India faces a new reality in Afghanistan (good read)

[Path-Finder]

One thing that I draw from the 18 years of war in this region. India was meant to replace Pakistan 100% in afghanistan, which the indians sold to the US very well. However the sale pitch may have been presented very well but it was a defected sale in the grand scheme of things. Just look at the situation today.

as india was faced with one hurdle in south asia which was going to be dismantled by western nations in the backdrop and india with their new afghani minion NDS playing on the front. they waged a huge campaign of terrorism from afghanistan but that too was foiled and if anything. The west actually realised a destabilized Pakistan is NOT in their interest and actually helped Pakistan too. which did not sit well with delhi.

As time moved on to present the usefulness of india became apparent as they were there to leech off the western powers safety umbrella for their own little terrorist games which has been successfully countered by Pakistan despite having incompetent gov in power for 10 long painful years.

Pakistan which is the stumbling block for indian dreams to become a regional godfather will never materialise, other than having bangladesh to influence as it seems. At the end of the day india will not commit to bringing its soldiers to afghanistan and since you can only "rent an afghan" it's better for the yanks to stop being the policeman of the world as Trump just said so.

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Just my opinion.

 

[waz]

but should we expect Pak assited taliban 2.0 t have the same gusto of the 90's or will you try to evolve them into a bit of diet- talban, like all the burkha's- public beating?

Anyways @waz if the article does state a probable scenario in Afghanistan, on a personal level how does it feel to be accused as a state that is a Taliban facilitator in this day and age?

I don't know, how about being proactive and writing off to the Pakistani government about whether we will see Taliban Lite or not? The BBC aired quite a in-depth, rare look at the current movement, with reporters going in to regions where the Taliban run parallel administrations alongside the government, or controlled the region outright. There were significant changes such as education for girls, the teaching of secular subjects and various other programs going on. The 90's were over 20 years ago and many of the old guard died in the fighting post 9/11 or simply passed on through age, so the Taliban of today do differ.
As for being accused of being a 'Taliban facilitator' you should know better that the world has moved on from labels and it's pretty much the age of political incorrectness. Trump doesn't give a fudge with regards to being called racist, Putin couldn't care less his country is accused of backing a brutal regime, the Iranians carry on business as usual and so on, welcome to the world of 'the end justifies the means'.
You'd also be better placed to ask that question to someone who is a citizen of Pakistan, as I'm not, nor have ever been.

Now I'll throw one back at ya, considering I answered your very poor attempt to shoot the messenger. How does it feel to have as a leader someone who giggled like an excited child when accounts of children being slaughtered, women being raped and old people being set on fire were read out to him?

 

[Vapnope]

The article paints India as an Anti- Taliban entity while Pakistan as a Pro-Taliban Entity.

It would only matter if US cut off diplomatic ties with Pakistan otherwise its a usual business. Russia and Iran have been accused as well in supporting Taliban. The final outcome of this bloody war is that American troops came here to end Taliban insurgency however they are the ones negotiating a deal with the same people they bombed.

 

[ziaulislam]

lets not reinforce the comprehension stereotype, read the article and try to comprehend what pakistan is attributed to.

I am simply stating what your PM and defense ministry states

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Pakistan which is the stumbling block for indian dreams to become a regional godfather will never materialise, other than having bangladesh to influence as it seems. At the end of the day india will not commit to bringing its soldiers to afghanistan and since you can only "rent an afghan" it's better for the yanks to stop being the policeman of the world as Trump just said so.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just my opinion.

As for BD, it's a double-edged sword!!!! From the strategic/military POVs, the stronger Pak and China get, the weaker BD gets due to the Indian plans!!! BD needs to be a "zero resistance" path for India, which makes it the same by default for Burma too...

It would only matter if US cut off diplomatic ties with Pakistan otherwise its a usual business. Russia and Iran have been accused as well in supporting Taliban. The final outcome of this bloody war is that American troops came here to end Taliban insurgency however they are the ones negotiating a deal with the same people they bombed.

From the US perspectives, Taliban under Pak influence >>>> Taliban under Iran/Russia...

 

[waz]

When was this instance? The only leaders in the sub-continent who I felt were un-abashed about such conduct were M.A Jinnah, Yahya Khan and Rajiv Gandhi.

Jinnah? Yes sure....Modi compared the dead to puppies, oh and he also referred to shelters treating Muslim victims of his cadres exploits "breeding centres".

 

[MilSpec]

I don't know, how about being proactive and writing off to the Pakistani government about whether we will see Taliban Lite or not? The BBC aired quite a in-depth, rare look at the current movement, with reporters going in to regions where the Taliban run parallel administrations alongside the government, or controlled the region outright. There were significant changes such as education for girls, the teaching of secular subjects and various other programs going on. The 90's were over 20 years ago and many of the old guard died in the fighting post 9/11 or simply passed on through age, so the Taliban of today do differ.
As for being accused of being a 'Taliban facilitator' you should know better that the world has moved on from labels and it's pretty much the age of political incorrectness. Trump doesn't give a fudge with regards to being called racist, Putin couldn't care less his country is accused of backing a brutal regime, the Iranians carry on business as usual and so on, welcome to the world of 'the end justifies the means'.

Trump gives a lot of fudge about being branded as a racist, and given the situation I wouldn't be surprised if he does get impeached. (I really hope so); Putin has numerous murderous campaign to his account, and i am sure he will get his due. Now as far as Taliban lite, time will tell. I did not intend to shoot down the messenger at all, the point being the article in a subtle language potrays Pakistan as the taliban patron, while India antithetical to taliban. If the taliban 2.0 is indeed taliban lite (with it's secular curriculum as you mention); would Pakistan openly back this new taliban regime with the same gusto as it did for the retro Taliban.

Jinnah? Yes sure....Modi compared the dead to puppies, oh and he also referred to shelters treating Muslim victims of his cadres exploits "breeding centres".

I am aware of the puppy comment; i am not sure how well you can understand hindi, his comment was even if a puppy is run over by the car there is tremendous sorrow, you can imagine the magnitude of sorrow for terrible the loss of lives during the riots. That was the intent of the comment, rather misinterpreted by the news laundry as comparing Muslims with puppies. The next one I am not sure if you have read it context;

https://www.outlookindia.com/websit...ief-camps-open-child-producing-centres/217398

"Power hungry people are out to defame Gujarat. At such a time, the five crore people of Gujarat will gain strength from the blessings of Becharaji to build tomorrow’s glorious Gujarat.

We are dubbed Hinduwadi because we have allocated Rs eight crore towards the development of Becharaji. Is it our fault? Are we communal?

The Congress also accuses me of bringing the Narmada waters to the Sabarmati river in the month of Shravan. But the dam has already been built... I want to ask the Congress, why do you object if people on the banks of the Sabarmati derive spiritual peace through the Narmada waters brought in the month of Shravan? When you come to power, you are free to bring water during Ramzan.

When we allocate funds for Becharaji, they do not like it. And if we bring Narmada waters in the month of Shravan, then too they say they dislike it. So what should we do? Do we go and run relief camps? Should we open child producing centres?

We want to firmly implement family planning. Hum paanch, humare pachees(We five, our 25) (laughs). Who will benefit from this development? Is family planning not necessary in Gujarat? Where does religion come in its way? Where does community come in its way?

The population is rising in Gujarat, money isn’t reaching the poor? What’s the reason? They make a beeline, fix cycle punctures (Audience laughs).

If Gujarat is to be developed, then an economic system has to be developed where every child born in Gujarat gets education, manners and employment. And for this, those who are multiplying population at a rapid rate will need to learn a lesson. If we object to population growth, then too they dislike it. Will someone please tell me is there any (such) country in the world? Is there BJP rule in China? Yet, China has enacted laws to control population growth. Arrey, what does religion have to do with this?

We talk of madrasas. Madrasas have flourished in Gujarat. A child has a right to primary education. But a child going to a madrasa is deprived of primary education. What will such a child do once he grows up?

Those who have got no education, and got only religious education, would they not become a burden on Gujarat?

We started thinking about madrasas in Gujarat. When we express concern over madrasas, they call us communal. Why? The Communist government in West Bengal applies laws in madrasas, curbs their activities, and it is still secular? And if we try to regulate madrasas in Gujarat, we are dubbed as communal? After all, any institution has to be regulated.

If Gujarat needs peace, a long-term plan has to be drawn. The merchants of death will not be allowed to run their activities in Gujarat as they like."

 

[waz]

Trump gives a lot of fudge about being branded as a racist, and given the situation I wouldn't be surprised if he does get impeached. (I really hope so); Putin has numerous murderous campaign to his account, and i am sure he will get his due. Now as far as Taliban lite, time will tell. I did not intend to shoot down the messenger at all, the point being the article in a subtle language potrays Pakistan as the taliban patron, while India antithetical to taliban. If the taliban 2.0 is indeed taliban lite (with it's secular curriculum as you mention); would Pakistan openly back this new taliban regime with the same gusto as it did for the retro Taliban.

He doesn't care. He had Steve Bannon as an advisor and literally said the whole picture has to be looked out when some demonstrators clashed with the klan. Impeached? Santa will not be delivering this present, and there are no signs of it even beginning to move in that direction. Sorry Putin is going to get his due? From who? The man has been in office for years and is loved by the people.
The article does portray the Pakistan as a Taliban patron/friend/peace broker, it depends on which lens you through it. But the ground reality is that the very power that fought tooth and nail with the Taliban now sees them as power brokers in national government. Ideally the government will be a collection of folks, with the Taliban having a greater stake. For Pakistan to throw their support behind such a "reconciliation" government, I don't believe anyone would blink twice. If you also look at the sheer number of countries involved this only support my assertion.

As for the Modi stuff, I'm sorry the man is dirt, an RSS cadre for life and so on. Let's leave it.

 

[MilSpec]

He doesn't care. He had Steve Bannon as an advisor and literally said the whole picture has to be looked out when some demonstrators clashed with the klan. Impeached? Santa will not be delivering this present, and there are no signs of it even beginning to move in that direction. Sorry Putin is going to get his due? From who? The man has been in office for years and is loved by the people.
The article does portray the Pakistan as a Taliban patron/friend/peace broker, it depends on which lens you through it. But the ground reality is that the very power that fought tooth and nail with the Taliban now sees them as power brokers in national government. Ideally the government will be a collection of folks, with the Taliban having a greater stake. For Pakistan to throw their support behind such a "reconciliation" government, I don't believe anyone would blink twice. If you also look at the sheer number of countries involved this only support my assertion.

And where is bannon now? Given this is the US, it will deal with trump, it's not the first time we have a moron in the WH.
History has a funny way of bringing down giants, from romanovs, to saddam to gaddafi, usually theocracies end in the same way.

As for the Modi stuff, I'm sorry the man is dirt, an RSS cadre for life and so on. Let's leave it.

You are free to have that opinion, he is indeed RSS cadre for life and so on no different from jinnah being AIML guy, given Sangh and AIML were exact mirror images.

 

[khanz]

Afghanistan is a complete hell hole it has NOTHING to offer apart from drugs and zero accomplishments as a nation state even in cultural impact it's generally irrelevant even compared to even the likes of Pakistan so I don't understand why India or even Pakistan want to be involved with them so bad when even afghans themselves prefer to live in a so called failed state like Pak than their own country it should tell you something.
We don't even need them for central asia just annex the wakhan corridor and get direct border with tajikistan and it would actually decrease our border with afghanistan by a fair chunk and be a punishment for their belligerence against pak- Israel actually has the right idea in this respect lol

 

[MilSpec]

It would only matter if US cut off diplomatic ties with Pakistan otherwise its a usual business. Russia and Iran have been accused as well in supporting Taliban. The final outcome of this bloody war is that American troops came here to end Taliban insurgency however they are the ones negotiating a deal with the same people they bombed.

let me correct you there, America did not intervene in a taliban "insurgency", United Stated decimated the Mullah Omar led government of Taliban dubbed Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan with active co-operation from Pakistan which gained power in Afghanistan incidentally with the co-operation of Pakistan.

it's quite an equation here, you Aid Taliban to come to power, then 9/11 happens, you switch side to aid US to fight against Taliban, then you evacuate Taliban and AQ leadership into Pakistan, and now are brokering Taliban into Kabul government. Guess what happens a decade from now when taliban consolidates power in Afghanistan?

 

[TMA]

let me correct you there, America did not intervene in a taliban "insurgency", United Stated decimated the Mullah Omar led government of Taliban dubbed Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan with active co-operation from Pakistan which gained power in Afghanistan incidentally with the co-operation of Pakistan.

it's quite an equation here, you Aid Taliban to come to power, then 9/11 happens, you switch side to aid US to fight against Taliban, then you evacuate Taliban and AQ leadership into Pakistan, and now are brokering Taliban into Kabul government. Guess what happens a decade from now when taliban consolidates power in Afghanistan?

What happens in a decade? Another false flag event?

 

[pakdefender]

let me correct you there, America did not intervene in a taliban "insurgency", United Stated decimated the Mullah Omar led government of Taliban dubbed Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan with active co-operation from Pakistan which gained power in Afghanistan incidentally with the co-operation of Pakistan.

it's quite an equation here, you Aid Taliban to come to power, then 9/11 happens, you switch side to aid US to fight against Taliban, then you evacuate Taliban and AQ leadership into Pakistan, and now are brokering Taliban into Kabul government. Guess what happens a decade from now when taliban consolidates power in Afghanistan?

read this to get your facts right and the actual chronological order of events https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/unocal-bridas-taliban-and-the-turkmanistan-gas-pipeline.33935/

afterwards you'll stand corrected

Here is video from Sep 11 2003 , when you were having uncontrollable flatulence at the thought US-India bilateral agreement , America had high hopes from india and india had high hopes from US , it became a chicken and egg story and rest is history

America's india gambit in Afghanistan has failed , now its time to wake up

 

[MilSpec]

read this to get your facts right and the actual chronological order of events https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/unocal-bridas-taliban-and-the-turkmanistan-gas-pipeline.33935/

afterwards you'll stand corrected

Actually not at all, there nothing to dispute in the facts:
Pakistan Aided Taliban to come to power;
Pakistan Aided US invasion of afghanistan;
Pakistan sheltered Taliban and AQ leadership
And now "proudly" is brokering taliban back into negotiations.

In that order

 

[pakdefender]

Actually not at all, there nothing to dispute in the facts:
Pakistan Aided Taliban to come to power;
Pakistan Aided US invasion of afghanistan;
Pakistan sheltered Taliban and AQ leadership
And now "proudly" is brokering taliban back into negotiations.

In that order

lol ... relax , calm down and drink cold water ( or cold cow cola if you prefer that )
here is a more complete list

- Pakistan is born , despite shenanigans from Gandhi and Nehru
- Afghanistan votes against Pakistan's entry to join the UN
- For Nehru partition is unfinished business
- India stokes separatism in Pakistan using Pashtun Nationalism
- Afghanistan tries to create uprisings in FATA , Kabul Radio and Hindustan Radio do propaganda
- Afghanistan makes incursions into Pakistan , gets beaten back
- India supports terrorists in East Pakistan , till this day is proud of supporting terrorists
- India and Afghanistan align with Soviet Union
- Soviet Union invades Afghanistan,in collusion with the non-representative Afghan government supported by India
- BLA is trained in Moscow and supported by Afghanistan
- USSR gives scud missiles to Afghanistan , which are fired at Pakistan
- Civil war starts in Afghanistan
- USA gets involved , Pakistan is aligned with the USA
- Soviet Union collapses , exits Afghanistan
- USA abandons the region
- Civil war continues
- India back one group , Pakistan counters with backing the other
- Pakistan backed group wins
- India does randi rona
- Argentine firm set ground work for Turkmenistan pipeline
- US backed consortium wants the same
- Both talk to Taliban
- Taliban are leaning towards agreement with Argentine based bridas
- US threaten to cover Taliban in bombs
- Sep 11 happens
- US Attacks Afghanistan
- India sees an opportunity to attach itself to american appendage
- TTP is created and supported out of Afghanistan
- BLA is re-invented
- Pakistan once again does the needful to defend itself
- Pakistan overcomes the odds , conducts multiple military operations and begins to fence the border
- America sees its standing fall in the global arena in the Bush and Obama years
- Rise of Donald Trump
- America pulling out of Afghanistan and India left doing randi rona once again