works etc... these "people's committees" are supervised by the local secretariats which themselves have been chosen by the people.

8. for decision/recommendation that cannot be fulfilled at local level, and assuming that these have been truthfully delivered to the next level ( municipal people's congress ) which looks after all local communities ( basic people's congresses ) in a city, the secretariat at this higher level ( mpc ) takes decisions at a big-picture level for the entire city... keeping in mind the decisions/recommendations of each local community.

9. the secretariat of the municipal people's congress has been selected either from local communities or elsewhere but by consensus of the all local community people through each local secretariats taking their community's consensus and recommendations.

10. the secretariat of the municipal people's congress has appointed "municipal people's committees" to take care of works at city level.

11. since the secretariat of the municipal people's congress has been directly appointed by the local community peoples, it must notify the local community secretariats about the works to be undertaken or the recommendations accepted or rejected ( with due reason ).... and the local secretariats informs their local communities... and at any point, the local people can question the municipal people's congress about the progress of the decisions/recommendations given by their local community.

12. some cities can be grouped for administrative purposes... these can form a regional people's congress... with its own secretariat... and this secretariat is chosen by the smallest unit in the region ( local community / basic people's congress ) by the local secretariats taking consensus from the local peoples about the secretariat candidates... so again the transparency.

13. the highest level in the general people's congress which looks after all the local communities in the society through the preceding level of secretariats... toward this duty, the general people's congress has a general secretariat and general people's committees..

14. this can be scaled to world level by rearranging present nations into mixed smaller regions... and assigning regional people's congresses to each such region... the the general people's congress would be at world scale, something like present "united nations organization" but actually working for humanity.

that took a long time to type... please do ask for anything i may have missed.

And fortunately most of the armed forces defected.... Hope they achieve what they set out for.

false... the libyan army fought... which is why nato had to send in tens of thousands of foreign fighters ( ikhwaan/taliban/qaeda etc )... and then nato militaries themselves invaded by air and sea.

the libyan city of sirte which defended the honor of jamahiriya system... this city withstood nato air bombardment and terrorist ground bombardment for months... russian generals have called sirte city "the libyan stalindgrad".

i could tell you all more but that was all in 2011... as of now, the libyans resist the nato-installed qaeda/ikhwaan "government"... you can ask your tobruk contacts their views the present government and the present situation about jamahiri fighter and supporters.

I believe Jamahir is no Libyan. He is an Indian who adores Gaddafi(Correct me if I am wrong @jamahir)...

yes, i am india-born.

He is not (he just has a man crush on Gaddafi)i. I meant all the proponents of his Jamahiriyan movement.

I hope he is not offended....

i am a socialist who propagates the jamahiriya ideology... i do not worship any human.

gaddafi is one of my heroes, a brilliant man who contributed to humanity, a brilliant speaker and writer, and quite unique in history... he is something for all socialists, for muslims, for africans, for humans... there is no shame in saying that.

my other heroes are lenin, carlos, tipu sultan, che guevara, nasser and others down history...

 

[The_Showstopper]

1. every decision and recommendation done at local community/commune level ( basic people's congress ) is done vocally ( within some hall or on a ground ) by raising hand and speaking out... vocally among the rest of the local community... so there is no secret ballot at local level.

The problem with vocal vote is that, a person who otherwise would have expressed his opinion openly will think twice before expressing as he could feel intimidated(by)/may not want to offend others...

false... the libyan army fought... which is why nato had to send in tens of thousands of foreign fighters ( ikhwaan/taliban/qaeda etc )... and then nato militaries themselves invaded by air and sea.

the libyan city of sirte which defended the honor of jamahiriya system... this city withstood nato air bombardment and terrorist ground bombardment for months... russian generals have called sirte city "the libyan stalindgrad".

As I said, let's not get into that... You are entitled to hold your views, so do I

i could tell you all more but that was all in 2011... as of now, the libyans resist the nato-installed qaeda/ikhwaan "government"... you can ask your tobruk contacts their views the present government and the present situation about jamahiri fighter and supporters.

They aren't really happy about the men trotting around with guns in their country(More of a law and order situation)...

yes, i am india-born.

So are you still an Indian presently residing in India?

gaddafi is one of my heroes... a brilliant man who contributed to humanity... he is something for all socialists, for muslims, for africans, for humans... there is no shame in saying that.

my other heroes are lenin, carlos, tipu sultan, che guevara, nasser and others down history...

I've no issues with that. Everyone is entitled to hold an opinion unless that opinion results in harming others...

 

[jamahir]

The problem with vocal vote is that, a person who otherwise would have expressed his opinion openly will think twice before expressing as he could feel intimidated(by)/may not want to offend others...

the vocal vote in just an enlarged version of a gathering of friends or board of directors or similar gatherings... it is most democratic.

but what will you say is the alternative??

So are you still an Indian presently residing in India?

yes.

 

[The_Showstopper]

the vocal vote in just an enlarged version of a gathering of friends or board of directors or similar gatherings... it is most democratic.

but what will you say is the alternative??

Secret ballot is something I prefer just because it gives anonymity... Take the example of below where the voters are threatened if they do not vote him...

If the above guy(Or anyone with similar mentality) gets to know who voted for whom, then you very well know the outcome...

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

Says the American whose government has declared war on humanity; can't you see the irony? Maybe YOU should tell your government to lift all "sanctions" against Iran, Venezuela, Russia, North Korea and others? Who gave you the right to carry out those criminal, inhumane and illegal policies ? Also, end your relentless Islamophobia campaign and your support for terrorist organizations throughout the Middle East. You don't consider those "negative sentiments", as you put it, do you? You are the "exceptional" and "indispensable" nation after all and can do whatever you want, don't you? You are of course never wrong, but others are always wrong, even when they do nothing illegal of course.

If we had declared war on humanity; surely we would not enjoy 99.99% of humanities supporting us or wanting our patronage, or having the desire of living or visiting within our boundaries.

On the flip side, we have declared war, be it actual or diplomatic on the .0001% that you patronize and support. And yes, we are exceptional and indispensable, well put!

 

[jamahir]

If we had declared war on humanity; surely we would not enjoy 99.99% of humanities supporting us or wanting our patronage, or having the desire of living or visiting within our boundaries.

nonsense... don't use banal bland terms like "international community" to describe nations and groups which are puppets of usa government.

there are good people in usa but usa government and military should be brought before the "international criminal court" for human rights violations and war crimes.

you do not have my loyalty.

And yes, we are exceptional and indispensable, well put!

truly??