India looks likely to scrap multi-calibre rifle contest

[The Great One]

Why did they do that?


Cost.

Not much transfer of technology.

It failed to pass the technical evals.

Most of the developed world with a ahitload of money use these in extreme conditions and have exported them to several nations with success...


Meanwhile you are also using "failed foriegn guns"...


As for INSAS... Yeah an ugly (not known do things like ergonomics),semi auto (prone to jamming) and badly manufactured is a success compared to "failed" guns like M-16,C-805,ACE,B-160..

From where are you getting this BS.
Jamming in Indian and Nepali services was pinned on poor maintenance and has since long been rectified.

 

[GR!FF!N]

As for INSAS... Yeah an ugly (not known do things like ergonomics),semi auto (prone to jamming) and badly manufactured is a success compared to "failed" guns like M-16,C-805,ACE,B-160..

if it is operable in these range of conditions,then why not??

M-16 -Can't be operable in deserts where sands are like talcum powder and is prone to jamming..

Chronic jamming problems with the talcum powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M4 carbine version is more popular because it's lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems also. They like the ability to mount the various optical gunsights and weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the weapon itself is not great in a desert environment. They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinderblock structure common over there and even torso hits cant be reliably counted on to put the enemy down.

The M16 in Iraq

CZ-805-
First, pulling the bolt to the rear is only possible if the safety is off. If the safety is on, bolt will not move back. It may be from the Czech army's operation doctrine, but those of us who are used to operation of AR platforms would find it a bit odd.


The bolt lock on the left is definitely a bolt lock, not a release. Unlike AR's bolt lock, pushing it, even with the bolt locked to rear, will not release the bolt. It is not ambidextrous.


Another problem that could happen is the charging handle striking shooter's thumb. For those who like to place their support hand closer to magazine well, and stick their thumb up, it will be very apparent that it will hurt. Furthermore, the height of rifle prevents placing support hand thumb over the gun.

The last drawback I saw was the selector. It is all within 90 degrees, and with 4 modes, it only takes a small amount to go from one to the another. That means in stressful situation, there could be accidental use of 2 round burst or even full-auto burst.

Gun News Blog: GNB: CZ 805 BREN impression

every gun has some problems..its all on Army who would decide which is going to qualify and which is not..

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

A) they are not as per the requirement of Indian standards ...... If these guns failed in trails , they are also considered in same class. lol ...

And the requirements are?

Semi Automatic ? INSAS is fully automatic .... not ugly and its gone to edge .....

(It is the 25-30?) round INSAS LMG that's full ayuto (I don't even know why you call it a light machine gun).

VS

if it is operable in these range of conditions,then why not??

M-16 -Can't be operable in deserts where sands are like talcum powder and is prone to jamming..

Chronic jamming problems with the talcum powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M4 carbine version is more popular because it's lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems also. They like the ability to mount the various optical gunsights and weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the weapon itself is not great in a desert environment. They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinderblock structure common over there and even torso hits cant be reliably counted on to put the enemy down.

The M16 in Iraq

CZ-805-
First, pulling the bolt to the rear is only possible if the safety is off. If the safety is on, bolt will not move back. It may be from the Czech army's operation doctrine, but those of us who are used to operation of AR platforms would find it a bit odd.


The bolt lock on the left is definitely a bolt lock, not a release. Unlike AR's bolt lock, pushing it, even with the bolt locked to rear, will not release the bolt. It is not ambidextrous.


Another problem that could happen is the charging handle striking shooter's thumb. For those who like to place their support hand closer to magazine well, and stick their thumb up, it will be very apparent that it will hurt. Furthermore, the height of rifle prevents placing support hand thumb over the gun.

The last drawback I saw was the selector. It is all within 90 degrees, and with 4 modes, it only takes a small amount to go from one to the another. That means in stressful situation, there could be accidental use of 2 round burst or even full-auto burst.

Gun News Blog: GNB: CZ 805 BREN impression

every gun has some problems..its all on Army who would decide which is going to qualify and which is not..

I own both M-16 n M-4s and if taken care of they are one of the best guns out there... M-16 has served in Vietnam .. Iraq,Afghanistan,Thailand etx etc!!!
Pak itself had been using it since the 60s! Same goes for M-4.

All guns "jam" if you don't keep em clean ! I've seen AK's jamming (I got a dozen of em)..

The moral always keep em oiled up n clean!

 

[GR!FF!N]

I own both M-16 n M-4s and if taken care of they are one of the best guns out there... M-16 has served in Vietnam .. Iraq,Afghanistan,Thailand etx etc!!!
Pak itself had been using it since the 60s! Same goes for M-4.

All guns "jam" if you don't keep em clean ! I've seen AK's jamming (I got a dozen of em)..

The moral always keep em oiled up n clean!

and may I ask how you're going to keep them clean in desert during a battle???

you see,INSAS has no problem in desert or mud..because it was made that way,and later,rectified versions didn't have any problem with high altitude and very cold weather either..we've seen best guns,so called world beaters failed these...

Beretta ARX-160, Colt M4, and Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) Galil Ace failed during mud trial in India.

Every Gun has some problems,you can't get absolutely perfect gun,you've to live with some defects..but again,its all about Army who is going to choose which one is best for them..

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

and may I ask how you're going to keep them clean in desert during a battle???

you see,INSAS has no problem in desert or mud..because it was made that way,and later,rectified versions didn't have any problem with high altitude and very cold weather either..we've seen best guns,so called world beaters failed these...

Beretta ARX-160, Colt M4, and Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) Galil Ace failed during mud trial in India.

Every Gun has some problems,you can't get absolutely perfect gun,you've to live with some defects..but again,its all about Army who is going to choose which one is best for them..

I font have you clean it every time I shoot it or take it out! Just keep it clean no worries...!

As for INSAS just last year your paramilitary forces were demanding it to be replaced by AK's.. Even your "commandos" are using AK's etc in IOK n North East ...

 

[GR!FF!N]

I font have you clean it every time I shoot it or take it out! Just keep it clean no worries...!

As for INSAS just last year your paramilitary forces were demanding it to be replaced by AK's.. Even your "commandos" are using AK's etc in IOK n North East ...

There is no way you can clean a M-16 during battle..and thats where problem lies..it takes good amount of time to clean a rifle..an average soldier cleans his rifle after every 5-7 days(depending on conditions)..more cleaning means a gun is more demanding,which a soldier can't afford.

yes,because of more stopping power..they want 7.62 rounds,not 5.54..that doesn't make INSAS bad..if that was so,Oman wouldn't buy it(INSAS is primary weapon of 4 countries)..

 

[IndoUS]

Well I guess we need to find a gun maker Or even DRDO and try to make a new gun that fits army's requirement or to optimize the closest gun for our need. Or the amry need to reevaluate its needs to what is physically possible.

 

[Kinetic]

they rate it above all other guns in tender??? or is it because they are foreign guns?

because it was developed keeping in mind high requirements of IA.

 

[Killswitch]

I was hoping the foreign rifles would not be bought. This clears the way for the MCIWS. This weapon can replace the following:

AK 47
SLR FN FAL
INSAS

 

[IndoUS]

I was hoping the foreign rifles would not be bought. This clears the way for the MCIWS. This weapon can replace the following:

AK 47
SLR FN FAL
INSAS

Well I agree, but I also feel that we need to at least get one of these gun makers for technical help on MCIWS. There is still we can learn a lot from them compared to what DRDO or OFB.

 

[maxpayne]

Why not different rifles for cold and hot areas? Why sticking to one option and over-demand. India is a big country and has big army, i can have 2 production for different rifles

 

[Skull and Bones]

Blessing in disguise for the ARDE multicaliber assault rifle.

 

[desimorty]

Why not different rifles for cold and hot areas? Why sticking to one option and over-demand. India is a big country and has big army, i can have 2 production for different rifles

Bad idea. Then the soldier has to learn or relearn reflex firing with a different rifle. 1 rifle every condition.
The problem with INSAS is that its a battlefield assault rifle, not a carbine like AK-47 and hence not a whole lot of use from quick COIN operations. The AK-47 and clones are perfect for this kind of adventure since the good guys can kill bad guys and use their ammo not to mention the full auto feature, and since this the ammo is usually from NORINCO or OFP you don't have to worry about sabotaged ammo.
That being said, multi cal is the future since it will allow captured ammo to be reused against the enemy with a quick change of the barrel and stock. However given its not an immediate concern as the current INSAS can fight a war, its something India can wait on until the GQSR are met well with out relaxed parameters.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

DRDO-ARDE is making a Multi Cal Rifle -

And also an LMG, which is yet to be seen. Hope these pull through.

 

[desimorty]

(It is the 25-30?) round INSAS LMG that's full ayuto (I don't even know why you call it a light machine gun).

Hence not to waste ammo, and that is why INSAS has the option for full auto but not taken by the army. Full auto is not necessary and take a look at the amount of ammo NATO forces used for every kill. Its not economical, the IA believes in good sharp shooting practices and the same with the PA who still love their G3 for good reason.