India fuming over Russia lifting its Pakistan arms embargo, what next?

[pursuit of happiness]

If they get bullock cart from China they call it Tank

becasue it has DSI

 

[Abingdonboy]

They getting $$ and India paying $$ because of you already using their weapns from past 60 years... you want spares and making deal with them. Nobody can shutdown all infrastructure in single day and move to other...

What are you saying? Be clear...

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

-
as per some pak member
russians sell junk to india
but china sell alien tech to pak
even jf17 have dsi and can beat f22.. one of their members view

That 1 member is Chinese not Pakistani..

Nor do we claim su-30 is gods gift to aviation .. Lca has an RCS of 0.1 or .2 .. N other nonsense..

 

[pursuit of happiness]

That 1 member is Chinese not Pakistani..

Nor do we claim su-30 is gods gift to aviation .. Lca has an RCS of 0.1 or .2 .. N other nonsense..

--
he has candian flag... he is not pakistani
it was just for humour..
we too have flying tank with huge RCS
LCA will proved when AF say its our baby

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

India doesn't own Russia of course not but it is common sense Russia will follow the money, I'll just outline the current deals large defence India has with Russia:

FGFA- $30BN
Su-30MKIs (and Super Upgrades)- around $3BN
29 follow-on MiG-29K/KUB $1.2BN
Bhramos ongoing orders- value hard to estimate but upwards of $5BN easily
T-90S- $1.5BN
MiG-29UPG- around $700MN


Prospective deals:

3 more Talwar class stealth frigates- $1BN
LUH/RSH-$1.5BN
2 more A-50 for 2 follow-on PHALCON AWACS for the IAF- $500MN

There's lots i'm omitting I'm sure but I think you get the picture.


It's pretty clear Russia stands to gain A LOT more from India than Pakistan and the first rule of business is the customer is always right. Forget the talk of friendships, this is pure business and right now and looking ahead India is the more attractive market than Pakistan unless this changes nothing will change.


If you can give me one reason Russia should put 10s and 10s of billions of money in their pocket on the line, at a time the West is putting the squeeze on other potential defence markets for Russia, and go for this deal with Paksitan I am all ears....




I would say that the Indian media gets away with spewing a lot BS by citing "unnamed sources", every time I see something written by the Indian media that doesn't really go along with what is officially accepted the article is using these pesky "unnamed sources" making it very hard to take such news seriously.


At the same time I would say that Russia has shot itself in the foot big time IF this is true. Not two years ago Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin stated himself Russia would never arm India's enemies and now look......




Let's be honest if it really is a "us or them" ultimatum laid down by India, Russia isn't going to choose Pakistan....


Still has billions in defence deals to themselves, they may be greedy but they are not stupid yes they've lot out in many deals but they are still getting a lot of business from India.

Also makes india more dependent on Russia.. Maybe it's a tactic from Pak side to press US for the super cobras or negotiate with Turkey .. Not a single statement was given by Pak on this matter .. Only Russians stated it..

 

[Windjammer]

If they get bullock cart from China they call it Tank

But even when you get a decent aircraft from Russia you turn it into Ganges material.

 

[Secret Service]

Dont worry India will make sure US or Russia never give any war machine to Pakistan.......Pakistan have no other option but to buy junks from China

still you got pain in arss by this junk..

 

[pursuit of happiness]

But even when you get a decent aircraft from Russia you turn it into Ganges material.

--
(deliberate )ignore at it best

 

[HAIDER]

If Indian think terrorism is issue in South Asia then they shouldn't oppose this deal. If they think terrorism is not issue and weapon will be used against them, then its their call. They have all right to oppose and try weak their arch rival much as possible. Because these helo is need of moment and its all for anti insurgency.
Both countries are nuclear armed with delivery system. So, its pointless to discuss small items and which are already few in number and can not disturb the regional balance in any form.
A helicopter with small gun and few rockets and 8 soldier will not destroy the peace among billions.

agree ????

 

[Abingdonboy]

Also makes india more dependent on Russia..

On one hand you have members here claiming Russia is annoyed at India because India is diversifying its purchases and going to the US more and more and now you're saying India is too dependant on Russia? You can't have it both ways...


Simple fact is India is diversifying across the board so buying from Russia AND US AND Japan AND Europe. It's not black and white.

Maybe it's a tactic from Pak side to press US for the super cobras or negotiate with Turkey

Perhaps. What has always perplexed me is that whilst the US is selling the world's most advanced gunship (AH-64E) to India, they won't offer the Super Conbra to Pakistan which is less capable and not exactly going to change the power balance in the region.

 

[gslv mk3]

They getting $$ and India paying $$ because of you already using their weapns from past 60 years... you want spares and making deal with them. Nobody can shutdown all infrastructure in single day and move to other...

Not Just for spares

Sukhoi/HAL FGFA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

UAC/HAL Il-214 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

... BTW, do the Indian Mirages or MiG-29s participate in all it's exercises. You don't even see Mirage-2000 on the Indian republic day fly past, forget MiG-21s or 27s. !!

Single engined aircraft are never flown on republic day flypasts.

 

[illusion8]

On a scale of 1 to 10, how fuming?

The "fuming" is Russian imagination.

They are scripting this whole nonsense - just line up their statements and see it in black and white.

We have lifted the embargo - says one Russian.
We did not have an embargo - says another.
We will not sell any equipment - you may spit on my face if we do - says one more.
We will never sell any sensitive equipment - says another.
India hasn't issued any statement, but they might - says one more.
India is / might be fuming - says another.

Though there have been no official statements so far, it seems that India would like Russia to scrap its plans to lift arms sale embargo on Pakistan completely. Nothing less than that would satisfy New Delhi.


Indubitably, the Indian diplomats would be reminding Rogozin of his remarks along with press clippings when he arrives in New Delhi at the end of this month.


While the Indians have dropped hints to Russians about their “us or them” approach – meaning that it is for Russia to choose between India and Pakistan – India has not come up with any official statement so far, nor is it likely to.

Nobody from India has officially conveyed the “us or them” approach to the Russians officially, nor has anyone told the Russians that India would go slow on its current defense deals with Russia and push the pause button in its relationship with Russia, but the fact is that all these are strong possibilities.

Everything's just conjecture - I wonder that they do want us to raise a token objection, and looks like that one of our official might - just to make them happy a bit.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I have always wondered what will happen when Chinese jet engines, fighters and other weapons systems become superior to Russian weapons systems, lets say in about 10 years. Is that a possibility at all, what do people here think?

No way will this happen in 10 years- the Russians have decades upon decades of expertise that is second only to the US in defence products. China, despite what they say, won't be overtaking Russia on the technology front for a long long time. The Russians had a dip in form post the collapse of the Soviet union but now they are getting up to speed again and aren't going to sit by and allow the likes of China to overtake them.

 

[HAIDER]

US Army Mi24

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

On one hand you have members here claiming Russia is annoyed at India because India is diversifying its purchases and going to the US more and more and now you're saying India is too dependant on Russia? You can't have it both ways...

I doubt you can replace russian/soviet equipment with American stuff .. The thing is that most of your equipment is of Russian origin n even if you want to fk with Russia you can't .. Because you are dependent n will be dependent on them now n the foreseeable future .. Russia won't lose much .. Nor do I see India putting all eggs in us basket to say the least.

Simple fact is India is diversifying across the board so buying from Russia AND US AND Japan AND Europe. It's not black and white.

Japan can't sell weapons .. The planes you boast are for SAR rather than ASW.. Europe they will sell anything for money.. N have no problem selling to both sides .. Nor does USA.

Perhaps. What has always perplexed me is that whilst the US is selling the world's most advanced gunship (AH-64E) to India, they won't offer the Super Conbra to Pakistan which is less capable and not exactly going to change the power balance in the region.

That's your assumptions .. That's exactly what India said when n viola F-16s landed .. And so on .. Super cobra is no problem .. Heck they were to be handed under CSF .. If Pak wants to buy apaches I doubt USA would back off .. Hard cash .. I'm sure apaches aren't shit infront of latest block 52+ !!

Another advantage we have is geography n USA Afghanistan ..