India eyes Israel's Iron Dome to counter Pak, puppets

[500]

Sure , keep buying these expensive toys which can be countered by low cost artillery ...

You think Nasr is low cost artillery?

And since Iron Dome detects fire source, a minute later that launcher will be destroyed. Its not Gaza where you cant fire artillery back in order to not harm civilians.

 

[Secur]

For a minute will one consider that military installations or a forwarding column of mechanized infantry which was once helpless without any Iron Dome will latest have fighting chance.

By a factor of ?

You think Nasr is low cost artillery?

And since Iron Dome detects fire source, a minute later that launcher will be destroyed. Its not Gaza where you cant fire artillery back in order to not harm civilians.

Did I mention Nasr as some low cost artillery ? ... Do you by any chance think that Nasr is some primitive Qassam or Fajr missile which your country faces on the border ?

A minute later , another artillery will destroy the artillery which destroyed the launcher , you are talking about the seventh largest army in the world , the point being ? ... Yes , you rather bomb the civilians with F16's causing hundreds of deaths in the Gaza and West bank , right ?

 

[Ammyy]

You think Nasr is low cost artillery?

And since Iron Dome detects fire source, a minute later that launcher will be destroyed. Its not Gaza where you cant fire artillery back in order to not harm civilians.

Even Article mention same

Indian version of Iron Dome, which is touted as the most effective system against short-range missiles such as Fajr V rockets.

 

[kṣamā]

^

Even if it is capable of distinguishing between a dud/dummy and an actual warhead , Pakistan isn't going to use a dummy to fool the system because it doesn't need to do that , the Pakistani artillery which some of the guys here think consist only of A100's MBRL will fire in thousands and quickly overwhelm the system , there will no several days delay and a few

As I have pointed out b4 its been specifically designed to counter such kind of scenarios. I donn say all targets will be eliminated, a battery can be programmed to protect the high value radars, MLRS, etc. It can be programmed to have just one particular site protected.

So if I was in your shoes, and I find a heavy hitter artillery on the other side but being guarded by Iron Dome, I would put x+5 A100 MLRS to pulverize it , where x is the no of units needed to perform the task if no Iron dome existed. I would provide those Extra 5 units knowing that even if one artillery rocket is taken out in air it reduces one chance to hit the target.

Here is where, Iron Dome plays its card. It can not only detect the artillery position without a launch [Remember detection core is an AESA array. It will find u without even a launch] giving out firing co-ordinates to Indian gunners. But It also dose one more thing, it makes the opposition use a bit more of its resources to do the same task. Again I am pointing out that Unguided projectiles are not a biggie to intercept, given enough physical and computational resources.

 

[Secur]

Here is where, Iron Dome plays its card. It can not only detect the artillery position without a launch [Remember detection core is an AESA array. I will find u without even a launch] giving out firing co-ordinates to Indian gunners. But It also dose one more thing, it makes the opposition use a bit more of its resources to do the same task. Again I am pointing out that Unguided projectiles are not a biggie to intercept, given enough physical and computational resources.

So , you basically agree that Iron Dome will be quickly overwhelmed in theatre level warfare , Pakistan will just require a few more resources to neutralize the advantage of the system ...

Weapon locating radars are common , this isn't something new or exclusive to the said system ... I know they are not difficult to intercept , I am merely questioning the successful intercept probability , the high cost it takes to destroy a relatively cheap artillery shell and quick reaction shortcomings of the system which will be a must in the India-Pakistan border scenario ...

 

[Teeta]

The main component of Iron Dome is advanced AESA artillery radar. In case of border encounter in can very accurately locate sources of hostile artillery for counterbattery fire it can also intercept heavy artillery rockets such as A-100 directed at important installations.

Well that is my point. Deploying Iron Dome against Pakistani artillery will be TOO expensive for India...no?

 

[kṣamā]

Well if u hear what u want to hear, then I can't help you. I am saying what I am saying bcoz few post b4 u wr criticizing that we take everything in "Best case scenario". So even if the ID hits 50% of targets even then I think its doing its job. Remember numerological superiority is not on your side.

Also if we compare hitting a Hamas rocket and Hitting a MLRS rocket, i would say hitting a MLRS rocket would be a piece of cake. Why? Bcoz they are better than Hamas rocket !! So what?? Hence they will follow a perfect trajectory, some better models may have wind correcting algo which make them even better targets. They just keep following the "Known path". Hence easier to calculate path and hence easier to intercept them.

The keyword here is "a". Yes, a Iron Dome system can be overwhelmed but the resources used to do so will seriously put a dent in your inventory. Also without any credible air-defence Indian forces (Artillery) can wreck havoc on the other side. Hence PA instead of using their artillery for offensive action will have to use them for defence.

 

[Secur]

Well if u hear what u want to hear, then I can't help you. I am saying what I am saying bcoz few post b4 u wr criticizing that we take everything in "Best case scenario". So even if the ID hits 50% of targets even then I think its doing its job. Remember numerological superiority is not on your side.

Also if we compare hitting a Hamas rocket and Hitting a MLRS rocket, i would say hitting a MLRS rocket would be a piece of cake. Why? Bcoz they are better than Hamas rocket !!

The keyword here is "a". Yes, a Iron Dome system can be overwhelmed but the resources used to do so will seriously put a dent in your inventory. Also without any credible air-defence Indian forces (Artillery) can wreck havoc on the other side. Hence PA instead of using their artillery for offensive action will have to use them for defence.

You said it yourself , what do I want to hear doesn't matter now ... You spent time writing a whole paragraph how Iron Dome system can be easily overwhelmed with low cost artillery shells ...

Right! Far easier to intercept a modern missile than some home made obsolete rockets ? Of course speed and modern technology doesn't make any difference Wonderful logic !

Pakistan doesn't require that much resources to accomplish the task as you suppose it to be , thousands of artillery shells will be fired from both side , you can assume 50 % successful intercept probability but it hardly matters in the game of thousands - not to mention the extremely cost when compared with low cost artillery shells ... Pakistan army will have to use its artillery for defence just because the adversary possesses Iron Dome ? Give me a break !

 

[kṣamā]

You said it yourself , what do I want to hear doesn't matter now ... You spent time writing a whole paragraph how Iron Dome system can be easily overwhelmed with low cost artillery shells ...

Right! Far easier to intercept a modern missile than some home made obsolete rockets ... Of course speed and modern technology doesn't make any difference Wonderful logic !

Pakistan doesn't require that much resources to accomplish the task as you suppose it to be , thousands of artillery shells will be fired from both side , you can assume 50 % successful intercept probability but it hardly matters in the game of thousands - not to mention the extremely cost when compared with low cost artillery shells ... Pakistan army will have to use its artillery for defence just because the adversary possesses Iron Dome ? Give me a break !

Well now when u say that I understand it, I had been banging a head in wall and expect it to listen to some logic!! And stings the most is I forgot the golden rule "When PAK fires a 9mm bullet it kills an entire battalion, when IND fires an ICBM its just a RAW propagated propaganda !! "


Still I will talk reason to you, every single artillery shell is not a problem, only the few which are sure to hit an asset are. Moreover artillery shells where never accurate and never will be hence not a major concern. Where as MLRS rockets carry a larger warhead can be decently targeted and will be countered by Iron Dome.

Mate I am talking in terms of artillery rockets. Are your generals willing to invest "Thousands" of them [Perfectly targeted ] on Indian Armor when we can just a spend few well targeted rounds to put ur armor to grave.

 

[Secur]

Well now when u say that I understand it, I had been banging a head in wall and expect it to listen to some logic!!

Still I will talk reason to you, every single artillery shell is not a problem, only the few which are sure to hit an asset are. Moreover artillery shells where never accurate and never will be hence not a major concern. Where as MLRS rockets carry a larger warhead can be decently targeted and will be countered by Iron Dome.

Mate I am talking in terms of artillery rockets. Are your generals willing to invest "Thousands" of them [Perfectly targeted ] on Indian Armor when we can just a spend few well targeted rounds to put ur armor to grave.

Nah , you are simply confused , you have disproved your own theory , that's it ...

Of course , it isn't a problem nor all are accurate , that are the basics but genius even the ones that are going to hit the assets are not so less in number to be effectively neutralized by a system that is designed to provide protection against a few primitive missiles that too with serious shortcomings which I have explained above ... The cost-benefit ratio , the quick reaction and the overwhelming of the system are some of the points that can go against Iron Dome ...

Exactly , what would those few well targeted rounds be that can put our armour to grave ?

 

[baqai]

Let them spend bhai their money their business ... while you guys are on a shopping spree might as replace all the cars in India with APC's ... just in case

 

[500]

Well that is my point. Deploying Iron Dome against Pakistani artillery will be TOO expensive for India...no?

Whats expensive about it? Iron Dome calculates the impact point and gives u a choice whether intercept it or not. If you think that damage from the impact will be more than 50$ K, you are launching interceptor, if not - you are not launching.

 

[Teeta]

Whats expensive about it? Iron Dome calculates the impact point and gives u a choice whether intercept it or not. If you think that damage from the impact will be more than 50$ K, you are launching interceptor, if not - you are not launching.

Since when do you have this much time in modern Artillery duels? This whole idea of using Iron Dome against Artillery fire of the enemy in the battle-ground is just insane. Even we won't waste money like that , let alone the Indians.

 

[livingdead]

10 pages (okey did not read beyond first and last) but am really not convinced we need this.
This is very expensive to operate, and very few terrorist inside India can fire rocket.

 

[500]

[/B]

Since when do you have this much time in modern Artillery duels?

You dont need any time. When you set Iron Dome you are telling it: if you see a rocket that is going to fall in this and this area - intercept it, otherwise dont intercept. Thats it.

This whole idea of using Iron Dome against Artillery fire of the enemy in the battle-ground is just insane.

Why do u think that intercepting heavy artillery rockets like M240 MLRS or A-100 Nasr or Fajr-5 is insane?