India has requested for six MQ-9 drones from the US at the cost of $600 million.

[LeGenD]

Payload: 3,750 pounds (1,701 kilograms)
Speed: cruise speed around 230 mph (200 knots)
Range: 1,150 miles (1,000 nautical miles)
Ceiling: Up to 50,000 feet (15,240 meters)
Armament: combination of AGM-114 Hellfire missiles, GBU-12 Paveway II and GBU-38 Joint Direct Attack Munitions
Crew (remote): two (pilot and sensor operator)
Unit cost: $64.2 million

The most important factors. The Q is why have such expensive drones, which could easily be shot down by your enemies. 230 mph speed not exactly lightening speed. They can easily be shot down by both China and Pakistan. Neither their ceiling is particularly high enough to go undetected by the enemies.

They were used against Pakistan by USA because Pakistanis could not take the risk of shot down USA drone, for its other implications.

No such compulsions when Indians drones cross the LOC or border with Pakistan.
They would be shot down very quickly. Mark my words, a very bad decision by India. It wouldn't be able to use it against China or Pakistan, without risking the retaliation, including shooting down of the drones.

If you consider any UAV in isolation, it can be shot down. UAVs work best in SUPPORTING roles and a military should learn to develop tactics with them.

Traditional approach is to rely upon manned aircraft for ISR/CAP/SEAD/DEAD missions but UAVs can be made to complement manned aircraft in these missions - ground troops as well. UAVs are easier to operate from numerous spaces offering desired levels of flexibility and reach to ground troops for their missions in the battlefield. There will be situations in which troops could see target(s) but not in the position to engage them on time - these target(s) could slip away or receive reinforcements with passing time. UAVs can be called upon to do thy bidding...

Now compared to majority of UAVs in use around the world, MQ-9 Reaper is a much more capable design and strike platform (among the very best). MQ-9 is also capable of defeating other UAVs in flight (aerial engagements) which is a PLUS.

 

[Figaro]

Because Wing Loong is a disposable weapon, just like any UAV should be. For China, lose 100 Wing Loong is less painful than for India to lose their overpriced Reapers. If China's military deployment cost at India border is less than India's deployment cost, then it is more painful for India to maintain their troops at their border. Thus it will burden India's economy more than China.

With current economy condition in our world, that will be very painful for India. while it is a walk in the park for China.

Actually this is not the case ... Wing Loong is not some sort of swarm UAV as you are suggesting here. Just because it is cheaper to produce (~1/2 price of MQ-9) does not mean the Chinese will treat them as highly disposable weapon. A lost Wing Loong will still be a considerable blow for the PLA, although it will be nothing compared to the Indians losing a MQ-9 due to its price and India's inability to domestically manufacture drones.

 

[crankthatskunk]

If you consider any UAV in isolation, it can be shot down. UAVs work best in SUPPORTING roles and a military should learn to develop tactics with them.

Traditional approach is to rely upon manned aircraft for ISR/CAP/SEAD/DEAD missions but UAVs can be made to complement manned aircraft in these missions - ground troops as well. UAVs are easier to operate from numerous spaces offering desired levels of flexibility and reach to ground troops for their missions in the battlefield. There will be situations in which troops could see target(s) but not in the position to engage them on time - these target(s) could slip away or receive reinforcements with passing time. UAVs can be called upon to do thy bidding...

Now compared to majority of UAVs in use around the world, MQ-9 Reaper is a much more capable design and strike platform (among the very best). MQ-9 is also capable of defeating other UAVs in flight (aerial engagements) which is a PLUS.

My friend, what you have described on the capabilities of MQ-9 Reaper is true in case of USA. No doubt, Reaper can complement ground forces. But to do so you need hosts of other capabilities and clout, which India simple does not possess.

That's why I gave the example why USA was allowed by Pakistan to use drone for years in Tribal areas, despite government of Pakistan at the time making fake noises to calm down public anger.
The fact of the matter is that Pakistan could have easily shot down these Drones, but could not do so for other ramifications due to clout hold by the USA.

No such compulsion exists in case of India. Mark my word , if India gets these Drones, they would be in heap of troubles the day India uses them against China or even Pakistan.

 

[LeGenD]

My friend, what you have described on the capabilities of MQ-9 Reaper is true in case of USA. No doubt, Reaper can complement ground forces. But to do so you need hosts of other capabilities and clout, which India simple does not possess.

That's why I gave the example why USA was allowed by Pakistan to use drone for years in Tribal areas, despite government of Pakistan at the time making fake noises to calm down public anger.
The fact of the matter is that Pakistan could have easily shot down these Drones, but could not do so for other ramifications due to clout hold by the USA.

No such compulsion exists in case of India. Mark my word , if India gets these Drones, they would be in heap of troubles the day India uses them against China or even Pakistan.

Fair points.

Still - Indians are inducting different types of UAVs and looking forward to develop tactics with them. I am aware of the fact that Pakistan Army is exploring these options but if the enemy is able to induct more capable UAVs in large numbers in the coming years then WE have a problem. Indians are also exploring the theme of "swarm tactics."

WE have grown accustomed to dealing with an India that was over-reliant upon Russian arms and WE could obtain weapon systems from multiple countries including Western options. WE could develop countermeasures for them by sourcing stuff from USA and China respectively. China having close relations with Russia - could provide valuable feedback to us (still does). Americans could offer technological superiority anyways.

But times are changing - now Indians are in the position to procure high quality equipment from multiple countries, develop new tactics with them, and mitigate their security shortcomings in ways unlike possible before. WE need to think long-term - what would be Indian military capabilities and tactics like 5 years from now.

Indian Navy is getting MQ-9 Reaper UAVs by the way - variants optimized for maritime missions. Indian Army is looking at other options.

WE are ushering into a new era of arms race with uncertain future.

 

[Yasser76]

Fair points.

Still - Indians are inducting different types of UAVs and looking forward to develop tactics with them. I am aware of the fact that Pakistan Army is exploring these options but if the enemy is able to induct more capable UAVs in large numbers in the coming years then WE have a problem. Indians are also exploring the theme of "swarm tactics."

WE have grown accustomed to dealing with an India that was over-reliant upon Russian arms and WE could obtain weapon systems from multiple countries including Western options. WE could develop countermeasures for them by sourcing stuff from USA and China respectively. China having close relations with Russia - could provide valuable feedback to us (still does). Americans could offer technological superiority anyways.

But times are changing - now Indians are in the position to procure high quality equipment from multiple countries, develop new tactics with them, and mitigate their security shortcomings in ways unlike possible before. WE need to think long-term - what would be Indian military capabilities and tactics like 5 years from now.

Indian Navy is getting MQ-9 Reaper UAVs by the way - variants optimized for maritime missions. Indian Army is looking at other options.

WE are ushering into a new era of arms race with uncertain future.

Agree and disagree to an extent. Yes, we should never underestimate the enemy, and Indians are catching up, but do consider for almost the entire 1990s they had AEW, SU-30s and BVR and could not initiate or intimidate Pakistan. Pakistan caught up quickly and in many areas now surpasses India. India is of course modernising but the pace of this modernisation (considering the size of Indian defence budget) has been painfully slow. In key areas (AEW, refuellers, EW support, networking) they are still far behind with no immediate solutions (countless "RFPs" that never come to fruition or many DRDO models that literally never make it off the ground). Now I am not dismissing them, they have made strides in areas such as SAMs and modern fighters, but Pakistan Air Force, about 10 years ago, announced we were effectively skipping 4th Gen aircraft in favour of 5th Gen. Many on this forum seem to of forgotten this and some people cry about us needing F-16V or J-10C. Truth of the matter is PAF knew then we had some breathing space. India will only induct 36 Rafales (on current plans) and will take another 2 years to operationalise the whole fleet.

PAF intend to have an AZM prototype flying within 5 years. The technology being looked at (this is not secret and open source) is ultra long range missiles, IA controlled EW, new generation AESA and even lasers. If this comes off (and I am sure it will need much Chinese help), you can forget about Indian air force over Pakistan air space for the next 30 years.

 

[Brainsucker]

Actually this is not the case ... Wing Loong is not some sort of swarm UAV as you are suggesting here. Just because it is cheaper to produce (~1/2 price of MQ-9) does not mean the Chinese will treat them as highly disposable weapon. A lost Wing Loong will still be a considerable blow for the PLA, although it will be nothing compared to the Indians losing a MQ-9 due to its price and India's inability to domestically manufacture drones.

Well, somebody said that Wing Loong price is only 2 million USD, compared to MQ-9 that 19 Million USD.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

Counter Insurgency and Defensive operations against a foreign aggression were the conditions

Like I already said that literally covers every aspect of PAF's requirements. Plus lets not forget that the US doesnt care either way, remember when India went crying to America about Pakistan using F-16's during Operation Swift Retort, and were soundly ignored.

 

[CIA Mole]

My hope is for india to keep investing in military and end up broke.

It takes a functioning, healthy economy, not just weapons to win a war.


For every $1.3 billion india spends on military, the average indian goes without food for another day.