India fuming over Russia lifting its Pakistan arms embargo, what next?

[Thorough Pro]

india is behaving like it was Russia's bitch? come on this is international politics. in the backdrop of Crimea annexation and world's attitude, Russia needs new dependable partners.

 

[gslv mk3]

And I saw analysis that either Rafale or FGFA may not be adequate to counter a fully developed J-20, which may turn out to be superior to both by the time they enter service around 2020.

Lets see about that.

For Indians man grow up we are least interested with Russian equipment other than helicopters at most we make try to get an engine for our JF-17 Thunder other than that no Sir we either make our own or get from China or some where else and as for helicopter I think MI-28 yes we should go for but MI-35 is just a joke

Oh please,even with decades of experience and billions of dollars in R&D,China is still struggling with them.

 

[Zarvan]

Lets see about that.



Oh please,even with decades of experience and billions of dollars in R&D,China is still struggling with them.

Its you and your Russia who is most struggling not China China is every second day coming up with improved engines and other systems

 

[gslv mk3]

Its you and your Russia who is most struggling not China China is every second day coming up with improved engines and other systems

China is coming up with 'improved engines' and Russia is struggling with them ?

Dude please ..........

 

[pursuit of happiness]

india is behaving like it was Russia's bitch? come on this is international politics. in the backdrop of Crimea annexation and world's attitude, Russia needs new dependable partners.

--
mind your langauge

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

india is behaving like it was Russia's bitch? come on this is international politics. in the backdrop of Crimea annexation and world's attitude, Russia needs new dependable partners.

Cmon Russia won't like to have used bitches of US a then China.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Cmon Russia won't like to have used bitches of US a then China.

--
dont fall in mud with him
let him enjoy his past time there..

 

[MilSpec]

You may find the above relevant and interesting. There is no marauding herds waiting to assault you, its just that you may be forced to choose sides as a consequence of China's technological advance. No more luxury of non-alignment.

You sure about the herds, last I heard you and your brethren's are waiting to break up India in tiny little pieces.

USSR and USA couldn't force a poor and weak India's leadership to pick sides, and china would? the gap lies in your understanding of concept of sovereignty of India

All 2nd Tier 2 stuff.

US only sells equipment to countries it does not feel it is a threat to them. That is why it never sold arms to former Soviet Union and refuses to sell to China now. It is terrified of China's rise.

EFT, Rafale, Phalcon Awacs are tier 2 stuff? that shows your understanding.

 

[The Archnazi]

india is behaving like it was Russia's bitch? come on this is international politics. in the backdrop of Crimea annexation and world's attitude, Russia needs new dependable partners.

the only bitches we know are u guys, u were owned by the americans first and now the chinese, mark my words, u people aint gonna get shit from the Russians, be contented with your cheap chinese knockoffs of the excellent platforms

 

[trident2010]

Russia won't give stuff for free or as an aid or on credit. It needs hard cash. How much Pakistan can buy from Russia in hard cash? $10mil or $1bn or $2bn?

Indian army or airforce buy more than total budget of Pakistan defence each year from Russia. Everything is just symbolic, no need to get serious about it.

 

[UKBengali]

EFT, Rafale, Phalcon Awacs are tier 2 stuff? that shows your understanding.

Phalcon AWACS is nothing special, it is just a surveillance aircraft. Whether an airforce has KJ-2000 AWACs from China or Phalcon AWACs will not much difference to their combat capability.

The rest are previous generation fighters that F-22 would shoot out of the sky likes flies. China's J-10B is at a similar level to EFT and Rafale.

For China to catch up to Russia, 20 years is again wishful thinking. The only area where Russia and Ukraine has an edge is jet engines. My personal estimate, in around 7-10 years max China will be able to mass produce engines as good or better than Russians.

India's own defense industry is not in the same league where air superiority fighters are concerned, so lets keep that out of the discussion.

The reason why I bring up this issue is to point out, which you have agreed with, is that India saw early on that their option of utilizing Russian weapons to keep balance with Chinese conventional weapons will no longer remain an option. FGFA will probably be the last major program between India and Russia. And I saw analysis that either Rafale or FGFA may not be adequate to counter a fully developed J-20, which may turn out to be superior to both by the time they enter service around 2020.

What this means is that loosing this Russia option to balance Chinese weapons, India will no longer have the ability to pursue non-alignment and will have to embrace the West, if they want to get the best weapons they have to offer, such as F-35.

For the above reason, I believe in about 5 years India will have no choice but to become a partner of Western security structure and thus become a major non-NATO ally like Japan.



You may find the above relevant and interesting. There is no marauding herds waiting to assault you, its just that you may be forced to choose sides as a consequence of China's technological advance. No more luxury of non-alignment.

By 2020 I agree with you that China will have caught up with Russia in propulsion in all its forms; be it fighter turbofan, submarine diesel or nuclear and ship gas-turbine.

Silly Indians also do not realise that Ukraine has been giving China open access to Soviet-era engine technology for a long time. The QC-280 in China's latest Type-052D destroyer is based on a Ukrainian design. Also, China and Ukraine have partnered to produce the next-generation of engines for many types of applications.

With China already the world's largest economy in PPP, and set to surpass US by nominal before 2020, Russia has realised the game is up and is partnering with China to produce a 400-seat air-plane. China's huge capital reserves is allowing it to develop at a much greater rate than Russia.

I suspect these Indians are not as stupid as their words may make them up to be, but they cannot bring themselves to say that China will soon surpass Russia and start then competing directly with the US on who can produce the most advanced weapons systems.

 

[Screambowl]

@sancho please tell us , would it be a disastrous for India if Pakistan gets those helis?

 

[sancho]

@sancho please tell us , would it be a disastrous for India if Pakistan gets those helis?

Of course not, since they don't pose a credible threat to Indian security, just like the Mi 17s didn't and even the RD 93 sale is not a big issue for us, when we keep getting more advanced stuff at the same time. The deals with Pakistan have no strategic relevance, even though the media and some people want to make it. More troubleing from the Indian point of view are the deals with China, that actually could also pose a threat to Indian security.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Phalcon AWACS is nothing special, it is just a surveillance aircraft. Whether an airforce has KJ-2000 AWACs from China or Phalcon AWACs will not much difference to their combat capability.
The rest are previous generation fighters that F-22 would shoot out of the sky likes flies. China's J-10B is at a similar level to EFT and Rafale.

They are worth more than u think, F22 is not going to shoot all planes around the world.

By 2020 I agree with you that China will have caught up with Russia in propulsion in all its forms; be it fighter turbofan, submarine diesel or nuclear and ship gas-turbine.
Silly Indians also do not realise that Ukraine has been giving China open access to Soviet-era engine technology for a long time. The QC-280 in China's latest Type-052D destroyer is based on a Ukrainian design. Also, China and Ukraine have partnered to produce the next-generation of engines for many types of applications.
With China already the world's largest economy in PPP, and set to surpass US by nominal before 2020, Russia has realised the game is up and is partnering with China to produce a 400-seat air-plane. China's huge capital reserves is allowing it to develop at a much greater rate than Russia.
I suspect these Indians are not as stupid as their words may make them up to be, but they cannot bring themselves to say that China will soon surpass Russia and start them competing directly with the US on who can produce the most advanced weapons systems.

U yourself say its soviet era tech then how is that gonna catch up the current tech?
I still dont know why are u hell bound in marketing the Chinese defense products?

 

[UKBengali]

U yourself say its soviet era tech then how is that gonna catch up the current tech?
I still dont know why are u hell bound in marketing the Chinese defense products?

No, they have had access to Soviet-era tech but using that to build better designs.

The QC-280 engine in the type-52D destroyer is better than the original Ukrainian engine it is based on.

China is now using knowledge from this, current collaboration with Ukraine and its indigenous efforts to build new generation engines like WS-15 for J-20 and CJ-1000A for C-919.

Only Indians think the world's richest country already in PPP, and soon to be in nominal, will fail to produce competent engines that all other members of the P5 have already done.