India/Islam: Muslims lag behind then other minorities in India

[Hello_10]

This is clearly evidence that secularism in India does not exist

First, im supporter of giving reservation to Muslims as now we find Muslims not that much competitive enough to face competition of engineering/ medical/ CA etc examinations, hardly 2% to 3% from this community qualify in these exams under general quota while their population ratio is around now 18% in India. And also, I support giving reservations to Muslims within 50% quota for reservation, as, we at least need to have 50% seats available for general quota.
(Also for those who are unaware of reservation system of India, they would know that under general quota, all the candidates are selected regardless from which caste/ religion they belong to, but then under rest of 50% seats of reservation quota, students of backward caste are given admission/ jobs.)

from here, there is question, why do Muslims need reservation? 50% reservation for hindu backward is because of their backward background they had for so long than forward caste. but about Muslims, they were always categorized as forward caste in India as they were . And also Muslims backwards like Ahmadiya Muslims etc. already fall within reservation of Hindu backward caste? then why do we need any reservation on the basis of religion, while reservation in India is provided on the basis of backwardness only? And also, whats the reason that Sikhs and Christians are among the highest income religious people, above than Hindus in India, while Muslims are so backward? even if general quota of engineering/ medical/ MBA are always seen to be dominated by Hindu forward caste, Sikhs and Christians perform pretty good on the side of business activities and are among the higher income group than Hindus in India. so why Muslims aren’t that competent in India while they were also among the richest in India at the time of freedom, in 1947? Population ratio of Muslims have increased from 8% to 18% since 1947 but why couldn’t they improve their education level/ competiveness with same rate?

Why do we find the second richest muslim of the world an Indian, Mr Azim Premji, second after Saudi King, and have seen Muslim president/ CMs in India but overall performance of Muslims is so low in India?

 

[lem34]

As if you know what secularism is,

Well you lot certainly don't. I have seen some of you trying to justify Hindutva on another thread as a for of secularism lol

 

[53fd]

Some might argue that Indian Muslims drop out of school early, & start working on family businesses or other things. Here is an interesting fact: while Indian Muslims have lower educational levels than other religious groups in India, they have higher education levels than Pakistani Muslims. But overall, their condition is even worse than that of Dalits in India, forget Pakistani Muslims. Educational levels doesn't always translate into good socioeconomic conditions for people.

It is foolhardy to say that there is no discrimination against minorities in India. I would argue that the Scheduled Tribes (ST), Scheduled Caste (SC) etc quota system has been a huge failure. But there is a huge problem with the Indian Muslim population as well, a huge portion of which lives in Uttar Pradesh, now becoming famous for its "Muslim slums & ghettos", & Madrassah education. Indian Muslims need to acclimatize themselves better in mainstream Indian society & be involved in the affairs of India, make themselves count. I would argue that the Madrassah education in India is one of the reasons why Indian Muslims lag behind, & institutions such as Dar Uloom Deoband & Jamaat-e-Islami Hind are detrimental to not only the future of Indian Muslims, but also of India.

Overall, there are a myriad of reasons why Indian Muslims lag behind, ranging from India's less-than-perfect social system, to the Muslim institutions, & the Muslim people themselves.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Some might argue that Indian Muslims drop out of school early, & start working on family businesses or other things. Here is an interesting fact: while Indian Muslims have lower educational levels than other religious groups in India, they have higher education levels than Pakistani Muslims. But overall, their condition is even worse than that of Dalits in India, forget Pakistani Muslims. Educational levels doesn't always translate into good socioeconomic conditions for people.

It is foolhardy to say that there is no discrimination against minorities in India. But there is a huge problem with the Indian Muslim population as well, a huge portion of which lives in Uttar Pradesh, now becoming famous for its "Muslim slums & ghettos", & Madrassah education. Indian Muslims need to acclimatize themselves better in mainstream Indian society & be involved in the affairs of India, make themselves count. I would argue that the Madrassah education in India is one of the reasons why Indian Muslims lag behind, & institutions such as Dar Uloom Deoband & Jamaat-e-Islami Hind are detrimental to not only the future of Indian Muslims, but also of India.

Overall, there are a myriad of reasons why Indian Muslims lag behind, ranging from India's less-than-perfect social system, to the Muslim institutions, & the Muslim people themselves.

I think this is a myth propogated that they are doing worse than Dalits . Do you have any sources for this ?

 

[53fd]

I think this is a myth propogated that they are doing worse than Dalits . Do you have any sources for this ?

The Sachar Commission Report in 2006 gave detailed statistics on how the overall Indian Muslim population fared worse than Dalits in all fields of life. Here is an excerpt:

According to the report, produced by a committee led by a former Indian chief justice, Rajender Sachar, Muslims were now worse off than the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. Some 52% of Muslim men were unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. Among Muslim women, 91% were unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women. Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 couldn't read or write. While making up 11% of the population, Muslims accounted for 40% of India's prison population. Meanwhile, they held less than 5% of government jobs.According to the report, produced by a committee led by a former Indian chief justice, Rajender Sachar, Muslims were now worse off than the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. Some 52% of Muslim men were unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. Among Muslim women, 91% were unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women. Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 couldn't read or write. While making up 11% of the population, Muslims accounted for 40% of India's prison population. Meanwhile, they held less than 5% of government jobs.

Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables'

 

[samrat]

Indian state gives equal oppurtunity to everybody .Its upto the Muslims to decide whether they want to become another Azim Premjee or another Dawood Ibrahim.

 

[Hello_10]

Some might argue that Indian Muslims drop out of school early, & start working on family businesses or other things. Here is an interesting fact: while Indian Muslims have lower educational levels than other religious groups in India, they have higher education levels than Pakistani Muslims. But overall, their condition is even worse than that of Dalits in India, forget Pakistani Muslims. Educational levels doesn't always translate into good socioeconomic conditions for people.

It is foolhardy to say that there is no discrimination against minorities in India. I would argue that the Scheduled Tribes (ST), Scheduled Caste (SC) etc quota system has been a huge failure. But there is a huge problem with the Indian Muslim population as well, a huge portion of which lives in Uttar Pradesh, now becoming famous for its "Muslim slums & ghettos", & Madrassah education. Indian Muslims need to acclimatize themselves better in mainstream Indian society & be involved in the affairs of India, make themselves count. I would argue that the Madrassah education in India is one of the reasons why Indian Muslims lag behind, & institutions such as Dar Uloom Deoband & Jamaat-e-Islami Hind are detrimental to not only the future of Indian Muslims, but also of India.

Overall, there are a myriad of reasons why Indian Muslims lag behind, ranging from India's less-than-perfect social system, to the Muslim institutions, & the Muslim people themselves.

This is funny that even Lucknow, capital of UP, is known as city of Nawabs but now we find Muslims among the poor. But why, its they who have to find out as now per capita income of Sikhs is around 2 times to Hindus in India, then is there any reason why? Those who tried to perform good other than telling 'Nawabi stories' like Muslims, are now middle class like Sikhs / Hindus and live in new and better colonies of Lucknow, while old Lucknow of Muslim majority is now very poor.

also Sir, first you would check the datas and you will find population ratio of Hindus have reduced from 88% at the time of freedom in 1947 to around 78% right now. and here, is there any reason why those families who have 2-3 kids would grow, regardless any religion, but families made of 6 to 8 kids won’t grow with same rate? Simply you can’t give enough time to educate and provide enough resources to your kids if you have over 5-6 kids? Even if Christians faced the highest rate of population growth since 1947, more than Muslims in India, they always had good support from the Western nations who give heavy fund for conversion and then they support the converted Christian families also. But what about Muslims, why cant they learn from Hindus who generally have 2-3 kids and try to give them good education?

 

[samrat]

The Sachar Commission Report in 2006 gave detailed statistics on how the overall Indian Muslim population fared worse than Dalits in all fields of life. Here is an excerpt:



Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables'

Muslim women are unemployed bcs they are not let out of the house. They occupy less jobs bcs of less education. Even to become a sweeper you have to be 4th pass and a clerk 10th pass. How can Govt give job when they don't even meet the minimum criteria.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

The Sachar Commission Report in 2006 gave detailed statistics on how the overall Indian Muslim population fared worse than Dalits in all fields of life. Here is an excerpt:



Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables'

Indian state , people and muslims themselves need to do something about this .

Btw , how old was the survey quoted in this sachar report ? Because today Indian muslim population is aorund 15 % , in 2001 it was around 13.4 % and this report says India has a muslim population of 11 % .

I wonder how old the data is on the basis of which this report was prepared because Indian muslim population was 11 % in the early 90s .

 

[russellpeters]

lol look whos come knocking...last time I heard your minorities were begging for citizenship here.

I am a big opponent of reservation. reservation is a gimmick of governments who have failed at

a) providing easy employment opportunities. why does everyone need to be an engineer ?

b) failing at local level to provide good public schooling. poor people go to BAD municipal schools and middle class people go to better schools. then they cant compete at higher levels. so what does the government do ? instead of rectifying the ROT in the public education system which is for all purposes DEFUNCT in India, it gives you reservations on every phucking thing!

these are babus and these bureaucrats, all these "officials" are products of reservations, recommendations, the quintessential "sifarishi" lals...and now you complain about a broken administration system.

frankly the poor must not be fooled by this magic panacea. They must ask for

a) better schooling in all areas

b) better jobs that dont require 2 phds

c) better infrastructure.

and Pakistani friends, you have a lot more to do than us. atleast they are not running away. please have some self-respect.

 

[53fd]

Indian state gives equal oppurtunity to everybody .Its upto the Muslims to decide whether they want to become another Azim Premjee or another Dawood Ibrahim.

It's not as clear cut as that. A huge portion of the Muslim population lives in Uttar Pradesh, the largest state of India, but also one of the most backward. Muslims living in Kerala do far well than the Muslims living in Uttar Pradesh. Just because a Muslim belongs to the backward regions of India means he will turn out to be a terrorist. The Indian system (regardless of party) is rampant with corruption, & if that is not resolved, these people will not be uplifted, & they will bring India down. And as I've said before, I believe influential institutions like Dar Uloom Deoband & Jamaat-e-Islami Hind are not only a threat to the future of Indian Muslims, but also to India's future.

Here is a famous fatwa from Dar Uloom Deoband:

" It's illegal for women to work, support family"

Deoband fatwa: It's illegal for women to work, support family - Times Of India

 

[russellpeters]

It's not as clear cut as that. A huge portion of the Muslim population lives in Uttar Pradesh, one of the largest states of India, but also one of the most backward. Muslims living in Kerala do far well than the Muslims living in Uttar Pradesh. Just because a Muslim belongs to the backward regions of India means he will turn out to be a terrorist. The Indian system (regardless of party) is rampant with corruption, & if that is not resolved, these people will not be uplifted, & they will bring India down. And as I've said before, I believe institutions like Dar Uloom Deoband & Jamaat-e-Islami Hind are not only a threat to the future of Indian Muslims, but also to India's future.

Here is a famous fatwa from Dar Uloom Deoband:

" It's illegal for women to work, support family"

Deoband fatwa: It's illegal for women to work, support family - Times Of India

they are not the Government. If it would have been with me, such quasi judicial entities would not be allowed to exist.

and then some say it is due to Hindutva. for the most part, I have seen MANY muslim families that dont allow their girls to study over 10th.

 

[samrat]

lol look whos come knocking...last time I heard your minorities were begging for citizenship here.

I am a big opponent of reservation. reservation is a gimmick of governments who have failed at

a) providing easy employment opportunities. why does everyone need to be an engineer ?

b) failing at local level to provide good public schooling. poor people go to BAD municipal schools and middle class people go to better schools. then they cant compete at higher levels. so what does the government do ? instead of rectifying the ROT in the public education system which is for all purposes DEFUNCT in India, it gives you reservations on every phucking thing!

these are babus and these bureaucrats, all these "officials" are products of reservations, recommendations, the quintessential "sifarishi" lals...and now you complain about a broken administration system.

frankly the poor must not be fooled by this magic panacea. They must ask for

a) better schooling in all areas

b) better jobs that dont require 2 phds

c) better infrastructure.

and Pakistani friends, you have a lot more to do than us. atleast they are not running away. please have some self-respect.

Your points are politically incorrect.

 

[russellpeters]

Your points are politically incorrect.

Fair enough but I am not a politician, i dont have an election to win in UP.

All politicians dont give a **** about you. they only have power on their minds.

Until people start voting intelligently, they will be rewarded for their mistakes.

You deserve the governance you get.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

i am curious to know all other minorities in India except muslims which collectively make up about 7 % of India's population are doing so well infact much better than even hindus but muslims who make up around 15 % of the population manage to do worse than even the worst of Hindus .

India does have discrimination against muslims at some level but this phenomenon surely has something more to do with than just that.