India helped in our liberation war for India’s interest

[notsuperstitious]

By Mohammad Zainal Abedin

In 1971 India though claimed its victory over Pakistan in Bangladesh, its forces could not capture even a district in West Pakistan, rather hundreds of thousands of Indian soldiers were captured by Pakistani troops and many Indian soldiers surrendered to Pakistan.

And thats the most credible statement in the whole article. Oh please i hope calling blatant lies not supported by facts GARBAGE is not an offense or trolling here.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Stick to the topic please.

 

[Dhaka_soul]

Hi, this is my first post in the forum.

Here,nobody shed a light about diversity of muktibahini men.Basically,from motivational point of view there were four kind of people there...

1.Rebel Bengali soldiers of Pak army,EPR and police
2.Political activists,mainly from Awami League,but also from Pro soviet CPB(Communist Party of BD) and Pro Chinese communists.
3.Common people and students motivated by genocide of Pak army
4.Opportunistic people(mainly joined in Aug and Sep of '71)

Among them,pro China Communists were most disillusioned about the war.

I guess,Mr. Zainal Abedin,whom Mr.Munshi and a lot of conservatives follow deeply belonged to pro China group of muktis(a large part of Pro China group became more conservative later).

It's also possible that he was a fake one(fake freedom fighter and may belong to right wing Jamat-e-Islam) untill proven otherwise.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

I guess,Mr. Zainal Abedin,whom Mr.Munshi and a lot of conservatives follow deeply belonged to pro China group of muktis(a large part of Pro China group became more conservative later).

It's also possible that he was a fake one(fake freedom fighter and may belong to right wing Jamat-e-Islam) untill proven otherwise.

I am a conservative and follow deeply Zainal Abedin???

That is a very big presumption on your part. In fact, the style of your post is disgraceful and I believe utterly disrespectful to the freedom fighters and the ethos of 1971. Why should Zainal Abedin prove that he is a freedom fighter. This has never been contested in Bangladesh and who are you to dispute it? What is your qualification and background to do so? What makes you think I follow him deeply just because I post an article by him? That displays your shallowness and your agenda in posting on this forum.

Clearly your India bias is shown by your implication that I belong to the pro-China faction. Can someone not criticize India just on the evidence? Why does that person have to be pro-China to criticize India? I strongly believe that I am being pro-Bangladesh by criticizing India since they continue to harm our national interests and security. One does not have to be pro-China to find Indian expansionism and hegemony distasteful. One is in fact being patriotic by criticizing India since they are doing us immense damage and this needs to be expressed and fought against.

 

[leonblack08]

If it werent for the Indian Army, BD would not have been liberated ( what liberation? seeing all u BD guys, u were better off with Pakistan!). The MB would have been crushed, and You must give credit to the Pak army because they nearly did so.

We always expressed our gratitude to Indian Army for their role in 1971.Just recently,General Jacob and some other retired Indian Army personnel were invited as guests for Independence day in 2008.What does this imply?Does these mean we don't thank India for its support?

One more thing, Finally- Would the MB be able to even kill a single Pak Army personnel if it werent for the Arms provided by India and the Funding??

Yes.
During 26th March night,Pakistani forces were facing fierce resistance from Bangladeshi police armed with Three-not-Three.
A bit of history research would be useful for you.

The MB was armed by India (dont u guys give us some credit atleast, or do you wanna feel all proud saying a bunch of Guerrillas defeated the Pakistani Army??? It wont be even possible in the Wettest of your dreams to defeat the Pakistani army stationed in East Pakistan by blowing up a few sailboats! Had not the Indians bombed the Airfields the PAF could have rained down bomb on your cities and MB hideouts and then finally none of the so called great MB (which according to u guys defeated the Pak Army/Navy/Airforce) would be alive lol!

You BD guys have to make it clear, Here and Now. Are you angry at BD being created? Do you want to join up with W Pakistan???? Are you ashamed at being from BD? Let me tell you, I feel some of you are!

I believe this question is not for me.You know the answer.

In the end I would like to tell you,with your sarcasm about our Freedom Fighters,you have disrespected them.This is unacceptable.And from your post I am getting the feeling you have little knowledge about our liberation war and our freedom fighters.And about the conflicts.

Moreover I am getting the feeling you have diverted the whole thing.We always acknowledged Indian Indirect support but we were discussing Indian offensive was not necessary.Better read the posts again.

Moreover Some of you Indians seems to be in such "Superior mode" that we often here words like,"India liberated BD",with these statements you people are seriously undermining our Freedom Fighters role,undermining Hundreds of thousands of Shaheeds,who gave their lives for the motherland.What do you say,Is this acceptable?
Just adding a word "HELPED" would give the clear meaning and also not undermine Mukti Bahinis role.That too is just too hard for some of you.

Some Indians go as far as saying that it was a 12 day war where India won convincingly.IDIOTS.

And at last would you not agree with the title?India saw interest and so it helped Bangladesh.It wasn't because they were in a mood for love,you know that.If you disagree with this,I would consider you as another ignorant person,which I don't think you are.

 

[Khajur]

We always expressed our gratitude to Indian Army for their role in 1971.Just recently,General Jacob and some other retired Indian Army personnel were invited as guests for Independence day in 2008.What does this imply?Does these mean we don't thank India for its support?






Yes.
During 26th March night,Pakistani forces were facing fierce resistance from Bangladeshi police armed with Three-not-Three.
A bit of history research would be useful for you.





I believe this question is not for me.You know the answer.

In the end I would like to tell you,with your sarcasm about our Freedom Fighters,you have disrespected them.This is unacceptable.And from your post I am getting the feeling you have little knowledge about our liberation war and our freedom fighters.And about the conflicts.

Moreover I am getting the feeling you have diverted the whole thing.We always acknowledged Indian Indirect support but we were discussing Indian offensive was not necessary.Better read the posts again.

Moreover Some of you Indians seems to be in such "Superior mode" that we often here words like,"India liberated BD",with these statements you people are seriously undermining our Freedom Fighters role,undermining Hundreds of thousands of Shaheeds,who gave their lives for the motherland.What do you say,Is this acceptable?
Just adding a word "HELPED" would give the clear meaning and also not undermine Mukti Bahinis role.That too is just too hard for some of you.

Some Indians go as far as saying that it was a 12 day war where India won convincingly.IDIOTS.

And at last would you not agree with the title?India saw interest and so it helped Bangladesh.It wasn't because they were in a mood for love,you know that.If you disagree with this,I would consider you as another ignorant person,which I don't think you are.

Let me ask u a very forward question,do u believe Banladesh could have liberated without indias direct military intervention??

if u answer is yes,i insist u consult someone who knows better.

And more thing,india didnt attack east pakistan in 71 out any love for bengalis ,but since it had with no other options left .

Let me tell u,before the war started india was already flooded with some 10 million refugees from east pakistan,milions of which still live india to this day.Each day some 30 to 40 thousand bengali ppl were crossing indian border.If india handnt intervened militarily,probaly the whole of Bengali population would have shifted to india because of large scale massares going round by pakistnai forces.Also without indias direct support,pakistani forces would have wiped put Mukti Bahini in matter of months.

I have all the respect for ur MB freedom fighters,but lets not make unrealistic
assumption about MB or ungrateful comments about liberating indian forces.

 

[leonblack08]

Let me ask u a very forward question,do u believe Banladesh could have liberated without indias direct military intervention??

if u answer is yes,i insist u consult someone who knows better.

And more thing,india didnt attack east pakistan in 71 out any love for bengalis ,but since it had with no other options left .

Let me tell u,before the war started india was already flooded with some 10 million refugees from east pakistan,milions of which still live india to this day.Each day some 30 to 40 thousand bengali ppl were crossing indian border.If india handnt intervened militarily,probaly the whole of Bengali population would have shifted to india because of large scale massares going round by pakistnai forces.Also without indias direct support,pakistani forces would have wiped put Mukti Bahini in matter of months.

I have all the respect for ur MB freedom fighters,but lets not make unrealistic
assumption about MB or ungrateful comments about liberating indian forces.

Show from my posts where I made ungrateful comments about Indian forces.If you can show me I will not post in this thread anymore.

Also without indias direct support,pakistani forces would have wiped put Mukti Bahini in matter of months.

Seriously,I am telling you.India's indirect support was enough.

You need to read the whole thread again as I do not have time and don't see the need to repeat myself.So go back and read it.

 

[leonblack08]

Indian offensive made the Liberation come few days may be months early.But I personally feel it should have gone for some more days rather than 9 months.Because then we would not have some people in Bangladesh who says that there was no war crime in Bangladesh,these are those people who didn't suffer from the occupying Pakistan Army.

We have our freedom now,an Honest Thanks to India for what they did in 1971 for us.This is becoming more and more useless thread as it does not matter now whether Indian offensive was required or not.Unless the looting thing comes to the board.Since it is a disputed claim,lets leave it there.Why poking at old garbage now?

Now the main fault in India's approach is that,it expects Bangladesh to follow its way just because they helped us to get Independence.This attitude of Indian Governments also found on many Indian people I happened to meet in Internet or in real life.
When you expect something after helping someone in need,then your intention definitely becomes questionable.

Bangladesh didn't fight to free itself from Pakistan so that it falls to Hindustan,but to become Bangladesh.So such attitude is not appreciated.

Ending this fruitless discussion from my part,unless someone quotes me.

 

[ahmeddsid]

We always expressed our gratitude to Indian Army for their role in 1971.Just recently,General Jacob and some other retired Indian Army personnel were invited as guests for Independence day in 2008.What does this imply?Does these mean we don't thank India for its support?






Yes.
During 26th March night,Pakistani forces were facing fierce resistance from Bangladeshi police armed with Three-not-Three.
A bit of history research would be useful for you.





I believe this question is not for me.You know the answer.

In the end I would like to tell you,with your sarcasm about our Freedom Fighters,you have disrespected them.This is unacceptable.And from your post I am getting the feeling you have little knowledge about our liberation war and our freedom fighters.And about the conflicts.

Moreover I am getting the feeling you have diverted the whole thing.We always acknowledged Indian Indirect support but we were discussing Indian offensive was not necessary.Better read the posts again.

Moreover Some of you Indians seems to be in such "Superior mode" that we often here words like,"India liberated BD",with these statements you people are seriously undermining our Freedom Fighters role,undermining Hundreds of thousands of Shaheeds,who gave their lives for the motherland.What do you say,Is this acceptable?
Just adding a word "HELPED" would give the clear meaning and also not undermine Mukti Bahinis role.That too is just too hard for some of you.

Some Indians go as far as saying that it was a 12 day war where India won convincingly.IDIOTS.

And at last would you not agree with the title?India saw interest and so it helped Bangladesh.It wasn't because they were in a mood for love,you know that.If you disagree with this,I would consider you as another ignorant person,which I don't think you are.

Leo you know me, I would never Disrespect BD or MB. But lets be realistic, Yes BD Policie with 303 might have given resistance to the Pak army but do you think they would have lasted long without Indian arms and Money???

I hate certain BD members attitude towards India. I would never support my Government if it tries to impose its will on you guys. BD is an Independent Nation- Thanks to India. Thats it. Its not Superior or Inferior.

Yes, India didnt help out of Love for BD but for hate Against Pakistan and the Refugees flowing In! It had to act, otherwise India would have loved to Fish without getting its Hand Dirty.

And FInally you are right- When you help someone, you dont expect anything in Return. Thats where some of our Leaders have failed. But then There is also another Matter, the Person who was Helped should Show Gratitude- otherwise he/she will be just an Ungrateful person. God Speed.

 

[Bull]

Indian offensive made the Liberation come few days may be months early.But I personally feel it should have gone for some more days rather than 9 months.Because then we would not have some people in Bangladesh who says that there was no war crime in Bangladesh,these are those people who didn't suffer from the occupying Pakistan Army.

We have our freedom now,an Honest Thanks to India for what they did in 1971 for us.This is becoming more and more useless thread as it does not matter now whether Indian offensive was required or not.Unless the looting thing comes to the board.Since it is a disputed claim,lets leave it there.Why poking at old garbage now?

Now the main fault in India's approach is that,it expects Bangladesh to follow its way just because they helped us to get Independence.This attitude of Indian Governments also found on many Indian people I happened to meet in Internet or in real life.
When you expect something after helping someone in need,then your intention definitely becomes questionable.

Bangladesh didn't fight to free itself from Pakistan so that it falls to Hindustan,but to become Bangladesh.So such attitude is not appreciated.

Ending this fruitless discussion from my part,unless someone quotes me.

As stated earlier, i have no issues with your views or judgment. Good Job.

 

[Vinod2070]

I am a conservative and follow deeply Zainal Abedin???

That is a very big presumption on your part. In fact, the style of your post is disgraceful and I believe utterly disrespectful to the freedom fighters and the ethos of 1971. Why should Zainal Abedin prove that he is a freedom fighter. This has never been contested in Bangladesh and who are you to dispute it? What is your qualification and background to do so? What makes you think I follow him deeply just because I post an article by him? That displays your shallowness and your agenda in posting on this forum.

Clearly your India bias is shown by your implication that I belong to the pro-China faction. Can someone not criticize India just on the evidence? Why does that person have to be pro-China to criticize India? I strongly believe that I am being pro-Bangladesh by criticizing India since they continue to harm our national interests and security. One does not have to be pro-China to find Indian expansionism and hegemony distasteful. One is in fact being patriotic by criticizing India since they are doing us immense damage and this needs to be expressed and fought against.

How many here think, it behoves Munshi to talk of respect and grace!

Munshi, you have exactly the same attitude to the generous help by India in the 1971 events and the creation of your country. That help is well documented and no one can deny it.

On the other hand, no one knows of this Zainal guy and he has every right to question his credentials and motives. Especially given the fantastic assertions made in the article!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Let me tell u,before the war started india was already flooded with some 10 million refugees from east pakistan,milions of which still live india to this day.Each day some 30 to 40 thousand bengali ppl were crossing indian border.

Pardon me for interjecting with something slightly off topic, but I cleared this up earlier as well - India was involved in destabilizing EP from as early as 1968, supporting the proxy groups (freedom fighters for Bangladeshis of course), and Indian interference was part of the dynamic that led to the situation we saw in 1971.

So it is extremely disingenuous to argue that 'India had no choice', as if she was innocent and only played her hand at the last moment due to the refugee crisis. India played a cold and calculating role in EP, culminating with the invasion. This has been acknowledged by Indian writers, and through Sam Manekshaw's words himself, and has been posted on another thread in the history section.

This whole 'innocent, altruistic India that had no choice' is nothing but a fairy tale that is taught to Indians to cover up her extremely hostile and anti-Pakistan actions that were part of the problem in EP.

Clarification over, back to topic.

 

[third eye]

We have a situation here..

1. Pak feels betrayed by its own citizens (of EP), Generals & regrets having lost its eastern wing considering besides all other reasons -the enormous leverage it could have given to Pak in the 21st century, not to mention the loss of face & humiliation of 93 000 POWS / defeat.

2 India feels sorry that what it did is not appreciated by BD. This sometimes leads to statements which rubs BD nationals the wrong way. Somewhere the Bhagwad Gita thing of doing your " Karam ( duty)" & not expecting to be paid for it gets lost in rhetoric.

3. BD, on its part has a new generation who would like to believe that 'they did it themselves" & that Pak Easten Command was on the verge of collapse anyway. Indian help was really not needed.

Well, the facts are there for history & the world to see. Punching the keyboard now is not going to change anything.

The western edge of the sub continent is on the verge of falling into anarchy.. none of us shall remain unaffected.. & we cannot stop squabbling of the past, more so when it has NO RELEVANCE to the future.

Somewhere our asian values of " izzat", not forgeting, long memories etc comes in the way.

Why can't we simply move on ?

 

[Vinod2070]

Why can't we simply move on ?

Fair point.

The correct perspective of history is important to be maintained. Else you are liable to repeat the same mistakes over and over.

The Bangladeshi freedom fighters did play a big part and made it easy for the IA. But they could not have done it by themselves. That is a pure delusion. The PA was too good for them.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

We have a situation here..

1. Pak feels betrayed by its own citizens (of EP), Generals & regrets having lost its eastern wing considering besides all other reasons -the enormous leverage it could have given to Pak in the 21st century, not to mention the loss of face & humiliation of 93 000 POWS / defeat.

For my part, I do not feel any sense of betrayal by the then East Pakistanis. While India played a role, so did the politicians on both sides, and they made a mess of it.

I feel no sense of loss that Bangladesh exists, perhaps becasue I was born after the events that led to its creation, and for me Pakistan has been the Pakistan of the present.

The whole 'leverage' thing I have no clue where you came up with.

There is of course animosity over India's deliberate and calculated role in breaking up Pakistan, because it just serves to hammer in the view that India has not really accepted the existence of Pakistan, and has continuously sought to undermine it and damage it - whether it is backtracking on international agreements on Kashmir, supporting the Pashtunistan movement, teh Baluch movement and of course the East Pakistan separatist movement.

From Pakistan's inception its been a series of attempts to undermine Pakistan's existence, and its no wonder, given the documented statements of the Indian leadership at independence and through Indira Gandhi, that suggested that Pakistan woudl never succeed and eventually 'return to the fold'.

For Pakistanis like me it isn't the existence of Bangladesh that rankles, its the cumulative effect of sixty years of Indian aggression and hostility towards Pakistan, and the continued refusal of some segments in India to give up day dreaming about "Akhand Bharat" - heck, even in Zardari's video interview with the journalists and editors, someone had to ask him why 'India and Pakistan couldn't be one'.