India in Afghanistan

[Ahmad]

Afghani Pashtuns will not do anything, because of a number of reasons:

let me go through every point you presented:

1) They share the same heritage as Pakistani Pashtuns (Pakistani Pashtuns are their brothers), and Pakistani Pashtuns love Pakistan.

yes, they share similar culture and heritage with Pakistani Pakhtuns, but do they share anything with the vast majority of pakistan which is comprised of Urdu speakers, Panjabis, Sindhis and balouchs? With due respect to all my pashtoon brothers and sisters, but why should the pashtoons be unltimate point of every decistion in pakistan and Afghanistan? How about Panjabis, Sindis, Tajiks, Balouchs?

2) They are poor and underdeveloped.

Yes, unfortunately, this long imposed war have turned us like this.

3) Taliban (Pashtun) is a tool/toy of the ISI. Which is why Afghanistan has been Pakistan's playground.

Agree.

4) Pakistani Pashtuns outnumber the Afghani Pashtuns, and are fierce supporters of Pakistan.

Why do you keep on mixing up the pashtoons of 2 countries? yes, pakistani pashtoons are patriotic, i know that, but how can you say that the pashtoons of afghanistan have the same feeling for pakistan? As a matter of fact they want those pashtoon areas of pakistan to be part of afghanstan, it has been their(afghan pashtoons) desier and gov policy since the birth of paksitan and till now, even the taliban have the same thing. otherwise the taliban would have signed clearacne of durand line long ago while they were in power. and dont forget that the taliban of today is not the same as taliban's yesterday, they are tired of isi's double game with them, once they clear their head of the fights, you will then see their policy with regards to pakistan.

5) Most of the Afghan troops are addicted to poppy, and even the Americans and NATO forces have problems in trying to "keep them on mission/track". Pakistan's army is one of the best in the world.

That is hardly relevant to what we talk. Although i quite agree with you about this problem in afghanistan's army.

6) Afghanistan is a fragmented country, where networks and tribal areas "own"/hold different areas. For example: the Logar province is in the hold of the Haqqani network, the Kunar Province is in the hold of the Hekmetyar network, and these are different factions. Afghans have no sense to loyalty, they are easily bribed and they'll do anything for money.

This fragmentation which is sadly based on ethnic divisions is the number one reason why pashtoons of afghanistan will be firm to put their claim on NWFP, the country is seeing ethnic based nationalism, every ethnic group will look to boost their power, how can the pashtoons of paksitan do this? they will only be able to do that if they take NWFP and make it part of afghanistan, it makes sense, doesnt it? but if the country is not divided on ethnic basis, there will be a national unity, people will think about afghanistan as united country rather than having ethnic desires. i just hope i did explain things exactly to you, because my communication skills are not that good and people dont get my point most of the time.

And btw, Pashtuns constitute of over 40% of Afghanistan's total population, which does make them the largest ethnicity in terms of population in Afghanistan.

So? and does that mean they wont speak about NWFP?

it looks like you delibarately ignore the points i make.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

It's good India is in Afghanistan. If they bring peace and prosperity to the country who are we to talk, lets focus on our own internal affairs.

 

[F-16_Falcon]

we need to give more aid to afghan govt so that they do not favor indians. everyone likes money.

 

[Ahmad]

The 100 year lease with British India finished in 1993, and all Pashtoon rulers of Afghanistan including the Taliban have refused to recognize the Durrand line.

With due respect Ejaz brother, in historical documents there is no time limit like 100 years for this durand line. Pashton Amir Abdul Rahman Khan, the butcher of Tajiks and Hazaras gave it away to the British, this issue of 100 years is raised by Pashtons in Afghanistan to make a poin, it does have no credibility. The same Amir gave the energy/ water resource rich areas of Afghanistan which is poplated by tajiks to the russians, but you have never seen a single tajik which now claims on those territories.

 

[Ahmad]

It's good India is in Afghanistan. If they bring peace and prosperity to the country who are we to talk, lets focus on our own internal affairs.

Pakistan and Iran shouldnt be igored, they are our neighbours which we have the longest border with them followed by tajikistan. these 3 countries are much involved in afghanistan, and based on mutual respect they should be given assurances and establish good relations, but the same thing is expected from the others.

 

[F-16_Falcon]

Pakistani Pashtuns outnumber the Afghani Pashtuns, and are fierce supporters of Pakistan.

i have doubt about this. FATA, all regions near to afghanistan has very strong anti-pakistan sentiments. after the flood they way noushera and other areas shown anger i really have doubt. what they want, no one knows!


the best way to deal with it is spread modern education in the tribal pashtun areas.

 

[F-16_Falcon]

i have doubt about this. FATA, all regions near to afghanistan has very strong anti-pakistan sentiments. after the flood they way noushera and other areas shown anger i really have doubt. what they want, no one knows!


the best way to deal with it is spread modern education in the tribal pashtun areas.

will india fuel this anti-pakistan sentiment if they are in afghanistan? the best way to deal is giving more money to afghan govt to bring them in favor of us. money speaks.

 

[F-16_Falcon]

Yeah unfortunately history can't teach an old dog new tricks... Let em learn the hard way.

are you calling afghans dog?

 

[Nalwa]

I think he meant Indians.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

are you calling afghans dog?

Do you have a brain?

 

[Ahmad]

are you calling afghans dog?

he was simply using a common saying to make his point. he didnt call anybody dog.

 

[F-16_Falcon]

I think he meant Indians.

either i agree with him. both are equally responsible for unrest in FATA. is there anyone do not agree with me?

 

[pakdefender]

The 'gath-jor' between anti-Pakistan elements in the afghan/pashtoon population and india started right after Pakistan's independence in 1947.

We got independence in August of 1947 and soon after in Sept of 1947 in the meeting of the NWFP congress at Charsadda , Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan put forward the demand for pashtunistan.

this was music to the ears of indian-hindus in the congress who could never digest the fact that Pakistan was to become a new country.

In 1967 in Delhi again under the chairman ship of Mehr Chand Khanna the former Minister of finance minster of NWFP the 'United Pakhtunistan Front' (UPF) was formed and the reason was the same.

Here are some documents related to this ( these were posted before also )

Afghanistan - Pakistan documents - by Paul Wolf

 

[53fd]

It's good India is in Afghanistan. If they bring peace and prosperity to the country who are we to talk, lets focus on our own internal affairs.

As long as they don't use the Afghan territory to launch proxy wars into Pakistan, I don't care how long they stay there. Tell them to dissolve their consulate in Kandahar that supports the rebels in Balochistan, and actually work on development than maintaining their proxy war in Pakistan. Pakistan does not like proxy wars against it, and can run havoc in India's states as well (which have a higher chance of splitting away than Balochistan). Pakistan has not treated Afghanistan with great respect I admit, but they were the ones that repeatedly wanted to split NWFP away from Pakistan; and Pakistan had to respond to Afghanistan's endeavors. Pakistan still loves the Afghani people, but their leadership has conspired against Pakistan numerous times, and Pakistan needs a Pakistan-friendly government that does not cause trouble to it. All I'll say about Afghanistan is: forget Pashtunistan and all those things, Pakistan is too strong for that, forget your hatred for Pakistan and try to focus on building friendly, brotherly relations with Pakistan. Pakistan has always given a home to the Afghan people, which is why over 5 million Afghanis are still in Pakistan today, and we let them live there because they are our brothers. We just demand the same amount of respect from you, and that you don't conspire against us or let your territory be used against us by anyone else. India does not share a border with Afghanistan, Pakistan does. Remember Karzai's words (despite his hatred for Pakistan): "India can only be a friend, but Pakistan is a brother".

 

[53fd]

i have doubt about this. FATA, all regions near to afghanistan has very strong anti-pakistan sentiments. after the flood they way noushera and other areas shown anger i really have doubt. what they want, no one knows!


the best way to deal with it is spread modern education in the tribal pashtun areas.

If you know how the situation in Afghanistan and the FATA regions work, they have no national law, only what the tribal leaders say. And provinces in Afghanistan are fragmented, because it is split up into different tribal areas governed by their respective tribal leaders. Pakistan has not interfered in their matters since 1947, given them full autonomy and had an open border with Afghanistan so that the Pashtuns of Pakistan and Afghanistan can intermingle freely. This non-interventionism is the reason why the tribal areas haven't launched a separatist movement against the government of Pakistan. Pakistan's army has only fought in those tribal areas that have launched suicide bombings in the other cities of Pakistan. They have not fought, unlike India, to curb out separatist movements; but because terrorists from these tribal areas attack other cities, such as Karachi, Lahore etc.