India fuming over Russia lifting its Pakistan arms embargo, what next?

[Hulk]

India doesn't own Russia of course not but it is common sense Russia will follow the money, I'll just outline the current deals large defence India has with Russia:

FGFA- $30BN
Su-30MKIs (and Super Upgrades)- around $3BN
29 follow-on MiG-29K/KUB $1.2BN
Bhramos ongoing orders- value hard to estimate but upwards of $5BN easily
T-90S- $1.5BN
MiG-29UPG- around $700MN


Prospective deals:

3 more Talwar class stealth frigates- $1BN
LUH/RSH-$1.5BN
2 more A-50 for 2 follow-on PHALCON AWACS for the IAF- $500MN

There's lots i'm omitting I'm sure but I think you get the picture.


It's pretty clear Russia stands to gain A LOT more from India than Pakistan and the first rule of business is the customer is always right. Forget the talk of friendships, this is pure business and right now and looking ahead India is the more attractive market than Pakistan unless this changes nothing will change.


If you can give me one reason Russia should put 10s and 10s of billions of money in their pocket on the line, at a time the West is putting the squeeze on other potential defence markets for Russia, and go for this deal with Paksitan I am all ears....




I would say that the Indian media gets away with spewing a lot BS by citing "unnamed sources", every time I see something written by the Indian media that doesn't really go along with what is officially accepted the article is using these pesky "unnamed sources" making it very hard to take such news seriously.


At the same time I would say that Russia has shot itself in the foot big time IF this is true. Not two years ago Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin stated himself Russia would never arm India's enemies and now look......




Let's be honest if it really is a "us or them" ultimatum laid down by India, Russia isn't going to choose Pakistan....


Still has billions in defence deals to themselves, they may be greedy but they are not stupid yes they've lot out in many deals but they are still getting a lot of business from India.

They do not understand that Pakistan hardly can give any business to them. Even if they have opened doors to you, how much can you really buy with broke economy? In contrast even when India has reduced purchase from Russia still whatever they have is way more than what Pakistan can offer. Therefore India can use its influence to stifle or reduce the size of deal.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

They do not understand that Pakistan hardly can give any business to them. Even if they have opened doors to you, how much can you really buy with broke economy? I

so why are you guys loosing sleep over it? if that business is hardly anything of value?
my o my... only on a news report with nothing decided .... you guys have gone absolutely loco.

Wrote this guy a mail demanding facts.

Nowhere has India officially stated that they are 'fuming'. There is concern but every country can be 'concerned' just like you were 'concerned' about the 'collective conscience of South Asia' before our new PM officially took the oath.

It is funny how two-timing news traders can write anything to gain a few brownie points.

I assure you that none of the Indians except a few ignorant hormone driven teenagers are offended by this move.

Russia has the right to sell to anyone they want. They are pragmatic and saving their military industry.

Besides, if the Mi-35s can help you guys kill some TTP lunatics, I think you will be doing the world a big favour.

bravo
couldnt have expected any better than this

 

[amitkriit]

I believe Russia failed to assess the Indian response. This decision must have been taken before 16th of May. US had committed a similar mistake when it failed to gauge the Indian response during Khobragade episode.

This is what a weak government does to you, even the so-called friends become sneaky.

 

[Hulk]

so why are you guys loosing sleep over it? if that business is hardly anything of value?
my o my... only on a news report with nothing decided .... you guys have gone absolutely loco.


bravo
couldnt have expected any better than this

Not really, its the way you are looking. We are just doing what I said, trying to stifle it. Unfortunately these things are not done privately which gives you that impression.

 

[Faraz5000]

Well.......Its a business Guys..! When India Scraps Russian bid for their MRCA Aircraft deal..! and ignore & despair old russian frndshp and goes for western technology that Pakistan was already seeking from last 50 years..! Then it is highly justifiable..! for Russia to make their move to open arm embargo to Pakistan as Indians Think tanks already Ditched Russians on many occasions..!

 

[Hasnain Ashfaq]

Its like a crazy overly attached girlfriend emotionally blackmailing her boy friend (Who was with her reluctantly) :p

 

[Screambowl]

Of course not, since they don't pose a credible threat to Indian security, just like the Mi 17s didn't and even the RD 93 sale is not a big issue for us, when we keep getting more advanced stuff at the same time. The deals with Pakistan have no strategic relevance, even though the media and some people want to make it. More troubleing from the Indian point of view are the deals with China, that actually could also pose a threat to Indian security.

Because some see it as Pakistan's building defense partnership with the Russians, this could the first steps?

 

[foxbat]

Bunch of morons these News Analysts. There is nothing Russia can give Pakistan that Pakistan could have not bought in the international arms markets otherwise even earlier. The problem Pakistan has always had is the availability of money to make the purchase. Not any arms embargo. That is why its been dependent mostly on USA and China since they provide these arms in terms of Aid / Soft loans. No way Russia is going to do that. So in my view, its a non issue except probably will give India some high ground with Russia in next series of negotiations.

 

[sancho]

Because some see it as Pakistan's building defense partnership with the Russians, this could the first steps?

Of course not, Russia is just taking the momentum, since they sold their helicopters to Pakistan and Afghanistan even funded by the US and now want to pitch combat helicopters too. The fact that western sources will find it difficult to sell arms to Pakistan today, simply opens the way for Russia as an alternative to the Chinese supplies.
In fact, if they earn some additional money it's even helping us, since we don't have to pay to keep their industry running. Russia however knows very well, that they can't afford to lose India as the sole independent source for defence exports and joint projects, so they will sell things carefully, at least to Pakistan.

 

[Markus]

India has been very unkind in its behaviour towards Russia.

India pressures Russia not to supply offensive weapons to Pakistan but at the same time India is unable to exert enough pressure on France and USA which are supplying weapons to Pakistan. AT the same time, India is buying more and more weapons from France and USA. Russia is bound to feel sidelined.

India should allow Russia to supply any weapons to Pakistan it feels like supplying. Afterall, even Russia needs all the money it can get.

 

[MilSpec]

India has been very unkind in its behaviour towards Russia.

India pressures Russia not to supply offensive weapons to Pakistan but at the same time India is unable to exert enough pressure on France and USA which are supplying weapons to Pakistan. AT the same time, India is buying more and more weapons from France and USA. Russia is bound to feel sidelined.

India should allow Russia to supply any weapons to Pakistan it feels like supplying. Afterall, even Russia needs all the money it can get.

educate yourself about India's main defense suppliers. Indo-Russian ties in defense sector are higher than it has ever been in the history of both the nations, with A/C Carriers, Mig29K/Kub's. PMF FGFA, Akula Class Subs, Atgms, T90M's, SU 30MKI, Talwar class frigates, brahmos, Mil 17V5 etc

 

[illuminatidinesh]

No, they have had access to Soviet-era tech but using that to build better designs.

The QC-280 engine in the type-52D destroyer is better than the original Ukrainian engine it is based on.

China is now using knowledge from this, current collaboration with Ukraine and its indigenous efforts to build new generation engines like WS-15 for J-20 and CJ-1000A for C-919.

Only Indians think the world's richest country already in PPP, and soon to be in nominal, will fail to produce competent engines that all other members of the P5 have already done.

So your logic is that someone who is riding a ferrari gets beaten by a kid riding the bicycle?
Cant help u certainly not me.

 

[Hulk]

Of course not, Russia is just taking the momentum, since they sold their helicopters to Pakistan and Afghanistan even funded by the US and now want to pitch combat helicopters too. The fact that western sources will find it difficult to sell arms to Pakistan today, simply opens the way for Russia as an alternative to the Chinese supplies.
In fact, if they earn some additional money it's even helping us, since we don't have to pay to keep their industry running. Russia however knows very well, that they can't afford to lose India as the sole independent source for defence exports and joint projects, so they will sell things carefully, at least to Pakistan.

There is another aspect, if Russia develops friendship with Pakistan. It will help in India and Pak relationship as well. There are people who think that some magic will happen and suddenly Pakistan will be better placed against India. Things don't work that way, everything is related to economics and self reliance and it takes time to come out the situation Pakistan currently is, right now.

 

[Kompromat]

Regardless of if we buy anything from Russia or not, this move does validate Pakistan's growing diplomatic clout.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Its PHUNNy , because India deals with Russian enemies , YOU KNOW WHO all the time , they bought tones of weaapons from them ?

Masala Hypocracy