India has raised the stakes

[DESERT FIGHTER]

headly was investigated by Indian authorities by then and our home sec was stating the facts that were revealed by him during the investigation....so if u are un aware abt it stop making a statement

same applys for u
Ur priorities arent ours..... terror is our first priority

as for the bolded part go read my post once again its clearly written WHOKONWS that means its an assumption i never said he did...go and comprehend it once again

the links u provided r worthless so keep them to urself

LOL in the WHOLE WORLD a home sc. never works like a government spokesman n gives B.S facts just before an important SUMMIT..Its done just to derail the talks nothing else.

No in Pakistan our home sec, does come on media vomit false facts to derail talks like india.

Thts ur internal problem in a summit u work with the otherside, not just B,S ur own problems acting def n dum and listenin to the otherside...Thts called being an .,.


U never provided any links nothin, just ur RANT,B.S..

Good for u act deff n dumb nobdy stops u.

 

[Trident]

LOL in the WHOLE WORLD a home sc. never works like a government spokesman n gives B.S facts just before an important SUMMIT..Its done just to derail the talks nothing else.

No in Pakistan our home sec, does come on media vomit false facts to derail talks like india.

Thts ur internal problem in a summit u work with the otherside, not just B,S ur own problems acting def n dum and listenin to the otherside...Thts called being an .,.


U never provided any links nothin, just ur RANT,B.S..

Good for u act deff n dumb nobdy stops u.

i was askin u for the same provide links for ur claims u didnt provide any credilble ones other than ur RANT

and by the way he never issued any statement he was just qouting the facts when questioned in an interview it was not an official statement... as for the derailing the talks it was not him it was mr qoreshi who did it by while accusing that our FM was on the phone and later bactracking frm it...

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Trident i dont need to reply to ur rant which consists of pure b.s sp good bye.

 

[r3alist]

Pakistan,in my opinion,should have stayed away from US and Soviet conflict in Afghanistan,or atleast,should have engaged in a lower level.But Pakistani leader let them to be used by US and the result is the Kalashnikov culture in Pakistan.India,again stayed out of the mess,and has excellent relations with the US as well as Russia

you seem to be implying that pakistan had a choice

it had no choice during the cold war and it had no choice post 9/11, thats because pak has never had a leadership with enough of a spine to say NO to the west, if you say no you can see the fate or iran yourself in how they have become a pariah state

india is another story, it cannot be bullied into conflicts

 

[DGMO]

Pakistan,in my opinion,should have stayed away from US and Soviet conflict in Afghanistan,or atleast,should have engaged in a lower level.But Pakistani leader let them to be used by US and the result is the Kalashnikov culture in Pakistan.India,again stayed out of the mess,and has excellent relations with the US as well as Russia

Again,Pakistan,for its own benefit,should not have actively taken part in WoT,for the stakes were too high.But this time,lets say it was not for Pakistan to decide.its understandable that the Taliban feel backstabbed,as they were once created by the agencies of Pakistan.

As touched on above, we had no choice due to our strategic disposition to become embroiled in the Soviet occupation. If the Red Army is next door, you don't want them banging on your door next. We were compelled to protect our territory.

What we weren't so good at (and we haven't been post 9/11), is how to extract maximum gain for our services. We've been exploited, but haven't done well economically out of it as we should've.

And there was no way we were not going to take part in the WoT. The pressure we were under was unlike any we'd seen before. Factor in India saying "we'll help you Sir", and we weren't in a position to sit on the sidelines. An ugly necessity.

 

[deckingraj]

Of course Cameron's comments were for his Indian audience. That is why he made them during a trade visit to India and not at 10 Downing Street.

Wrong....Had that been the case he would not have refused to entertain your official protest

The Hindu : News / International : Cameron not to apologise for Pak terror remarks

Let's not trivalize comments just by saying they are meant for local audience....As said if they were why is Pakistan so perturbed by it???

I don't think most of them, except the economy, have anything to do with the West's courtship of India.

Then why is west not showing similar courtship to China???? Ofcourse economy is a key here however as said maintaining relationships are more then money....

India was solidly in the Soviet camp; nobody bought the NAM charade.

Is that nobody you??? We never joined Warsaw so how come we were in Soviet Camp???

This helped India tremendously by bringing the hugely powerful Zionist lobbies in the West to its side, especially against Pakistan. India diplomatic successes are arguably due more to the Zionist lobbies than Indian diplomats themselves.

Wow...Developereo i have lot of respect for you but this one comment is not correct....Anyways whether zionist lobby did it for us or we did, we get the job done...Now if you are undermining Indian diplomatic clout then be my guest...However the point i was drawing was India also had national and international pressure, yet we did the right thing...i.e build relations with Israel...Today we are frineds to both Arab World and Israel...win win...

This one is true.

Nice you agree over one...

This is the classic case of 'saying nice doggie until you find a stone'. India and China are on a collision course and both countries know it. India is not spending all this money on weapons just for show.

You are plane wrong...Had that been the case i do not see any reason out trade reachd $60 billion and increasing as we are talking....Both countries very well know how detrimental conflict would be for them...As far as weapons are concerned then every country prepare for the worst...India is not doing anything out of moon...

Western businesses and government don't give a damn about democracy. Even the Western media makes noises about it only as a cover for other agendas.

It is common sense that conditions for good relations improve if political system is similar in two countries...Saying they don't care about democracy is wrong...Saying that they don't mind having better relations with non-democratic countries for personal benefit would be right....

 

[karan.1970]

you seem to be implying that pakistan had a choice

it had no choice during the cold war and it had no choice post 9/11, thats because pak has never had a leadership with enough of a spine to say NO to the west, if you say no you can see the fate or iran yourself in how they have become a pariah state

india is another story, it cannot be bullied into conflicts

And I think thats a lot to do with the govt structure at the time. If you see, both times (Soviets, WOT), it was a military dictator that took Pakistan into the harm's way.. It would have been very difficult for a US to threaten a democratic govt(with its opposition leadership and what not) with bombing into stone age.

And still we see this starry eyed reverence in most Pakistanis when Army/ISI is talked about. Folks need to realize that its the country that owns the military and not the other way around.

 

[Developereo]

NRI's

If you think the West's relations with India are due to NRIs, you've got the wrong end of the stick. Obama doesn't favor India because he is influenced by the NRIs, he appoints NRIs to please India. Similarly with other western governments and media. India has a big consumer base, so they hire Indians to communicate with them. It is not a coincidence that Fareed Zakaria on CNN airs at prime time in India, not the US. Similarly with BBC presenters of Indian descent.

NRI lobbying is insignificant and would produce zero results if the dominant Zionist lobbies actively worked against them -- as they do against Pakistan. Indian diplomatic success in the West is largely due to their Zionist mentors and Western strategic interests rather than Indians themselves. The only place where this dynamic doesn't hold is in the Middle East and there we clearly see a more level playing field.

I am not discounting the efforts and qualifications of NRIs, which are many, but am pointing out the other salient facts which you didn't mention. NRIs are no more or less integrated or productive than other immigrant groups. The numbers are slanted in favor of NRIs mostly because of a huge recent influx of IT professionals. Before that, most NRIs were of the Patel-motel variety, insulated and middle class.

Economic

Agreed.

Military - A huge industry and one where JV's can happen

Aside from the economic benefit, covered above, this one is nonsense. There is almost nothing the West needs to learn from India in terms of technology, least of all military technology. Even Russia is forming joint ventures with India purely for the money (and to annoy the West), not to learn anything.

Wrong....Had that been the case he would not have refused to entertain your official protest

The Hindu : News / International : Cameron not to apologise for Pak terror remarks

Let's not trivalize comments just by saying they are meant for local audience....As said if they were why is Pakistan so perturbed by it???

Of course the comments were for Indians. He needs those trade contracts implemented, whether he is still in India or back home. Pakistan is rightly concerned because he used Pakistan as a scapegoat to butter-up India for his trade contracts.

Then why is west not showing similar courtship to China????

Because the West believes that the only real upcoming Asian superpower and potential challenger to Western hegemony is China. As such it needs to be kept preoccupied with matters closer to home, so it won't make trouble on the global front. Japan is looking less and less reliable as a stalwart military ally.

Is that nobody you??? We never joined Warsaw so how come we were in Soviet Camp???

Why bother? you were getting all the military benefits anyway while wearing the NAM colors.

You are plane wrong...Had that been the case i do not see any reason out trade reachd $60 billion and increasing as we are talking....Both countries very well know how detrimental conflict would be for them...As far as weapons are concerned then every country prepare for the worst...India is not doing anything out of moon...

60 billion is peanuts for China. And China knows exactly whose address is written on those weapons India is buying/building.

It is common sense that conditions for good relations improve if political system is similar in two countries...Saying they don't care about democracy is wrong...Saying that they don't mind having better relations with non-democratic countries for personal benefit would be right....

Business is not in the business of caring, only profits, wherever they come from. And governments only pay lip service to democratic alliances; the US has perfectly normal relations with China and Saudi Arabia, yet ostracizes the democractically elected government of Hamas.

 

[DGMO]

If you think the West's relations with India are due to NRIs, you've got the wrong end of the stick. Obama doesn't favor India because he is influenced by the NRIs, he appoints NRIs to please India. Similarly with other western governments and media. India has a big consumer base, so they hire Indians to communicate with them. It is not a coincidence that Fareed Zakaria on CNN airs at prime time in India, not the US. Similarly with BBC presenters of Indian descent.

NRI lobbying is insignificant and would produce zero results if the dominant Zionist lobbies actively worked against them -- as they do against Pakistan. Indian diplomatic success in the West is largely due to their Zionist mentors and Western strategic interests rather than Indians themselves. The only place where this dynamic doesn't hold is in the Middle East and there we clearly see a more level playing field.

I am not discounting the efforts and qualifications of NRIs, which are many, but am pointing out the other salient facts which you didn't mention. NRIs are no more or less integrated or productive than other immigrant groups. The numbers are slanted in favor of NRIs mostly because of a huge recent influx of IT professionals. Before that, most NRIs were of the Patel-motel variety, insulated and middle class.



Agreed.



Aside from the economic benefit, covered above, this one is nonsense. There is almost nothing the West needs to learn from India in terms of technology, least of all military technology. Even Russia is forming joint ventures with India purely for the money (and to annoy the West), not to learn anything.

If you're downplaying the role of a wealthy overseas contingent, who are well integrated, on the whole pretty successful and well qualified, then you can do so. I see the strides that NRI's are making, and their influence will grow. It's early days, but just like the Jews who've done incredibly well say here in the UK, then the Indian's are moving in that direction. And I would say that NRI's (British born for example), are more integrated into the British way of life than Pakistani's.

And I don't buy Obama sitting there and saying "I need to please Indians, let me get some of them involved in my set-up". And even if he did, then that agrees with the point I'm making, and that is India's clout is growing and will continue to grow.

The way we're managing our country will see us continuing to head in the opposite direction.

Your point regarding JV's seems a slight contradiction. You say the need for it is nonsense, and then say that the only reason that Russia is doing it is for the money. Again the point about 'Russia wanting to annoy the West' is without foundation, and similar to the one you make about Obama wanting to please Indian's.

I come back to the overriding point and that is India's clout is growing due to many factors. Whether you agree with the points I make or not, their progress, diversification in trading partners etc is of importance and directly impinges whatever voice we have to make our concerns acknowledged and actioned on.

 

[whocares]

If you think the West's relations with India are due to NRIs, you've got the wrong end of the stick. Obama doesn't favor India because he is influenced by the NRIs, he appoints NRIs to please India. Similarly with other western governments and media. India has a big consumer base, so they hire Indians to communicate with them. It is not a coincidence that Fareed Zakaria on CNN airs at prime time in India, not the US. Similarly with BBC presenters of Indian descent.

NRI lobbying is insignificant and would produce zero results if the dominant Zionist lobbies actively worked against them -- as they do against Pakistan. Indian diplomatic success in the West is largely due to their Zionist mentors and Western strategic interests rather than Indians themselves. The only place where this dynamic doesn't hold is in the Middle East and there we clearly see a more level playing field.

I am not discounting the efforts and qualifications of NRIs, which are many, but am pointing out the other salient facts which you didn't mention. NRIs are no more or less integrated or productive than other immigrant groups. The numbers are slanted in favor of NRIs mostly because of a huge recent influx of IT professionals. Before that, most NRIs were of the Patel-motel variety, insulated and middle class.

nice attempt to cheapshot NRIs as tech support but they're making their way to the top of US technology and financial corporations as managers / researchers. They're also among the most successful enterpreneurs.

a lot of the intellectual property owned by the western technology companies is generated by indians and lots of research divisions at companies like apple / google / microsoft are headed by indians.

a lot of them are leading researchers in business and deans/profs at the top b schools, which are the bastions of top level business cliques.

i won't comment much about how/if this translates into political power (because i don't understand that well), but reaching the upper end of the finance/business/bschool/tech/enterpreneur community sure is a nice way to start off.

 

[deckingraj]

Of course the comments were for Indians. He needs those trade contracts implemented, whether he is still in India or back home. Pakistan is rightly concerned because he used Pakistan as a scapegoat to butter-up India for his trade contracts.

It was you who said that he said it while in India and not in London....Now you are saying that irrespective of where he is saying it is just for India....Anyway's it a dead path so lets not dwell more into it....

Because the West believes that the only real upcoming Asian superpower and potential challenger to Western hegemony is China. As such it needs to be kept preoccupied with matters closer to home, so it won't make trouble on the global front. Japan is looking less and less reliable as a stalwart military ally.

Then you are plane wrong...B/W your logic was more into economy....So in short there is more to so called Indian economic clout that west is after.....Also remember if we go by the same forecast(which shows China ahead of India) then west should not help India as well....We would be a 2 trillion dollar economy y 2015 and definitely on the same path as is China....

What i want you to ponder over is what is that extra that India has apart from similarities with China that west is after us

- Like China our markets are very lucrative...
- Like China we are projected to be economic hub ...
- Like China we have loads and loads of manpower....

one simple answer would be we have no clash of interests with western world....Now think why???

Why bother? you were getting all the military benefits anyway while wearing the NAM colors.

It is the NAM which proved to be backbone complemented with some well timed diplomatic maneuvers and economy which helped us achieve this...Nothing to bother...just calling spade a spade...

60 billion is peanuts for China.

Its funny how people just undermine a whopping amount like $60 Billion....If that is the case then why they don't given such a pea-nut amount to their all-weather friend especially when they need $$$ badly??? b/w the point is the direction in which these two countries are going....This amount is increase mani-folds each year...Also please remember China is India's biggest trading partner...So much it speaks for the address written on weapons that we are buying...

And China knows exactly whose address is written on those weapons India is buying/building.

What china very well know is that these weapons will come into picture if they choose to use military might....In short if you are strong people will respect you...The way we respect China the same way they respect us....It works well for the overall peace...

Business is not in the business of caring, only profits, wherever they come from. And governments only pay lip service to democratic alliances; the US has perfectly normal relations with China and Saudi Arabia, yet ostracizes the democractically elected government of Hamas.

All i am sayingis that it is common sense that countries with similar democratic set-up will find it easier to come close then other set-ups...Not sure what part you are not comfortable with....

B/W above you were quoting that west consider China as potential challenger and here you are quoting US has perfectly normal relations with China...Something is not clicking together....Anyways i will concentrate on the overall message then being nit picky....

 

[jbond197]

India, Pakistan to take trust building process forward

Asia Times Online :: South Asia news, business and economy from India and Pakistan

http://www.eurasiaview.com/20100717...talks-qureshi-spoils-a-great-opportunity.html


Now stop cryin and ur bs rants!

WTH, I asked you to provide a credible and neutral source to prove that Bugti holds Indian passport and Indian FM acknowlefged it.

See What BS you have posted? Out of three links you provided first is pakistani source. Second one is written by a Pakistani journalist and the third one is not working.

Even then in all your so called brilliant authentic neutral sources where did you find the Indian FM acknowledged the BS claims of Quereshi?
All it put forth are the claims ur FM has made which is not worth a dime for anybody other than Pakistanis.

So you better stop crying and ur rants.

 

[SMC]

^ At least the first link and the secondhas that information. I didn't even bother reading the one after that. So do read the article before getting ahead of yourself.

Btw, this was in the same press conference where Krishna said that India has not received any evidence on Balochistan. Indians were all over that, from my memory.

 

[karan.1970]

^ Yes..it is from the same conference and Quereshi in the same conf said that the Indian Home minister had assured Rehman Malik that if Bugti holds an Indian passport and if he is proven to be a Pakistani national, his passport will be cancelled. 2 very big Ifs.. Dont think either or them has been proven yet..

 

[SMC]

Thanks for correcting me, but regardless, my point was more regarding the ignorance of some, which was quite surprising given how popular some other certain words were from the same press conference.