India has turned Muslims into a 'persecuted minority': Noam Chomsky

[jamahir]

There was no Burqa in the Oghuz Turkish tradition. You can also see this in the travel books of that period. It emerged centuries later as the integration with the other Muslim peoples increased and they took a place in the Ulema. With the modern republic, it has been reduced to a level that is almost none again.

Much thanks for the info. In the same way the burqa wasn't part of Muslim societies elsewhere too. I will write about the burqa in another thread and tag you there and now will tag @MultaniGuy and @Bleek to look at the information in your post above.

I am very surprised by the dress-code change even in India. Pakistanis have gradually embraced more Arabic culture over especially the last couple of decades but I had not expected that of Indian Muslims. But in Pakistan the process had started under Zia ul Haq. The long held 'Khuda Hafiz' [God be with you] from the Persian influence becoming the more Arabic 'Allah Hafiz'. The prevalent AND modest Shalwar Qameez worn by women in Pakistan is not as much common; the changes seem like more Western and tighter fitting trousers or more Arabian style clothes. Regardless, it was Zia ul Haq who started the Arabian influence and it was Musharraf who started to try to go back to the Sufi oriented Islam. But India is a surprise to me. I had been to India in 1980 and 1984 and in both trips had stayed there for quite some time. I don't think I EVER saw a single burqah/niqab wearing Muslim woman!

PS. Almost all women in my very extended circle of family and friends in Karachi still wear Shalwar Qameez. I believe it is modest and reflects Subcontinent's moderate Sufi-oriented Islamic culture.

You present a good picture of the recent situation of South Asian Muslims, whether in the Zia era or now. Here in India too the Khuda Hafiz has turned into Allah Hafiz. And I understand your experience in India. And I agree about the Shalwar Qameez.

What is your point here?

You don't agree with something so it is oppression?

I also don't care if you think it is "misinforming", neither does it matter if it's from hadith because it's common for Muslims to believe in them. As I said before, there are different sects and beliefs within Islam with individual interpretations of scripture which they derive from. A Turkish drama or your personal experience means nothing about Islam itself.

Your argument here just seems more of a sectarian issue where you disagree with other beliefs.

(Which I don't mind, I'm not religious either, but you should understand people have their own beliefs and respect that.)

I am a Communist, someone who considers all of humanity to be a single unit. I am not even the last one to be sectarian.

they are coming for hijab its not about burqa, I say start wearing burqa
when they come hard, you come harder

My people never wore, hijab or anything in Pak but after a couple of years in states, started wearing a scarf
When you are under attack as a people group, you don't hide, become cowards and let it take happen
But protect yourself by every means necessary- showing and being proud of your identity is one of them

Who decided in the recent two decades that the burqa is part of Indian Muslim identity ?

Hindus even though have perversion as part of their faith with their kamasutra and sexual parts as idols. But this has been documented in history that victors humilliate the defeated by targeting their women. Tripple talaq now this and more to come, responded with compliance will slowly erode their Muslimness where they and Hindus won't be distinguishable.

Cocomo bhai, when the Modi government made changes to the "Triple talaq" issue it didn't even realize that it was actually being Islamic, LOL. In Islam a talaq ( divorce ) happens over three months AFAIK so it is triple in this sense. But the issue in India was Instant Triple Talaq which happened over three seconds via oral word, SMS, WhatsApp etc. Please read this thread of mine from 2015 whose OP is by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because it better secured her socio-economic rights in case of divorce. The article describes the various rights to the female in marriage including the right to consent to wed. Western marriage law is inspired by Islamic marriage law.

Please don't. Really not interested in seeing you demean Muskan Khan's actions which I am quite sure you will do.

Xeuss, in your zeal to agitate against the Hindu right-wing you are supporting the irrational right-wingers among the Muslims including the misinformed and misguided Muskan whose father seems to be in the PFI. Sad about you.

Bro, you are one of the few Indian Muslims who actually want Muslims to progress rather than regress. I always believe that until Muslims don't mix with the mainstream society, they'll always lag behind.

Thanks. It wasn't always like this. So many Indian Muslims earlier were progressive, some of them in the Communist movement. For example, the famous landmark in Srinagar, Kashmir, called Lal Chowk was named so before Partition by local Muslim and Sikh Communists including BPL Bedi, the father of the actor Kabir Bedi.

But now, especially since the mid-2000s, most Indian Muslims have regressed. Gone away from true Islam really.

How do you know that Indian member is a Muslim, or pretending to be one.

He questioned my Qur'an and Sunnah comment.

So anyone who questions you is not a Muslim ? Who are you ? Gaddafi ? Perhaps a scientist during the Islamic Golden Age ?

Years ago, one batchmate of mine in a computer institute was named Jamal Abdul Nasser, named after the great leader from Egypt who was inspiration for so many progressive Muslims in the world. That was then. Now...

And I just noticed that your profile picture is of Musharraf yet you talk like a Lal Masjid mullah, LOL.

By the way what is an Indian Muslim doing on a Pakistani forum anyways?

What's wrong if an Indian Muslim is on PDF ?

 

[Wergeland]

Why so much importance to Noam Chomsky? One does not need Noam Chomsky to come to the conclusion that Indian Muslims are treated like 2nd class citizens in India.

its not that he is important. Its that Chomsky is influiential among the academic class and social democrats in the west.

 

[SIPRA]

Muslims are second-class, discriminated-against, citizens of India, since 1947. Now, only, the level and intensity of persecution has increased.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Much thanks for the info. In the same way the burqa wasn't part of Muslim societies elsewhere too. I will write about the burqa in another thread and tag you there and now will tag @MultaniGuy and @Bleek to look at the information in your post above.



You present a good picture of the recent situation of South Asian Muslims, whether in the Zia era or now. Here in India too the Khuda Hafiz has turned into Allah Hafiz. And I understand your experience in India. And I agree about the Shalwar Qameez.



I am a Communist, someone who considers all of humanity to be a single unit. I am not even the last one to be sectarian.



Who decided in the recent two decades that the burqa is part of Indian Muslim identity ?



Cocomo bhai, when the Modi government made changes to the "Triple talaq" issue it didn't even realize that it was actually being Islamic, LOL. In Islam a talaq ( divorce ) happens over three months AFAIK so it is triple in this sense. But the issue in India was Instant Triple Talaq which happened over three seconds via oral word, SMS, WhatsApp etc. Please read this thread of mine from 2015 whose OP is by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because it better secured her socio-economic rights in case of divorce. The article describes the various rights to the female in marriage including the right to consent to wed. Western marriage law is inspired by Islamic marriage law.



Xeuss, in your zeal to agitate against the Hindu right-wing you are supporting the irrational right-wingers among the Muslims including the misinformed and misguided Muskan whose father seems to be in the PFI. Sad about you.



Thanks. It wasn't always like this. So many Indian Muslims earlier were progressive, some of them in the Communist movement. For example, the famous landmark in Srinagar, Kashmir, called Lal Chowk was named so before Partition by local Muslim and Sikh Communists including BPL Bedi, the father of the actor Kabir Bedi.

But now, especially since the mid-2000s, most Indian Muslims have regressed. Gone away from true Islam really.



So anyone who questions you is not a Muslim ? Who are you ? Gaddafi ? Perhaps a scientist during the Islamic Golden Age ?

Years ago, one batchmate of mine in a computer institute was named Jamal Abdul Nasser, named after the great leader from Egypt who was inspiration for so many progressive Muslims in the world. That was then. Now...

And I just noticed that your profile picture is of Musharraf yet you talk like a Lal Masjid mullah, LOL.



What's wrong if an Indian Muslim is on PDF ?

Musharraf has also done a lot of good as well for Pakistan.

What do you know you moron.

It does not mean I agree with everything Musharraf did or disagree with everything he did.

 

[jamahir]

Musharraf has also done a lot of good as well for Pakistan.

What do you know you moron.

It does not mean I agree with everything Musharraf did or disagree with everything he did.

1. What is the good and not good that Musharraf has done ?

2. You use "moron" a lot. Is that among the few words in your vocabulary ? You don't seem too intelligent.

3. Did you see my tagging of you for dBSPL's post about the burqa thing in Turkish lands ?

 

[SIPRA]

2. You use "moron" a lot. Is that among the few words in your vocabulary ? You don't seem too intelligent.

So, you want him to use different word every time?

 

[jamahir]

So, you want him to use different word every time?

Well, it will at least enlarge his vocabulary.

 

[Black Tornado]

Muslims are second-class, discriminated-against, citizens of India, since 1947. Now, only, the level and intensity of persecution has increased.

Indeed

 

[SIPRA]

Well, it will at least enlarge his vocabulary.

Welcome back. Stay with us.

Indeed

Of course. Without any iota of doubt. I stand with my post, to which you are responding.

 

[jamahir]

Welcome back. Stay with us.

Thanks for the welcome bhai. But about staying, I have already received a warning from senior mod The Eagle for my comments about the burqa. He was the one who banned me twice since December.

 

[SIPRA]

Thanks for the welcome bhai. But about staying, I have already received a warning from senior mod The Eagle for my comments about the burqa. He was the one who banned me twice since December.

Array Bhai: Tau "burqay" ki jaan chhorh dau. There are many other issues, which fellow human beings are facing. Concentrate on them. As for banning, I have also been banned twice, in the same period. Keya faraq parhta hae.

"Woh hameen thay, jinn kay libaas per sar e roo sihaahi mali gayi
Yahi daagh thay, jo saja kay hum sar e bazm e yaar chalay gaye"
(Faiz)

 

[jamahir]

Array Bhai: Tau "burqay" ki jaan chhorh dau. There are many other issues, which fellow human beings are facing. Concentrate on them. As for banning, I have also been banned twice, in the same period. Keya faraq parhta hae.

"Woh hameen thay, jinn kay libaas per sar e roo sihaahi mali gayi
Yahi daagh thay, jo saja kay hum sar e bazm e yaar chalay gaye"
(Faiz)

Didn't understand the second line in the poem but I wonder what would the Lenin-prize-taking Faiz have made of Indian Burqa Girl Muskan and her passionate defense of the said garment.

And yes, there are so many issues in human society which I know as a Communist, burqa being one of them.