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India holds all the cards in the Indo-Pacific

As I always say, ask for specifics rather than copy pasting same comments over and over. Or else your bla bla bla is ignored.




We'll start at right at the beginning of your post. Where is the evidence that Pakistan wants india?

As I always say, ask for specifics rather than copy pasting same comments over and over. Or else your bla bla bla is ignored.




You say a lot but you NEVER back it up with facts. Just conjectures. Anyone can talk, but not many can prove their words are real. Just lies, propaganda, fake news and hot air. You do a lot of that.
 
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That makes you an annoyance in the region. You try to compare, compete, desire what India has in geopolitics.
Besides that no, Pakistan is known because of it's conflict with India not something great to be known for. The theory of punching above the weight itself is a pretty emasculating statement similar to what made by Bhutto at UNSC. 'Mighty India attacking'.


Annoyance w.r.t India yes...that puts India role as a hegemony in the region to the back burner. If India think Pakistan makes it annoyed and terrorize the nation, it turns into Pak strength. Creating terror in the adversaries rank and file is highly sought out factor in war and peace...blame India here which constantly demonizes Pakistan and makes it larger than life...Pakistan need to seek parity at all cost, notwithstanding India bigger size and resources.

This is not card game to compare number of aircrafts one has. What matters is the type of aircraft, geography, and skillset/training. similarly, I like how you carefully excluded Navy.
Because you spend more on your military in %GDP it's only natural you maintain large forces, hoping to take over Kashmir someday. The theory that India is going to attack is a joke, almost all the time Pakistan tried to take over Kashmir by force. Keeps trying, and seems like that's the only way military can keep making money off public, apart from the business they run.


Numbers do matter when you are up against a much bigger enemy, Pakistan airforce pilots are a class act...India pilots are nowhere, check the kill of PAF against IAF....16:100 plus, Pakistan vs. India. Check the 27th feb 2019 events.

Pakistan has about 44% of Kashmir, India and Pakistan held, excluding the China held Kashmir...India is shying away from giving any power to the Kashmiris, holding through brute force.

quote:
The official IAF losses are chronicled in an award-winning air war history by military historian P.V.S Jagan Mohan and Samir Chopra, which details the 66 IAF operational aircraft lost to PAF action and the nine aircraft lost to accidents. By contrast, PAF attrition was 12 aircraft destroyed due to enemy action and five lost to accidents. This means that an airforce 3.5 times the size of the PAF suffered an attrition ratio of 5:1 in favour of the PAF.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1204925
 
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As I always say, ask for specifics rather than copy pasting same comments over and over. Or else your bla bla bla is ignored.
Don't bother with him. He isn't actually interested in "irrefutable" evidence, only in his own confirmation bias. And this article is clearly making him butthurt
 
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Annoyance w.r.t India yes...that puts India role as a hegemony in the region to the back burner. If India think Pakistan makes it annoyed and terrorize the nation, it turns into Pak strength. Creating terror in the adversaries rank and file is highly sought out factor in war and peace...blame India here which constantly demonizes Pakistan and makes it larger than life...Pakistan need to seek parity at all cost, notwithstanding India bigger size and resources.
Like I said, India sees Pakistan as an annoyance, the threat perception largely subsided. Pakistan cannot afford to fight a war at least now and India is using the opportunity to it's advantage.
Seeking terror should I say terrorism as a means to solve an issue does not help the case for Pakistan. That's why Pakistan have a pretty bad image and lack much support internationally.

Numbers do matter when you are up against a much bigger enemy, Pakistan airforce pilots are a class act...India pilots are nowhere, check the kill of PAF against IAF....16:100 plus, Pakistan vs. India. Check the 27th feb 2019 events.
I was expecting the same 27 feb, but what did you gain by all that? A museum piece air craft at a huge cost economical prospects. Pakistanis lives in the past, when they had some parity socioeconomically with India. In the past, like just a few decades back your air force was relatively stronger had better kill ratios. But today you are just a reminiscence of what you were. That's why despite India attacking Pakistan, not a disputed region but Pakistan's province, just sat there and watched and avoided any escalation by all means. Imagine if the reverse happened the moment a Pakistani jet enters Indian population centers and drop a bomb it'll be war.

Pakistan has about 44% of Kashmir, India and Pakistan held, excluding the China held Kashmir...India is shying away from giving any power to the Kashmiris, holding through brute force.
One which you conquered from a weak defenseless princely state.
Also, Kashmiris are ruling the state, only few instances where the center took over mainly due to unstable governments.
 
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This is a good article that makes some excellent points. I really like how he described India as a "swing state," because that is what India essentially is. India is one of the only major world powers that has not completely fallen into one camp. Although that has brought challenges of its own, it gives India leverage over all the other major powers in the Indo-Pacific (Russia, India, China) as all of their strategies to dominate Eurasia revolve around securing India's support in the Indo-Pacific in some way. And going by the "swing state" example, India can be compared to Florida. It is clear that the direction India takes with its foreign policy will determine the geopolitical future of Eurasia

Lolz actually its this swing state thing that makes India unreliable. No one trusts India coz they can change face anytime. Yeah u guys have a huge population n hence a big market n world would like to do business with u. But, when it comes to geostrategy and crunch situations, india would not be trusted. And believe me, india hardly have any sway over east asia n Pacific region. This is just a delusional dumb article. East asian countries have bitter war histories and not even US can do anything abt it, wat makes u think they would even listen to india.
 
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Maybe the fact that no other country in Asia has a more strategic position than India on the Indian Ocean? Also the fact that India has the second most powerful Navy in Asia(after China). Japan is held back in this regard do to its Constitution, and no other country Asia has the geostrategic position, economy, and power projection that India does. And I hate to burst your bubble, but the East Asian countries are not only listening to us but are also seeking our help. Same with US and Russia.
 
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That makes you an annoyance in the region. You try to compare, compete, desire what India has in geopolitics.
Besides that no, Pakistan is known because of it's conflict with India not something great to be known for. The theory of punching above the weight itself is a pretty emasculating statement similar to what made by Bhutto at UNSC. 'Mighty India attacking'.


This is not card game to compare number of aircrafts one has. What matters is the type of aircraft, geography, and skillset/training. similarly, I like how you carefully excluded Navy.
Because you spend more on your military in %GDP it's only natural you maintain large forces, hoping to take over Kashmir someday. The theory that India is going to attack is a joke, almost all the time Pakistan tried to take over Kashmir by force. Keeps trying, and seems like that's the only way military can keep making money off public, apart from the business they run.


Yeah, and yet these are not shown in reality. Similar to classic 10 Hindu = 1 Mard e Momin theory. More martial, more powerful, etc... etc...

You are usually one of the smarter Indians posting around here but your suggestion that India will not attack Pakistan is nonsensical and false. India is constantly on the front foot, constantly finding innovative new ways to attack Pakistan. Your own government openly boasts of isolating Pakistan. You regularly attack Pakistan on multiple fronts in a hybrid economic, intelligence based, proxy, unconventional and at times conventional war.

India has for decade after decade remained simultaneously both irrationally paranoid and appropriately concerned over losing its tenuous grip on the state of Kashmir, a frame of mind that betrays India's own sense of inevitability - that what was never rightly India's to begin with will sooner or later be formally lost.

This is all very obvious though, and your government acknowledges the reality that India wants and needs to constantly attack Pakistan. I think you know all this really though. No need to pretend otherwise.

I mean, if I were India, I would certainly attack my biggest threat sitting on my doorstep. It's even fair to say that the feeling is mutual. Both our nations attack one another with terminal ferocity. It has no chance of abating until either the Kashmir issue is resolved or one of our nations is finished. Even if the Kashmir issue is resolved in fact, there is a chance the cold war between our nations will still continue.

Might as well buckle up and enjoy the ride.
 
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You are usually one of the smarter Indians posting around here but your suggestion that India will not attack Pakistan is nonsensical and false. India is constantly on the front foot, constantly finding innovative new ways to attack Pakistan. Your own government openly boasts of isolating Pakistan. You regularly attack Pakistan on multiple fronts in a hybrid economic, intelligence based, proxy, unconventional and at times conventional war.

India has for decade after decade remained simultaneously both irrationally paranoid and appropriately concerned over losing its tenuous grip on the state of Kashmir, a frame of mind that betrays India's own sense of inevitability - that what was never rightly India's to begin with will sooner or later be formally lost.

This is all very obvious though, and your government acknowledges the reality that India wants and needs to constantly attack Pakistan. I think you know all this really though. No need to pretend otherwise.

I mean, if I were India, I would certainly attack my biggest threat sitting on my doorstep. It's even fair to say that the feeling is mutual. Both our nations attack one another with terminal ferocity. It has no chance of abating until either the Kashmir issue is resolved or one of our nations is finished. Even if the Kashmir issue is resolved in fact, there is a chance the cold war between our nations will still continue.

Might as well buckle up and enjoy the ride.
At least you are acknowledging that what India is doing to Paksitan, Pakistan has attempted to do to India earlier by supporting Kashmiri and Khalistani militants. Everything India does against Pakistan is a result of that.

Although, things were not always so bad. Vajpayee actually held talks with Musharaff and Kashmiri seperatists, and at one point, it even looked like a major breakthrough would be made. Then of course Kargil happened.

If Pakistan would stop supporting UN-designated terror groups operating on its soil just because they hurt India, perhaps there could be an environment more conducive to holding dialogues between Pakistan, India, and the Separatists. After all, even Modi made an effort to improve ties with Pakistan at the beginning of his first term.
 
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Please provide clean air to Indians first before trying to become any kind of super power.
upload_2019-8-1_18-33-49.png
 
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At least you are acknowledging that what India is doing to Paksitan, Pakistan has attempted to do to India earlier by supporting Kashmiri and Khalistani militants. Everything India does against Pakistan is a result of that.

Although, things were not always so bad. Vajpayee actually held talks with Musharaff and Kashmiri seperatists, and at one point, it even looked like a major breakthrough would be made. Then of course Kargil happened.

If Pakistan would stop supporting UN-designated terror groups operating on its soil just because they hurt India, perhaps there could be an environment more conducive to holding dialogues between Pakistan, India, and the Separatists. After all, even Modi made an effort to improve ties with Pakistan at the beginning of his first term.

"Everything India does against Pakistan is a result of that"

Starting timelines at a point that suits your narrative is pointless. I could very easily discuss mukhti bahini or even start at 1947 and India's original annexation of Kashmir without a plebiscite, or the Junagadh hypocrisy etc etc.
 
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You are usually one of the smarter Indians posting around here but your suggestion that India will not attack Pakistan is nonsensical and false. India is constantly on the front foot, constantly finding innovative new ways to attack Pakistan. Your own government openly boasts of isolating Pakistan. You regularly attack Pakistan on multiple fronts in a hybrid economic, intelligence based, proxy, unconventional and at times conventional war.
Take a look at history, India is fine with the status quo. That is, LOC as Border such a deal was close in the early 2000 but things took a wrong turn. India was always the defending force when Pakistan forcefully tried to change the status quo with military. Even in 71, no matter how you justify it, it was Pakistan who drew the first blood.

Speaking of proxy, no. Your claim is unsubstantiated. India cannot possibly drown Pakistan in debts, neither the terrorism inside your country is India's fault. This is similar situation like we had in North East. The internal insurgency is far away from Pakistan and similarly far away in case of India too.(BLA, TTP etc...) There may have been attempts to help these insurgents but India is not funding BLA. Instead, they are supported probably by Afghan Taliban, and Iranian groups (not the state). TTP again have deep links with AT after all they are their brethren. Claiming India supporting them is just a reaction on India's allegation of Pak support for terrorism in India. Which is substantiated by evidence.

India has for decade after decade remained simultaneously both irrationally paranoid and appropriately concerned over losing its tenuous grip on the state of Kashmir, a frame of mind that betrays India's own sense of inevitability - that what was never rightly India's to begin with will sooner or later be formally lost.
No country in the world would encourage insurgency in it's territory. Should we not be paranoid about it? What logic is that? We will take whatever means necessary to crush the insurgents and ensure safety of the public.
India has had much worse situation in the 80's, Kashmir almost become uncontrollable. In comparison, the current situation in Kashmir is much much better. Did you know there was heavy insurgency in Jammu, forget Kashmir. Now look at the situation. The militancy is left to few districts of Kashmir.
So, do you think India thinks it can't control the state? And it's slipping? No, we have more control over it than ever.

This is all very obvious though, and your government acknowledges the reality that India wants and needs to constantly attack Pakistan. I think you know all this really though. No need to pretend otherwise.
Attack Pakistan how? Almost all Indian PM's except MMS in the past decade have tried and have gone out of their way to make a deal despite strong pressure against it. Every time such a peace deal is close, military would topple the situation. First, your military needs to let the civilian government decide it's foreign policy. Indian civilian leadership or any civilian leadership thinks to avoid conflict, only military leadership thinks of conflict to stay relevant. In India, military is way under the civilian government. Is it the case with Pakistan?

You need to stop pretending it's your military who can't stop thinking about conflict.

I mean, if I were India, I would certainly attack my biggest threat sitting on my doorstep. It's even fair to say that the feeling is mutual. Both our nations attack one another with terminal ferocity. It has no chance of abating until either the Kashmir issue is resolved or one of our nations is finished. Even if the Kashmir issue is resolved in fact, there is a chance the cold war between our nations will still continue.

Might as well buckle up and enjoy the ride.
Pakistan is not a threat, it is an inconvenience for India, say like DPRK it's a weak, broken ideological state with Nuclear weapons. The only threats for India from Pakistan is Nuclear weapons, Terrorists and Terrorists with Nuclear weapons (if things go awry in Pakistan). That's the only reason world powers tolerate you, it is your nukes getting into the hands of terrorists.

For a cold war to happen you need to at least be compatible in terms of technology, military prowess, economic prowess and size. India dominates the region with geography, economy and population it's the reality you have to live with rather than trying to compete. And I'm enjoying this ride without worrying about some road bumps.
 
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Take a look at history, India is fine with the status quo. That is, LOC as Border such a deal was close in the early 2000 but things took a wrong turn. India was always the defending force when Pakistan forcefully tried to change the status quo with military. Even in 71, no matter how you justify it, it was Pakistan who drew the first blood.

Speaking of proxy, no. Your claim is unsubstantiated. India cannot possibly drown Pakistan in debts, neither the terrorism inside your country is India's fault. This is similar situation like we had in North East. The internal insurgency is far away from Pakistan and similarly far away in case of India too.(BLA, TTP etc...) There may have been attempts to help these insurgents but India is not funding BLA. Instead, they are supported probably by Afghan Taliban, and Iranian groups (not the state). TTP again have deep links with AT after all they are their brethren. Claiming India supporting them is just a reaction on India's allegation of Pak support for terrorism in India. Which is substantiated by evidence.


No country in the world would encourage insurgency in it's territory. Should we not be paranoid about it? What logic is that? We will take whatever means necessary to crush the insurgents and ensure safety of the public.
India has had much worse situation in the 80's, Kashmir almost become uncontrollable. In comparison, the current situation in Kashmir is much much better. Did you know there was heavy insurgency in Jammu, forget Kashmir. Now look at the situation. The militancy is left to few districts of Kashmir.
So, do you think India thinks it can't control the state? And it's slipping? No, we have more control over it than ever.


Attack Pakistan how? Almost all Indian PM's except MMS in the past decade have tried and have gone out of their way to make a deal despite strong pressure against it. Every time such a peace deal is close, military would topple the situation. First, your military needs to let the civilian government decide it's foreign policy. Indian civilian leadership or any civilian leadership thinks to avoid conflict, only military leadership thinks of conflict to stay relevant. In India, military is way under the civilian government. Is it the case with Pakistan?

You need to stop pretending it's your military who can't stop thinking about conflict.


Pakistan is not a threat, it is an inconvenience for India, say like DPRK it's a weak, broken ideological state with Nuclear weapons. The only threats for India from Pakistan is Nuclear weapons, Terrorists and Terrorists with Nuclear weapons (if things go awry in Pakistan). That's the only reason world powers tolerate you, it is your nukes getting into the hands of terrorists.

For a cold war to happen you need to at least be compatible in terms of technology, military prowess, economic prowess and size. India dominates the region with geography, economy and population it's the reality you have to live with rather than trying to compete. And I'm enjoying this ride without worrying about some road bumps.
The truth is, Pakistan still ahs not accepted the fact that it has forever lost Kashmir. Which is why it will never allow peace to prevail in the region, despite claiming the opposite. India is fine with recognizing the LOC as an International Border and holding talks with separatist, but has a zero tolerance policy with regard to Pakistan-sponsored terror organizations. If Pakistan wants peace, it will have to cease supporting the militants. Until then, the status quo will remain, which is good for India but bleeding Pakistan dry.
 
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This is a good article that makes some excellent points. I really like how he described India as a "swing state," because that is what India essentially is. India is one of the only major world powers that has not completely fallen into one camp. Although that has brought challenges of its own, it gives India leverage over all the other major powers in the Indo-Pacific (Russia, India, China) as all of their strategies to dominate Eurasia revolve around securing India's support in the Indo-Pacific in some way. And going by the "swing state" example, India can be compared to Florida. It is clear that the direction India takes with its foreign policy will determine the geopolitical future of Eurasia

For the moment India is effectively aligned with USA. Check the dollar amounts & type of goods India exports versus China & USA. Chinese are not giving India a better deal anytime
India's dealings with China are to prevent any downward drift into actual war like situation. India's weapon purchases from Russia is to preserve strategic autonomy from USA.
 
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