India "may" buy more SU-30 Mki's instead of Rafale

[Echo_419]

Not just that. Dassault should take full responsibility & ownership of all problems due to low standard work of HAL.

India really lives in a fantasy world in which ancient Indians created planes!!

You should at least respect the Senior Member tag before making these stupid comments & Low quality HAL makes far more complex aircraft than the non existent Pakistani Aircraft Industry
these weapons are not being purchased on Aid so you should not compare it with Pakistani weapons acquisition

 

[GR!FF!N]

Paveway IV ready now, Storm Shadow (+ Taurus) and Brimstone will be integrated to be available by 2018/19. If Qatar selects the EF, an anti ship missile will be added too.

that means,its not too bad if we select it.all we have to do is to upgrade earlier blocks after 2020.in fact,Tranche-3 is quite impressive.

 

[Koovie]

Not gonna happen.
The SU 30 has a limited A2G capability which is too inferior to the Rafale.

Furthermore, the MMRCA is about more than just the aircraft.
Its also about receiving the latest cutting edge technology, production and management know how and 50% off set!

 

[sancho]

How many threads are on this?

In either case, the issue here is NOT the level of sophistication of the fighters but the greater reliability and lower operating costs of the Rafale. Can India afford to have 300+ MKI with all their associated lifecycle costs?

The problem is not operating 270+ MKIs, but around 500 MKIs and FGFAs for several decades, with the same weapon capabilities and highly dependent on Russian upgrades of radar and engines.
MMRCA offers the capability to be an alternative to MKI in many roles, with lower cost as you point out, but also with not making half of the fleet dependent on Russia, even if the dependance is not as high as on the Mig fleet in the past.
LCA will come, will be more than useful for what it was intended, but can't compete with MMRCA's and MKI's in capability and roles. So cancelling MMRCA would automatically divert to more LCAs and MKIs (since that is the back up option), but automatically also to higher dependance on the MKI and FGFA for all main roles => increase of overal operational costs of IAF.

 

[Bang Galore]

Paveway IV ready now, Storm Shadow (+ Taurus) and Brimstone will be integrated to be available by 2018/19. If Qatar selects the EF, an anti ship missile will be added too.

This whole thing has become such a mess. My views on the EF & the Rafale being selected are already known but the MoD should have atleast begun simultaneous negotiations with both and then picked whoever offered the better deal. The French seem to be gambling on the idea that as per rules, negotiations can only be carried out with L1. Stupid position (for the MoD) to be in.

 

[sancho]

that means,its not too bad if we select it.all we have to do is to upgrade earlier blocks after 2020.in fact,Tranche-3 is quite impressive.

In CAS the EF will surpass Rafale by 2018, the problem will be the heavy strikes with 1000Kg bombs or Cruise missiles, since EF's design flaws don't allow to carry the weapons and enough fuel tanks for long range operations, that's why CFT's are unavoidable for it, but that will take more time. By 2019/20 it also should get credible SEAD capability, so if we can accept the short term capability with lighter loads, the long term prospect is not that bad anymore.

 

[ashwamedh]

Thoughts about Mig-35 anyone.....It may have some problems with radar(Russians are willing to work on it).
But it is considerably cheap as well..........
Also it will help save on maintenance facilities as we already have experience with mig 29 servicing............

 

[sancho]

the MoD should have atleast begun simultaneous negotiations with both

That would had taken even longer and most likely would had resulted into more problems, since 2 foreign vendors would had competed over the few Indian counterparts, to divert offsets. That part alone took Dassault nearly 2 years, now consider how long it would had taken if we had to wait till both vendors would had to do it.

 

[Bang Galore]

That would had taken even longer and most likely would had resulted into more problems, since 2 foreign vendors would had competed over the few Indian counterparts, to divert offsets. That part alone took Dassault nearly 2 years, now consider how long it would had taken if we had to wait till both vendors would had to do it.

Maybe, most likely not. Such discussions will happen in parallel, not serially. No additional time would have resulted normally.

 

[sancho]

Maybe, most likely not. Such discussions will happen in parallel, not serially. No additional time would have resulted normally.

But with the same Indian industry! HAL can't agree to produce the M88 engine and make contracts with Snecma, at the same time they do it with Eurojet for the EJ 200 engine right? Same goes for BEL, Samtel, Reliance, TATA or whoever would be asked. We have very little industry to take up that task and if one company already is occupied, because they got a contract with one vendor, it gets more difficult for the other vendor to comply to the offset requirements.

 

[The enlightened]

higher dependance on the MKI and FGFA for all main roles => increase of overal operational costs of IAF.

More than offset by the 20 billion price tag for acquiring Raffy. Don't ya think?. Or do you have any figures to prove otherwise.

 

[sancho]

More than offset by the 20 billion price tag for acquiring Raffy. Don't ya think?. Or do you have any figures to prove otherwise.

The tender requires 50% offsets, my guess was always around $18 billion, but at the end it depends on what custom features we wanted how how expensive the addition is.

 

[The enlightened]

The tender requires 50% offsets, my guess was always around $18 billion, but at the end it depends on what custom features we wanted how how expensive the addition is.

Seriously bro.
Whatever the offset, the money goes from IAF's CAPEX kitty (but doesn't come back through offsets, that goes to companies {pvt. ones at that}). Plus the over-priced French weapons, plus the insane MLU and upg. costs. No F'ing way does buying 126 MKI's no matter their Cost Per flight hour, come near this thing. Plus the deal should certainly be $20bn+

 

[KalaGhoda]

This is hard bargaining !

I'm assured that our Gujarati PM sir will do the best.

Dassault stands to loose more. Yes.

We can't blink first. As simple as that. Plainly put.

I'm sure the sukhoi offer has been presented before too.

Diplomatically speak it would be a great coup if we can secure cheap gas through various delivery ways from Russia as a favor of going to sukhoi.

But I still want rafale for IAF. 189. 50 : 50 in France in India. Good deal. Cheaper too. 90 out of a production line is enough no ?

 

[trident2010]

Good to see we are soon going to conclude MMRCA. Either way we gonna get the best fighters in sub-continent.