India/Islam: Muslims lag behind then other minorities in India

[samrat]

It's not as clear cut as that. A huge portion of the Muslim population lives in Uttar Pradesh, one of the largest states of India, but also one of the most backward. Muslims living in Kerala do far well than the Muslims living in Uttar Pradesh. Just because a Muslim belongs to the backward regions of India means he will turn out to be a terrorist. The Indian system (regardless of party) is rampant with corruption, & if that is not resolved, these people will not be uplifted, & they will bring India down. And as I've said before, I believe influential institutions like Dar Uloom Deoband & Jamaat-e-Islami Hind are not only a threat to the future of Indian Muslims, but also to India's future.

Here is a famous fatwa from Dar Uloom Deoband:

" It's illegal for women to work, support family"

Deoband fatwa: It's illegal for women to work, support family - Times Of India

You got that right. Muslims in South India are better off than their Northern brothers and you know what apart from Hyderabad, they never asked for partition either. While UP wallah Muslims sat down and talked about their Nawabi past, Kerala Muslims used their resources to charge ahead.

And as far as Dawood is concerned, he is the son of a police constable. He had the chance to become a model citizen and even could have entered the police force. But he chose crime. So what a person chose to become entirely depends on his attitude.

 

[jayron]

The economic and social conditions of muslims simply comes down to

1.the economic condition of the location they live in . Muslims living in affluent areas Kerala and Tamil Nadu are usually much richer than their Hindu neighbors. Thats because they are usually involved in business and trade. But the majority of India's muslims live in some of the poorest areas of Uttar Pradesh , Bihar and West Bengal.


2. their social condition when they converted to islam. The muslim royalties, zameendars and traders are still rich. But the vast number of slum dwelling muslims are dalit converts. unlike the christians, there aren't well funded missionaries to support dalit muslim converts. So they are languishing in poverty.

 

[samrat]

Fair enough but I am not a politician, i dont have an election to win in UP.

All politicians dont give a **** about you. they only have power on their minds.

Until people start voting intelligently, they will be rewarded for their mistakes.

You deserve the governance you get.

True, until people demand better governance they will have to put up with the crap that is peddled around now.

People gets the govt that they deserve.

 

[Pakistanisage]

It is true that Indian Muslims are victims of Indian government's Institutionalized Discrimination, But they also must be blamed for their plight. Why don't the Indian Muslims band together to Improve their lot. Where are the educated Indian Muslims and why are they not helping their fellow Muslims. The rich Muslims could'nt care less about the condition of their brothers. Where are people like Azim Premjee who have the resources and the know how to help Fellow Muslims. Instead of looking for Govt. help they need to get organized and help themselves ( Upni Madad Aap Karo).

I am tired of lazy people looking for Govt. handouts.

 

[Hello_10]

Well you lot certainly don't. I have seen some of you trying to justify Hindutva on another thread as a for of secularism lol

Sir, Muslims and other minorities in 'Hindu majority India' grew with much faster rate than Hindus in India, reducing population ratio of Hindus from 88% to 78% since freedom, since 1947, then don’t you find liberal Hindutva behind it?

Why don’t you compare "Hindu majority India" with "Islamic Pakistan" where population of minorities like Hindu/ Sikhs are now almost gone making Pakistan now a country of over 97.5% Muslims and over 1.5% Christian and rest Hindu/ Sikhs ? But the things didn’t stop here, we now see Shia and Ahmadi minorities of Muslims on the gun point of Sunni majority who all fall within Muslims itself? isn't Hindutva little better than this current situation of Islamic Pakistan

while at the same time Muhajir Muslims find themselves to be cheated by partition of India in 1947? Mohajir leaders like Altaf Hussein come to India and cry of partition, giving a sense that they could be in a much better position while being with "Hindu majority India" than what they faced in "Islamic Pakistan"? Don’t you think its the attraction of 'Hindutva' of "Hindu Majority India" which has made Pakistan’s Muhajir Muslims believe that they did a mistake when they moved to 'Islamic Pakistan'?

 

[zootinali]

Well you lot certainly don't. I have seen some of you trying to justify Hindutva on another thread as a for of secularism lol

Well that may be the reason for your statement I don`t know , but your first post gave me the impression that you are asking the question why muslims are falling behind ?? and yourself answering by blaming the "failing secularism" of the country as the cause , which made me to believe you are not genuinely interested in the subject(muslims of India) but rather commented to bedmouth our system and that you don`t know about the secularism which if may quote according to wikipedia "the principle of separation between government institutions and the persons mandated to represent the State from religious institutions and religious dignitaries"
I don`t know if their is any provision in the constitution to provide reservation on the basis of ones religion, but if it happens then it would be the true failure of secularism, if you follow the above definition of secularism, morover reservation system is provided on the basis of ones tribe/community/caste irrespective of ones religion. So there are other reasons for failure of muslim people(if indeed there is)..

 

[Paan Singh]

i would request to indians here to stop replying and give justification here to pakistanis.
you know better and its enough.

 

[samrat]

The economic and social conditions of muslims simply comes down to

1.the economic condition of the location they live in . Muslims living in affluent areas Kerala and Tamil Nadu are usually much richer than their Hindu neighbors. Thats because they are usually involved in business and trade. But the majority of India's muslims live in some of the poorest areas of Uttar Pradesh , Bihar and West Bengal.

Also Muslims in this areas valued education and started many Muslim educational institutions for the upliftment of their brothers and sisters.

2. their social condition when they converted to islam. The muslim royalties, zameendars and traders are still rich. But the vast number of slum dwelling muslims are dalit converts. unlike the christians, there aren't well funded missionaries to support dalit muslim converts. So they are languishing in poverty.

Then whats the Ummah doing about this?..also unlike Christian Dalit converts, Muslim Dalit converts are not a new phenomenon.

 

[russellpeters]

Muslims must also introspect. they must become entrepreneurial. they must come out of their isolation.I see many muslims tend to keep among themselves, though that is not the case.

I have many muslim, christian, atheist, wiccan friends. such human contact is very valuable. it gives you a more real view of things, more real than defence.pk or politicians.

over time muslims have been seen as invaders, looters, pillagers, destroyers. you cant have a great vibe in a country which you have violated. Indians can forgive everything even slavery, but the destruction of temples. Now I dont want to get into Babri Masjid, there is just one misfit case.Muslim kings and invaders have destroyed scores of Jain, Hindu and Buddhist temples, not to mention monasteries, universities, and the like.

That is the interesting reason why the average hindu dislikes the british less than the muslim sultanate. they enslaved and probably did more harm, but the muslims came as a threat to our way of life, our soul, our culture.

had the muslims not destroyed numerous places of worship, and it is interesting that most of them where not even 'hindu'... they were jain and buddhist mostly...i think if they had not done that, there would be a lot more goodwill towards muslims in the average hindu mind.

even now the average hindu doesnt 'hate' the average muslim.

 

[samrat]

It is true that Indian Muslims are victims of Indian government's Institutionalized Discrimination, But they also must be blamed for their plight. Why don't the Indian Muslims band together to Improve their lot. Where are the educated Indian Muslims and why are they not helping their fellow Muslims. The rich Muslims dould'nt care less about the condition of their brothers. Where are people like Azim Premjee who have the resources and the know how to help Fellow Muslims. Instead of looking for Govt. help they need to get organized and help themselves ( Upni Madad Aap Karo).

There is no such thing. If you have to become a IAS officer, yo have to pass the Civil Service Exam with high ranks...there are no short cuts.

I am tired of lazy people looking for Govt. handouts.

Amen to that..until Muslims stop behaving like vote banks waiting for Govt handouts, nothing better can be done to them.

 

[Pakistanisage]

There is no such thing. If you have to become a IAS officer, yo have to pass the Civil Service Exam with high ranks...there are no short cuts.

The Instutionalized Indian Government Discrimination is not my Claim. It is the Claim of SACHAR Commission which gave its findings to the Indian Prime Minister. I think you are in DEEP DENIAL. Anyway, I dont want the Indian Muslims to expect any help from the Indian Govt. because none would come. Indian Muslims need to rely on their own resources to lift themselves from poverty and lack of productivity.

Amen to that..until Muslims stop behaving like vote banks waiting for Govt handouts, nothing better can be done to them.

Here , I agree with you. The Indian Muslims should band together to help themselves.

 

[DDLJ]

It's not as clear cut as that. A huge portion of the Muslim population lives in Uttar Pradesh, the largest state of India, but also one of the most backward. Muslims living in Kerala do far well than the Muslims living in Uttar Pradesh. Just because a Muslim belongs to the backward regions of India means he will turn out to be a terrorist. The Indian system (regardless of party) is rampant with corruption, & if that is not resolved, these people will not be uplifted, & they will bring India down. And as I've said before, I believe influential institutions like Dar Uloom Deoband & Jamaat-e-Islami Hind are not only a threat to the future of Indian Muslims, but also to India's future.

Here is a famous fatwa from Dar Uloom Deoband:

" It's illegal for women to work, support family"

Deoband fatwa: It's illegal for women to work, support family - Times Of India

About 80% of Muslims in India are considered backward and reserved under OBC and SC category in India. Reservation in India is meant for fast upliftment of backward groups but Muslim religious clerics are against reservation for Muslims. Thing is they are backward because they were not allowed same like low caste Hindus for upliftment because Muslims after coming in India started their own caste system of Ajlaf and Ashraf. Many times votes of Muslims are decided by community leader in Mosques. Neither Indian constitution, government and Hindu Majority are responsible for the backwardness of Muslims. But we need to get rid of communal riots and violence.

Ulemas do create some issues like their constant opposition to Family planning(But Shia groups support family planning and less Children in India). But I know many urban Muslims supporting family planning.
Other notable opposition was towards Domestic Violence Law(a person who beats his wife or Children can be arrested) but government never listened to them and made the law. Other notable case of "Imrana Rape Case" but government never listened to these groups because attitude of Ulema causing national outcry.

I am from Bihar and Muslim women from my states rarely wear Burqa ( although I saw some in Patna) but I see Burqa culture more widespread in South India and Uttar Pradesh.

The Instutionalized Indian Government Discrimination is not my Claim. It is the Claim of SACHAR Commission which gave its findings to the Inidan Prime Minister. I think you are in DEEP DENIAL. Anyway, I dont want the Indian Muslims to expect any help from the Indian Govt. because none would come. Indian Muslims need to rely on their own resources to lift themselves from poverty and lack of productivity.

Here , I agree with you. The Indian Muslims should band together to help themselves.

Sachar commission talked about under-representation of Muslims instead of institutionalized discrimination what you are trying to claim.

 

[Hello_10]

The Sachar Commission Report in 2006 gave detailed statistics on how the overall Indian Muslim population fared worse than Dalits in all fields of life. Here is an excerpt:



Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables'

Ho sir you are sitting in Pakistan and talking about over 100 year old ‘untouchable’ stories. go to capital of UP, Lucknow, and tell me which tea/ food shop of this city make difference among people, regardless any religion or caste? You just don’t have any idea of India. There is no government or private organization, where you find any difference. Any theatre, shop, restaurant, please name one? there is none/ zero, where they ask about caste/ religion before they serve the customers

Muslims couldn’t perform so well in India but others did pretty good and so we have so poor results of Muslims in engineering/ medical/ MBA tests. ‘cut off’ of engineering/ medical/ CA/ MBAs in India is very high as compare to rest of the world. just check GRE/ GMAT scores, Indian students perform excellent than other nationals and if you want to survive in this much competitive environment, you gotto be like this, simple…..

For example, is it fair to put Indian sports men with Europeans, its silly as Indian sports men don’t stand in front of European Athletics . India is still a country where it is said, "those who study hard go high and those who waste time in sports have no future." And that’s the reason I support reservation for Muslims and government has also made it true from this year. We hope to see many like Mr Azim Premji who will be even richer than Saudi king in future, making India the country of rich muslims in world.

 

[samrat]

The Instutionalized Indian Government Discrimination is not my Claim. It is the Claim of SACHAR Commission which gave its findings to the Inidan Prime Minister. I think you are in DEEP DENIAL. Anyway, I dont want the Indian Muslims to expect any help from the Indian Govt. because none would come. Indian Muslims need to rely on their own resources to lift themselves from poverty and lack of productivity.

Come to south India and see the amount of political & economical power the Muslim possesses. Azim Premjee is also an Indian and so are the Khans in Bollywood & Pathans of Cricket. If you have the talent nothing stops you, but may be all the achievements of south Indian Muslims are negated by the North Indian Muslims especially in the ares of UP & Bihar.

 

[JohnyD]

The articles compares Muslims with minorities like Christians and Sikhs but the fact is, it is not just Muslim but even Hindus are not doing better than these minority communities… so does it mean, Hindus are deprived of their rights to compete or do better than other communities? Answer is pretty simple; its NO so how does it apply to Muslims? People out here are taking this thread in wrong direction; ideally we should have been discussing what Indian Muslims have to do to catch up with other minor communities..and secondly, I don’t call Muslims in India as minority..they make up substantial part of India’s populations..