India lost in Afghanistan , pakistan won

[waz]

-Taliban does not control even one of Afghanistan's 50 largest cities & town.
-Afghan govt controls 50% of area and Taliban only 15% (rest is contested)
-Taliban does not have a single aircraft or heavy weapons. Meanwhile ANA has super tucano attack planes, helicopters and transport air craft. Taliban haslve Zero APCs , ANA has hundreds.
- Taliban is not recognized as ruler by a single country but Afghan givt is recignizwd by all and is the one holding Afghan membership at UN.
-Afghan govt revenue is 50 times larger than Taliban.
-Afghan govt runs a 50 times larger and modern admin setup and orgs than Taliban.

Afghan 'control' is a mirage, US commanders have highlighted this. The Taliban controls the rural areas and has the ability to cut supply lines at will, and also strikes cities with impunity. You don't need to hold cities to show your presence, read up on guerrilla campaigns.

On the right are areas controlled and contested by the Taliban. The left your claim (from US/Afghan government figures) that it controls 56%.

Here's the true picture;

But that assessment relies on statistical sleight of hand. In many districts, the Afghan government controls only the district headquarters and military barracks, while the Taliban control the rest.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/09/08/world/asia/us-misleads-on-afghanistan.html

The article is full of undeniable facts. Just yesterday the Taliban attacked up and down the country.


The ANA has all these weapons but with their losses and rapidly reducing manpower, fewer men to man them and even fewer trained to use them. Just ask yourself the question why is the USAF still conducting airstrikes, because the ANA is very limited in conducting CAS or strikes by themselves.

The power structure will have to change and there will be a new government, the present government may be recognised, but with the Taliban directly negotiating with the US this has sealed their status as a power broker and part of the country.
50 times the revenue? The country's economy is broken dude.

Now how about you answer the question, without coming up with all your stats, on why the US left the Afghan government out of the deal and spoke to the Taliban directly.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Speaking of wrong answers, that is not the 'Taliban era'. The Taliban did not exist back then. Please educate yourself on the matter and only then come back.

Did you miss something? I didn't say anything about the Taliban era.

 

[TMA]

Billions of dollars wasted,all trade routes to Central Asia blocked and with all anti Muslim violence in India now they will have a extreme anti hindutva government in Afghanistan. Long suffering is waiting...

The people of Afghanistan must be made aware of what Bharat is doing to her Muslims. Although I suspect many Afghans know and don't care...

Taliban remember the insult, humiliation, arrogance, disregard & the sheer contempt indians showed them when they were down for a few years. And they don't forget...

They also haven't forgotten Musharraf's betrayal in 2001.

 

[GumNaam]

The people of Afghanistan must be made aware of what Bharat is doing to her Muslims. Although I suspect many Afghans know and don't care...


They also haven't forgotten Musharraf's betrayal in 2001.

it was Musharraf who protected their top leadership...they know that as well.

 

[TMA]

it was Musharraf who protected their top leadership...they know that as well.

Because he had too after betraying. They have not forgotten. They just need Pakistan as much as Pakistan needs them....

 

[GumNaam]

Because he had too after betraying. They have not forgotten. They just need Pakistan as much as Pakistan needs them....

so? Whether it was "had to" or "wanted to" is irrelevant...fact is and remains that Musharraf protected them. and they know that.

 

[Mighty Lion]

Afghan 'control' is a mirage, US commanders have highlighted this. The Taliban controls the rural areas and has the ability to cut supply lines at will, and also strikes cities with impunity. You don't need to hold cities to show your presence, read up on guerrilla campaigns.

That means Taliban is still a lowly guerilla group who can't even take one city.. Nothing compared to real government like Ghani govt.

The ANA has all these weapons but with their losses and rapidly reducing manpower, fewer men to man them and even fewer trained to use them. Just ask yourself the question why is the USAF still conducting airstrikes, because the ANA is very limited in conducting CAS or strikes by themselves.

You are right but something is better than nothing and Nothing is what Taliban has when it comes to air power.

50 times the revenue? The country's economy is broken dude.

So is the Taliban (If Afghan govt is broke, the Taliban is double broke).

 

[krash]

Did you miss something? I didn't say anything about the Taliban era.

Yeah?

Saad's post,

we already have the experience.
Taliban era was best for pakistan. we had no issues from AFT back then.
we only had problem when USA NDS R&AW came to Afg. but now the time is over for them.

Your response,

Wrong answer. Back in the day you had no problems dealing with the USA either, on one hand, you got US and NATO helping you with mil equipment and training on the other you had Taliban working along with you helping them set up madrassas in Pakistan to train Muj fighters. How did that work out for you?

Also...."on one hand, you got US and NATO helping you with mil equipment and training on the other you had Taliban working along with you helping them set up madrassas in Pakistan to train Muj fighters." never happened. Please provide the exact time frame when this was happening.

Read up.

 

[GumNaam]

That means Taliban is still a lowly guerilla group who can't even take one city.. Nothing compared to real government like Ghani govt.

"real government like ghani govt"...

You are right but something is better than nothing and Nothing is what Taliban has when it comes to air power.

Last 19 years says that in a place like afghanistan, air power is irrelevant.

So is the Taliban (If Afghan govt is broke, the Taliban is double broke).

Taliban to China: meray paas tum ho

 

[waz]

That means Taliban is still a lowly guerilla group who can't even take one city.. Nothing compared to real government like Ghani govt.

Neither did the Viet kong what happened, please remind us....

You are right but something is better than nothing and Nothing is what Taliban has when it comes to air power.

You need targeting pods, advanced munitions etc which they simply don't have nor can afford. The terrain just compounds such problems.

So is the Taliban (If Afghan govt is broke, the Taliban is double broke).

[/QUOTE]

Black markets/money. Although you're right neither side is comfortable.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Pray tell me, what does Pakistan have to offer that soviets want so badly? Soviets had zero interest in South Asia, if they had the first country they go after will be China. India barely made ends meet during the 80-90's. Read something more about why the Soviet Union send troops to Afghanistan instead of spinning alternative theory to feel important.

The Soviets would green light India to invade pakistan as they please, while supporting them. You have a point that the Soviets themselves could bypass Pakistan if they simply block linked through afg and Iran to perhaps chabahar. We know that Russians have no qualms about whatever brutal tactics and obsessions their allies indulge in. Moreover it is highly probable that they would still support India in an invasion, without necessarily directly occupying Pakistani land.

As for incentives, it's the warm water port in the Gulf, access to the Indian ocean and shoring up the southern border with communist puppets/vassals/allies. What's not to like?

 

[GumNaam]

You need targeting pods, advanced munitions etc which they simply don't have nor can afford. The terrain just compounds such problems.

even with the advanced targeting tech, 70% chance of missing the target given the terrain and the guerrilla hit & run tactics.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

That means Taliban is still a lowly guerilla group who can't even take one city.. Nothing compared to real government like Ghani govt.


You are right but something is better than nothing and Nothing is what Taliban has when it comes to air power.


So is the Taliban (If Afghan govt is broke, the Taliban is double broke).

The Taliban are only broke and have no power if you believe that the iaf killed exactly 350 terrorists in Balakot and shot down an F-16............

 

[Pakistansdefender]

Exactly.
We have no other option because other afghan governments have a great tendency to be a namak haram and bite pakistan.And soon they will get close to India and that means more terrorist attacks like APS on our soil. Whatever Taliban believes in the point is they will favor pakistan and not go against us.
But that's it nothing more than that. There ideology has no place inside pakistan.

And pakistan wears that Shaheen missile strapon.

Grapes are sour pajeet

Look we have our own very brand of talibs. Thrik e taliban Pakistan. Many people fail to understand that they are doing the same thing as afghan taliban. Not once they said we want a seperation from Pakistan or something. Infact they named themseleves Pakistani taliban, representing their origin and their country.
Just like afghan taliban has a goal to take back the government and establish an Islamic empire , Pakistani taliban also want to capture Islamabad and establish an Islamic empire.
You need to understand they are not insurgents, but terrorist.
The tools afghan taliban use is terrorism, bomb blast, attacks, assassination of their own innocent countrymen etc to achieve their goal, the same way the Pakistani taliban kill innocent Pakistanis to achieve their goal which is to capture the capital and rule .
They taliban whether Pakistan or afghan are nothing but butchers that kill innocent people.
Yes the afghan taliban achieved some sort of victory in Afghanistan but at the cost of what. How many Americans they killed?
50, 100.
But they have killed millions of Afghans.
They have killed millions and millions of innocent humans. They have killed the very humans they wany. Had they not killed so many, afghans must have long left us behind in population.
How any of pakistanis idolized them. How can you idealize them... Do you wnat them to rule your country? No. Or do you even want a madmen like zia radicalising the nation. No. We need to lose things and ease up. Become more normal and less radical. Become more conclusive and increase the acceptence and work towards the development on the country based on science and modernism.
Look at the like of oriya Jan taking about them like some Nobel warriors.
Would oriya let these barbarians rule Pakistan? Would you?
They are nothing but terroist. In Pakistan we have taliban in one corner of the country and (despite huge radicalization of pakistanis at the hand of zia and still we have the remains) the overall paksitanis reject them. Attacks make them even more unpopular and untolerable. And hence everyone supported action against them...
And we eliminate them at huge coast to our economy and huge loss to life.
In Afghanistan they control the rural areas , they do governance too. And in those areas there are no attacks .
Surprise surprise.
Why there were no attacks? Because the attackers live and rule there. And so people move in their areas and hence have some level of support from jahil.
Now why we should be happy, we have given them shelter for 40 years now. We have helped them survive. Now is the time to pay back. One, settle the border and other stop the interference of India and make sure to prefer Pakistan in trade relations.
That's it.
We Pakistanis are a modern nation. We don't need these filth or religious zealots here. Even if religion goes unchecked it too crests a problem. That's why true Islamic countries always govern madrassa, mosques everything from government level. Like turkey, central Asian countries, Arab countries.
Mosques and madrassa should not be left on their own to teach their own brand and political Islam.

 

[Daghalodi]

Pak caused huge self harm by politically backing the Taliban causing them to lose all support from the most powerful and mightiest faction in Afghanistan (the Afghan govt).

This is a prime example of being high on gaumutra 《cow piss》and gaugobar 《cow dung》.