India may consider abrogate Indus Water treaty to "punish" Pakistan

[FuturePAF]

Pakistan should be prepared to see the Indians "abrogate" the 1960 Indus water treaty, in a response to the event in Kashmir. They may seek to divert more water in hopes of pressuring Pakistan.

Pakistan needs to get serious on water management and agricultural productivity.
A part of this would be looking at the economically affordable/implementable parts of the Pakistan Flood Control System. The Grand Indus Canal, Extended Grand Indus Canal and Makran Canaal, for example, could be dug by hand by solders and volunteers in an act of national resolve. The Current Dam fund is almost up to 10 Billion Rupees (which is only USD $70 million or so, but this is a start). Volunteer labor could be one way the young people's energy is channeled to a productive good all can be a part of. It might take 5-10 years to build the whole thing, but it would be like a national reservoir that could be concrete lined when the money comes in, but in the mean time would allow excess water to be transferred to more areas to increase the amount of arable land. It would like the "kachi" (unfinshed) canal in Sindh; that has opened up more arable land. The engineer work has been done to prove its viability, and should be seen as a way to funnel excess water while the dams are being build in KPK. We will then be praying for Floods so we can use the water.

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/pfc...flood-control-system-63-728.jpg?cb=1316460625

The Afghanis in one area did the same to irrigate their fields, with the guidance and vision of one persistent Japanese Doctor.

The Indians will try to go to the max within the treaty so as not to be seen to abrogate the treaty outright. We must start planning and get ahead of this while we have the young people. We should look to china's example, in the 1960s and 1970s they build thousands of miles of tunnels for national defense with simple machines and pick axes, we need to galvanize our massive youth to build this canal and serve the nation. If we can't convince people to volunteer, a fund to pay the unemployed youth a basic wage of US $100 a month for this kind of work will also be a fair compromise. If we can get Funding from our allies, we could employ 100,000s of youths this way, helping to generate jobs as well as solve the water crisis to come. Other youths could be used to clear silt from as many current canals as possible.

 

[atya]

That would be an act of war and the world will see our response

 

[Goenitz]

at extreme, all dams will be blown... we will their and they, our's..

 

[alphapak]

Pak needs to work with China. China can stop India's rivers.

 

[FuturePAF]

at extreme, all dams will be blown... we will their and they, our's..

Attacking Dams may happen, therefore we should build out the canal network to the extend possible, and maximize our water use efficiency. With the increased population, this is a crisis that is only a matter of time.

 

[waz]

This has been written about a 1,000 times can we stop bringing the right-wing Indian hot air into this?

-They are a low riparian state themselves and the response from China will be even worse. This was sent through unofficially to them.
-You can't simply store water in Kashmir, the elevations and rainfall means the dams are filled to capacity fast, risking complete destruction unless the water is released, hence the the run-of-the-river dams India is building in Kashmir.
-Third it will lead to war and much else.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Pak needs to work with China. China can stop India's rivers.

Work with Nepal and possibly some South Indian & North East states (As far as PDF perception goes), to stop the waters in India. China cannot do much about it (Maybe they can tunnel the Himalayan ranges to stop the little bit of water flowing to India)


And err... Good luck.

 

[FuturePAF]

This has been written about a 1,000 times can we stop bringing the Indian hot air into this?

-They are a low riparian state themselves and the response from China will be even worse. This was sent through unofficial
-You can't simply store water in Kashmir, the elevations and rainfall means the damns are filled to capacity fast, risking complete destruction unless the water is released, hence the the run-of-the-river dams India is building in Kashmir.
-Third it will lead to war and much else.

Agreed, they cant hold more water beyond the capacity of the run of the river dams. Although how much international pressure do you think they would face if they violated the treaty and started diverting the water via new canals.

Secondly, Pakistan needs the western "Grand Indus Canal" capacity if it hopes to increase arable land as well as stabilize water supplies for greater agricultural output. The Mohmand Dam on the swat river will take years to build. Building the canals in the area will maximize irrigation downstream just in time to benefit from the stored capacity of the new dam.

Just like the Motorway network, sections can come on line incrementally and jump start the economic activity of the area. Money spend on primarily labor that increases long term efficiency will spurn economic growth in the area. Its not a make work project, but a long term investment similar to the Chinese North South Canal. Pakistan needs to do projects that increase its efficiency, otherwise external pressures will continue to slow down development. Pakistan needs to get ahead of the 8 ball as well as employ as much of its population as possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South–North_Water_Transfer_Project

 

[GHALIB]

Pakistan should be prepared to see the Indians "abrogate" the 1960 Indus water treaty, in a response to the event in Kashmir. They may seek to divert more water in hopes of pressuring Pakistan.

Pakistan needs to get serious on water management and agricultural productivity.
A part of this would be looking at the economically affordable/implementable parts of the Pakistan Flood Control System. The Grand Indus Canal, Extended Grand Indus Canal and Makran Canaal, for example, could be dug by hand by solders and volunteers in an act of national resolve. The Current Dam fund is almost up to 10 Billion Rupees (which is only USD $70 million or so, but this is a start). Volunteer labor could be one way the young people's energy is channeled to a productive good all can be a part of. It might take 5-10 years to build the whole thing, but it would be like a national reservoir that could be concrete lined when the money comes in, but in the mean time would allow excess water to be transferred to more areas to increase the amount of arable land. It would like the "kachi" (unfinshed) canal in Sindh; that has opened up more arable land. The engineer work has been done to prove its viability, and should be seen as a way to funnel excess water while the dams are being build in KPK. We will then be praying for Floods so we can use the water.

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/pfc...flood-control-system-63-728.jpg?cb=1316460625

The Afghanis in one area did the same to irrigate their fields, with the guidance and vision of one persistent Japanese Doctor.

The Indians will try to go to the max within the treaty so as not to be seen to abrogate the treaty outright. We must start planning and get ahead of this while we have the young people. We should look to china's example, in the 1960s and 1970s they build thousands of miles of tunnels for national defense with simple machines and pick axes, we need to galvanize our massive youth to build this canal and serve the nation. If we can't convince people to volunteer, a fund to pay the unemployed youth a basic wage of US $100 a month for this kind of work will also be a fair compromise. If we can get Funding from our allies, we could employ 100,000s of youths this way, helping to generate jobs as well as solve the water crisis to come. Other youths could be used to clear silt from as many current canals as possible.

lol .........................not possible .

 

[Safriz]

This will start a war Simple

 

[waz]

Agreed, they cant hold more water beyond the capacity of the run of the river dams. Although how much international pressure do you think they would face if they violated the treaty and started diverting the water via new canals.

Secondly, Pakistan needs the western "Grand Indus Canal" capacity if it hopes to increase arable land as well as stabilize water supplies for greater agricultural output. The Mohmand Dam on the swat river will take years to build. Building the canals in the area will maximize irrigation downstream just in time to benefit from the stored capacity of the new dam.

Just like the Motorway network, sections can come on line incrementally and jump start the economic activity of the area. Money spend on primarily labor that increases long term efficiency will spurn economic growth in the area. Its not a make work project, but a long term investment similar to the Chinese North South Canal. Pakistan needs to do projects that increase its efficiency, otherwise external pressures will continue to slow down development. Pakistan needs to get ahead of the 8 ball as well as employ as much of its population as possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South–North_Water_Transfer_Project

They won't face pressure internationally, few want to get involved with such a mess, it's the Chinese that will bring any delusions of blocking water to heed.
Most of Pakistan's water issues have been its own doing for example take a look at Pakistan's water storage capacity built over the past 30 years and you will understand just how inept the rulers have been.

 

[Chhatrapati]

This has been written about a 1,000 times can we stop bringing the Indian hot air into this?

Media hot air. Besides, it's just a discussion and stopping water is not in our agenda. We always follow the laid out agreements.

-They are a low riparian state themselves and the response from China will be even worse. This was sent through unofficial

And what makes you think China will stop water (god knows how exactly) if even possible, how can they divert a a stream coming from mountain towards China, which would be an infrastructure disaster just to get back at India. We are talking about tunneling Himalayan ranges.

-You can't simply store water in Kashmir, the elevations and rainfall means the damns are filled to capacity fast, risking complete destruction unless the water is released, hence the the run-of-the-river dams India is building in Kashmir.

On point. We don't really need to dam the river, which would cost us more to obstruct natural flow of the river all that to simply get back at Pakistanis (another infra disaster).

-Third it will lead to war and much else.

Neither of us are in a position for war. If India withdraws from treaty nothing will happen but constructing gravity dams to obstruct the flow of river will lead to war (if at all possible).

IWT is unfair to the state of Jammu and Kashmir, it robs them of their water, divided to Indian state of Punjab, Haryana and the rest to Pakistan with a staggering 80 - 20 ratio. IMO this treaty is defunct. We need to store water in order to flush the silt stored in the dam. When treaty was signed, this wasn't a requirement for dams. Which is the real issue with Pakistan in relating to cases of IWT, and was ruled in favor of India.

 

[Jackdaws]

India doesn't need to abrogate the treaty. It only needs to implement the Treaty to the maximum level permissible - that itself would cause massive problems for water stressed Pakistan. Personally, I think it would be too heartless. The average Pakistani hasn't done anything to India - why cause so much suffering? Of course if India genuinely needs the water then it is well within its rights to prioritize that but using it as a pressure tactic is a bit much.

 

[Cash GK]

Pakistan should be prepared to see the Indians "abrogate" the 1960 Indus water treaty, in a response to the event in Kashmir. They may seek to divert more water in hopes of pressuring Pakistan.

Pakistan needs to get serious on water management and agricultural productivity.
A part of this would be looking at the economically affordable/implementable parts of the Pakistan Flood Control System. The Grand Indus Canal, Extended Grand Indus Canal and Makran Canaal, for example, could be dug by hand by solders and volunteers in an act of national resolve. The Current Dam fund is almost up to 10 Billion Rupees (which is only USD $70 million or so, but this is a start). Volunteer labor could be one way the young people's energy is channeled to a productive good all can be a part of. It might take 5-10 years to build the whole thing, but it would be like a national reservoir that could be concrete lined when the money comes in, but in the mean time would allow excess water to be transferred to more areas to increase the amount of arable land. It would like the "kachi" (unfinshed) canal in Sindh; that has opened up more arable land. The engineer work has been done to prove its viability, and should be seen as a way to funnel excess water while the dams are being build in KPK. We will then be praying for Floods so we can use the water.

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/pfc...flood-control-system-63-728.jpg?cb=1316460625

The Afghanis in one area did the same to irrigate their fields, with the guidance and vision of one persistent Japanese Doctor.

The Indians will try to go to the max within the treaty so as not to be seen to abrogate the treaty outright. We must start planning and get ahead of this while we have the young people. We should look to china's example, in the 1960s and 1970s they build thousands of miles of tunnels for national defense with simple machines and pick axes, we need to galvanize our massive youth to build this canal and serve the nation. If we can't convince people to volunteer, a fund to pay the unemployed youth a basic wage of US $100 a month for this kind of work will also be a fair compromise. If we can get Funding from our allies, we could employ 100,000s of youths this way, helping to generate jobs as well as solve the water crisis to come. Other youths could be used to clear silt from as many current canals as possible.

there is plain going between china and pakistan. if india do this then china will block its water entering into india. and pakistanis rivers which enter in india they will be blocked as well.. let them do this shit. china need reason to block water which is entering in india.

 

[waz]

Media hot air. Besides, it's just a discussion and stopping water is not in our agenda. We always follow the laid out agreements.

Like I said, good to see agreement here.

And what makes you think China will stop water (god knows how exactly) if even possible, how can they divert a a stream coming from mountain towards China, which would be an infrastructure disaster just to get back at India. We are talking about tunneling Himalayan ranges.

It can be done, you didn't pay attention to what happened on the brahmaputra river a little while back, do Google it. The rest of your post doesn't make sense.

On point. We don't really need to dam the river, which would cost us more to obstruct natural flow of the river all that to simply get back at Pakistanis (another infra disaster).

Fair enough, Indian geologists said the same thing.

Neither of us are in a position for war. If India withdraws from treaty nothing will happen but constructing gravity dams to obstruct the flow of river will lead to war (if at all possible).

If you withdraw and pile on the pressure, the Chinese will do likewise. War is not needed when there are other ways. You need to search the forum to see how many article, experts from India have said the same thing i.e. that being a lower state we can't do much.

IWT is unfair to the state of Jammu and Kashmir, it robs them of their water, divided to Indian state of Punjab, Haryana and the rest to Pakistan with a staggering 80 - 20 ratio. IMO this treaty is defunct. We need to store water in order to flush the silt stored in the dam. When treaty was signed, this wasn't a requirement for dams. Which is the real issue with Pakistan in relating to cases of IWT, and was ruled in favor of India.

There has been an allowance for storing water, it won't effect Pakistan much.