India faces a new reality in Afghanistan (good read)

[MilSpec]

lol ... relax , calm down and drink cold water ( or cold cow cola if you prefer that )
here is a more complete list

- Pakistan is born , despite shenanigans from Gandhi and Nehru
- Afghanistan votes against Pakistan's entry to join the UN
- For Nehru partition is unfinished business
- India stokes separatism in Pakistan using Pashtun Nationalism
- Afghanistan tries to create uprisings in FATA , Kabul Radio and Hindustan Radio do propaganda
- Afghanistan makes incursions into Pakistan , gets beaten back
- India supports terrorists in East Pakistan , till this is proud of supporting terrorists
- India and Afghanistan align with Soviet Union
- Soviet Union invades Afghanistan,in collusion with the non-representative Afghan government supported by India
- BLA is trained in Moscow and supported by Afghanistan
- USSR gives scud missiles to Afghanistan , which are fired at Pakistan
- Civil war starts in Afghanistan
- USA gets involved , Pakistan is aligned with the USA
- Soviet Union collapses , exits Afghanistan
- USA abandons the region
- Civil war continues
- India back one group , Pakistan counters with backing the other
- Pakistan backed group wins
- India does randi rona
- Argentine firm set ground work for Turkmenistan pipeline
- US backed consortium wants the same
- Both talk to Taliban
- Taliban are leaning towards agreement with Argentine based bridas
- US threaten to cover Taliban in bombs
- Sep 11 happens
- US Attacks Afghanistan
- India sees an opportunity to attach itself to american appendage
- TTP is created and supported out of Afghanistan
- BLA is re-invented
- Pakistan once again does the needful to defend itself
- Pakistan overcomes the odds , conducts multiple military operations and begins to fence the border
- America sees its standing fall in the global arena in the Bush and Obama years
- Rise of Donald Trump
- America pulling out of Afghanistan and India left doing randi rona once again

No point in commenting on your post,

but as I have said multiple times, Conduct reflects upbringing, you just showed yours.

Thanks !

 

[pakdefender]

No point in commenting on your post,

but as I have said multiple times, Conduct reflects upbringing, you just showed yours.

Thanks !

No point commenting , since there is not much that you can comment on

The wind has been taken out of the windbag

 

[MilSpec]

No point commenting , since there is not much that you can comment on

The wind has been taken out of the windbag

Actually not at all, given you do not have the upbringing to be able to type a few lines without expletives and abuses, why engage with such an individual. I tend to be civil in my exchanges; when an individual is not even capable of a simple trait as civility, there is nothing to discuss at that point.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

India should send its troops in Afghanistan, to protect her interests, investments and Embassies and their true motives!

Hiding behind America, wont do u any good!


MOD EDIT: Language and insulting other member. Final warning and will be followed up with demerit points that may lead to a ban.

 

[Crystal-Clear]

The article paints India as an Anti- Taliban entity while Pakistan as a Pro-Taliban Entity. Even if India is driven out of Afghanistan by Taliban-pakistan alliance, I would be quite fine with it, but should we expect Pak assited taliban 2.0 t have the same gusto of the 90's or will you try to evolve them into a bit of diet- talban, like all the burkha's- public beating?

Anyways @waz if the article does state a probable scenario in Afghanistan, on a personal level how does it feel to be accused as a state that is a Taliban facilitator in this day and age?

those guys beat the crap out of Nato . no matter what type of government they make it isnt our headache .
.
.
our National Interest comes first .

Actually not at all, there nothing to dispute in the facts:
Pakistan Aided Taliban to come to power;
Pakistan Aided US invasion of afghanistan;
Pakistan sheltered Taliban and AQ leadership
And now "proudly" is brokering taliban back into negotiations.

In that order

do you know where we helped them ? they are holding more land then puppet government without any support .
only time will tell .

 

[khail007]

The tide is turning, what US (the third superpower) wanted to achieve in Afghanistan is miserably failed and also those who were supporting US policies in Afghanistan.
US overthrown the Taliban from power and now it seems to be again continuing from same end. World should learn from Vietnam and Afghanistan that every US prospective is not implementable so are those visionary blinds, only following US.

 

[Imran Khan]

The article paints India as an Anti- Taliban entity while Pakistan as a Pro-Taliban Entity. Even if India is driven out of Afghanistan by Taliban-pakistan alliance, I would be quite fine with it, but should we expect Pak assited taliban 2.0 t have the same gusto of the 90's or will you try to evolve them into a bit of diet- talban, like all the burkha's- public beating?

Anyways @waz if the article does state a probable scenario in Afghanistan, on a personal level how does it feel to be accused as a state that is a Taliban facilitator in this day and age?

trump letter to imran khan say it all

 

[mingle]

India can help America and can Help Afghanistan by sending theior troops anytime nothing is free..

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

Only reality is that US will maintain a permanent military presence in Afghanistan though troops levels would fluctuate from time to time.

 

[nahtanbob]

Actually not at all, there nothing to dispute in the facts:
Pakistan Aided Taliban to come to power;
Pakistan Aided US invasion of afghanistan;
Pakistan sheltered Taliban and AQ leadership
And now "proudly" is brokering taliban back into negotiations.

In that order

I am not sure what is proud to be a supporter of the Taliban

 

[Vapnope]

let me correct you there, America did not intervene in a taliban "insurgency", United Stated decimated the Mullah Omar led government of Taliban dubbed Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan with active co-operation from Pakistan which gained power in Afghanistan incidentally with the co-operation of Pakistan.

it's quite an equation here, you Aid Taliban to come to power, then 9/11 happens, you switch side to aid US to fight against Taliban, then you evacuate Taliban and AQ leadership into Pakistan, and now are brokering Taliban into Kabul government. Guess what happens a decade from now when taliban consolidates power in Afghanistan?

No, just for once lets not pick history from your favorite point only.

US aided insurgency against Soviets in Afghanistan.
Taliban and AL qaida born through the same money and weaponry.
Pakistan aided taliban govt in afghanistan.
Then US came to hunt same guys they funded earlier with the help of Pakistan.
Now after the longest war, Taliban are still there, Al qaida is still there, ISIS is also coming into play.
Suddenly USA wants to negotiate with taliban because they are gone from Kabul but not gone from Afghanistan as they wished.

Taliban will consolidate power in Afghanistan because USA is willing to give them greater role. Who is stopping USA to ramp up operations in Afghanistan?

 

[MilSpec]

No, just for once lets not pick history from your favorite point only.

US aided insurgency against Soviets in Afghanistan.
Taliban and AL qaida born through the same money and weaponry.
Pakistan aided taliban govt in afghanistan.
Then US came to hunt same guys they funded earlier with the help of Pakistan.
Now after the longest war, Taliban are still there, Al qaida is still there, ISIS is also coming into play.
Suddenly USA wants to negotiate with taliban because they are gone from Kabul but not gone from Afghanistan as they wished.

Taliban will consolidate power in Afghanistan because USA is willing to give them greater role. Who is stopping USA to ramp up operations in Afghanistan?

that is a quite comfortable story that Pakistan peddles, that taliban emanated from Mujhahideens of the Soviet war,

If you wan't to believe that sure go ahead, but if you dig down a little deeper, how Mulah Omar came to prominence after the avenging the child of the tribesmen who was molested by the local warlord, and this he did with 30 men under him from a local madarsa of singesar, growing populist movement under him, he gained momentum not during the Soviet occupation but a good 4 years after that. By now Dar ul ullom Haqqania was supplying truck loads of talibs to Mullah omar, and wonder who was arming training and funding them? For sure it wasn't the US, they had pulled out of the region post Soviet collapse. The major power structure in 1992-94 was divided between ahmed rashid dostum, Ahmed Shah Massoud, Burhanudeen Rabbani, Gulbudeen hekymetyaar, Jalaluddin haqqani, and some other players like Ismail Khan, Abdul ali mazari. abdul Sayyaf and Abdul Haq.
In 1992 at fall of Kabul Gen Dostum allied with Ahmed Shah Massoud, once that happened it was a domino effect and the another division of the Afghan army defected to Massoud, securing bagram airbase. This was a pivotal moment in the history of Afganistan, where Ahmed Shah Massoud did not enter Kabul or seize power, instead Rabbini was the made the President, as a power sharing arrangement, Hekmetyaar was made the prime minister but he did not accept the position, rather quite famously qouted that he will enter kabul with a naked sword. This led to massoud entering Kabul to preserve the peshawar accords.

Hekymetyaar laid seige to Kabul with the backing of Pakistan, this was the first instant where Pakistani showed it's true intent to install a Pashtun leader in Kabul, although Hezb forces of hekymetyaar were repulsed by jamiat and massoud, but they were still in arty range, and Pakistan brought in rocket arty, and then ensued one of the worst artylerry attack on Kabul.

All of this happened in 1992- And there was NO TALIBAN, NO MULLAH OMAR none of that. major players were Massoud, Mazari, Dostum, Sayyaf, and Hekymetyaar.


1992-1996 was the next phase of war where Taliban gains powers, allies with - Hezb -e - islami (hekymetyaar) and gets immense funding from Pakistan, to finish what they failed at in 1992.

Yes, all of these mujaheddin groups at one time fought Soviets with the help of US and Pakistan, they also fought among themselves, there was infighting between massoud and Hezb, there was infighting between sayyaf and hezb e whadat of Mazari, but none of these were shared "Mullah Omars Taliban values" (with the exception of maybe Abdul Rasul sayaaf)

When Mullah Omar rose to prominence, ISI bankrolled the logistics, the munition (same as it did for Hezb e islami in 1992) but this time with the difference of placing it's competent combatants as advisors in the ranks during the siege of kabul in 1996. between 92-96, pakistani mobilisation was so massive, that about 80-100k Pakistanis fought alongside Hekymetyaar, mullah omar, Haqqani, all under the umbrella network of Taliban

Try reading Ahmed Rashid's account of the rise of taliban.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

LoL indian investment and interest in Afghanistan is quickly going down the hill and fast

 

[Vapnope]

that is a quite comfortable story that Pakistan peddles, that taliban emanated from Mujhahideens of the Soviet war,

If you wan't to believe that sure go ahead, but if you dig down a little deeper, how Mulah Omar came to prominence after the avenging the child of the tribesmen who was molested by the local warlord, and this he did with 30 men under him from a local madarsa of singesar, growing populist movement under him, he gained momentum not during the Soviet occupation but a good 4 years after that. By now Dar ul ullom Haqqania was supplying truck loads of talibs to Mullah omar, and wonder who was arming training and funding them? For sure it wasn't the US, they had pulled out of the region post Soviet collapse. The major power structure in 1992-94 was divided between ahmed rashid dostum, Ahmed Shah Massoud, Burhanudeen Rabbani, Gulbudeen hekymetyaar, Jalaluddin haqqani, and some other players like Ismail Khan, Abdul ali mazari. abdul Sayyaf and Abdul Haq.
In 1992 at fall of Kabul Gen Dostum allied with Ahmed Shah Massoud, once that happened it was a domino effect and the another division of the Afghan army defected to Massoud, securing bagram airbase. This was a pivotal moment in the history of Afganistan, where Ahmed Shah Massoud did not enter Kabul or seize power, instead Rabbini was the made the President, as a power sharing arrangement, Hekmetyaar was made the prime minister but he did not accept the position, rather quite famously qouted that he will enter kabul with a naked sword. This led to massoud entering Kabul to preserve the peshawar accords.

Hekymetyaar laid seige to Kabul with the backing of Pakistan, this was the first instant where Pakistani showed it's true intent to install a Pashtun leader in Kabul, although Hezb forces of hekymetyaar were repulsed by jamiat and massoud, but they were still in arty range, and Pakistan brought in rocket arty, and then ensued one of the worst artylerry attack on Kabul.

All of this happened in 1992- And there was NO TALIBAN, NO MULLAH OMAR none of that. major players were Massoud, Mazari, Dostum, Sayyaf, and Hekymetyaar.


1992-1996 was the next phase of war where Taliban gains powers, allies with - Hezb -e - islami (hekymetyaar) and gets immense funding from Pakistan, to finish what they failed at in 1992.

Yes, all of these mujaheddin groups at one time fought Soviets with the help of US and Pakistan, they also fought among themselves, there was infighting between massoud and Hezb, there was infighting between sayyaf and hezb e whadat of Mazari, but none of these were shared "Mullah Omars Taliban values" (with the exception of maybe Abdul Rasul sayaaf)

When Mullah Omar rose to prominence, ISI bankrolled the logistics, the munition (same as it did for Hezb e islami in 1992) but this time with the difference of placing it's competent combatants as advisors in the ranks during the siege of kabul in 1996. between 92-96, pakistani mobilisation was so massive, that about 80-100k Pakistanis fought alongside Hekymetyaar, mullah omar, Haqqani, all under the umbrella network of Taliban

Try reading Ahmed Rashid's account of the rise of taliban.

Help me out here telling which one is incorrect,
- Taliban were given the weapons CIA supplied Pakistan
- Osama Bin Laden fought alongside "Mujahideen" in soviet war
- There was no ethnic pushtun group supported by Pakistan (Read US and Pakistan) against the soviets
- Taliban were not trained in the facilities funded by CIA
- Haqqanis were not part of group that was funded by USA in soviet afghan war

1989 Soviet leave Afghanistan and Pakistan comes up with 100k Taliban just like that who were not part of "Mujahideen" earlier.

 

[MilSpec]

Help me out here telling which one is incorrect,

Sure, will give it a try.

- Taliban were given the weapons CIA supplied Pakistan

You are right,
Taliban were armed with weapons supplied by Pakistan from CIA, given a lot was picked from middle eastern conflict; but then there were also Soviet captured weaponry, remnants of the hekymetyaar.

- Osama Bin Laden fought alongside "Mujahideen" in soviet war

Again you are correct
Absolutely like Dostum, helymetyar, haq, sayyaf, naderi, massoud, haqqani, Bin Laden participated by joining azzam, and mainly funneling saudi money to ISI.

- There was no ethnic pushtun group supported by Pakistan (Read US and Pakistan) against the soviets

partly incorrect here, ISI predominantly supported Pashtun factions of Mujhahideens, like hekymetyaar, Haqqanis faction over groups like Ahmed Shah Massoud, when Soviet withdrawal was on the horizon.

- Taliban were not trained in the facilities funded by CIA

Cleverly worded, kudos, Not sure if these were those exact same facilities,
As is often presented is CIA trained Mujhahideen or for that matter taliban, CIA and Saudi's poured in money into Afghan resistance, ISI did the entire training, distribution of funds, logistics. So no, CIA did not, whether those facilities were paid for by CIA or by Saudi cannot be corroborated.

1989 Soviet leave Afghanistan and Pakistan comes up with 100k Taliban just like that who were not part of "Mujahideen" earlier.

No they did not in 89, till 94 there was no taliban, as in earlier post I have mentioned, Taliban allied with pretty much every disenfranchised pashtun tribal leaders and then snowballed when ISI got involved and provided Taliban as an umbrella agency to host fighters from Hizb e islami, haqqanis, jammat e islami (Pakistan volunteers) and aided by PA advisers in the fighting ranks during siege of Kabul, as well as fall of mazar e sharif against Dostum later.